RunningAHEAD - Topic: So if someone has a faster chip time but does not cross the finish line first who wins?

ty1986

posted: 10/21/2008 at 6:38 PM

I know hypethetically that if you think you are running a race to win you start up front. But what if a runner finishes a race a with a faster chip time but does not cross the finish line first because of a longer gun time. Who wins the race?

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jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 10/21/2008 at 6:41 PM

http://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/5f5e82bab0f4454bb6b0d8e1ed06e22f Discussing a real-life example of this question.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

mrakers

posted: 10/21/2008 at 6:55 PM

Yes, I was surprised about the San Fran incident, especially after what happened at the Country Music Half Marathon this year. An elite crossed the finish line first, and then they found out that a kid from Michigan posted a better time, so they declared him the winner.

AmoresPerros

Options,Account, Forums

posted: 10/21/2008 at 6:56 PM

I missed the start of a race in the spring, so I started about a minute late I think. They posted results -- pieces of paper they put up where people could read them -- by finish order, but then they gave awards by chip time. So I bumped down one guy and bumped one guy out altogether -- I mean, those guys naturally thought they were getting awards, based on the posted results, but one wound up getting a lower award, and the other didn't get one, b/c I got promoted to 2nd in the age group. (I was surprised also, as I'd assumed that the posted results were what was being awarded.) I thought it was sad to have the posted results be misleading in that fashion.

It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 10/21/2008 at 7:02 PM
modified: 10/21/2008 at 7:02 PM

Generally - First across the line wins. This is usually the same as gun time. But in cases when it is not, first finisher wins. Fastest net time (i.e., chip time) wins age groups IF the race director choses to go this route.

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 10/22/2008 at 10:13 AM

Chip time is for individual use only. It is terrible to use it for awards because if the starting line crossings are widely separated you are really running different races -- there is no opportunity to know someone may beat you and kick them down. Strategy is a big part of racing. Incidents like we have started to see happen are a product of these separate elite starts and not a good enough job making sure all potential placers are included in that group. It is an inherent risk of that system. I am unsure why races are going this direction with the men; races as large as Chicago have managed fine for years without it. The rationale with the women is clearer (give them a separate, open elite race away from the sub-elite men) but still just as risky -- or even more so as the competitive depth on the women's side is not as good in most races.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

JimHowe

posted: 10/22/2008 at 11:02 AM

Rather than declare only one winner they should have an "Elite Race" winner and another for the "Citizen's Race" when there are separate starts. I've seen this done on more than one occasion. For someone who ran the course 10 minutes faster than anybody else to be placed 4th is completely ridiculous and grossly unfair. The best way, imo, is to have everyone start together and award placings based on gun time. That's the way all the USATF Grand Prix races are handled in my area, and I think they do it in all other states as well. No system is perfect for larger races, however. It encourages those who are not the fastest runners to push towards the front. I know that if I see an age group rival lined up close to the front row, I'm not going to line up 5 rows back if I can help it. In a normal race with chip timing I don't care, but when it comes to one of the "Series" races I have no conscience. It's every man for himself.

Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

Jim2

posted: 10/22/2008 at 11:10 AM

USATF rules of competition stipulate that order of finish is determined by the order in which the finish line is crossed. IOW, gun time is "official" time. However, not all races apply all USATF rules of competition. Many use net time as "official" and to determine order of finish. Some even use net time to determine award winners. Approximately half of US marathons, especially those with larger fields, use net time and the other half use gun time.

kcam

posted: 10/22/2008 at 11:12 AM

Quote from JimHowe on 10/22/2008 at 11:02 AM:

Rather than declare only one winner they should have an "Elite Race" winner and another for the "Citizen's Race" when there are separate starts. I've seen this done on more than one occasion. For someone who ran the course 10 minutes faster than anybody else to be placed 4th is completely ridiculous and grossly unfair. The best way, imo, is to have everyone start together and award placings based on gun time. That's the way all the USATF Grand Prix races are handled in my area, and I think they do it in all other states as well. No system is perfect for larger races, however. It encourages those who are not the fastest runners to push towards the front. I know that if I see an age group rival lined up close to the front row, I'm not going to line up 5 rows back if I can help it. In a normal race with chip timing I don't care, but when it comes to one of the "Series" races I have no conscience. It's every man for himself.

Jim, you know my opinion on this already! I just posted pretty much this same opinon over on the general running forum. Great minds think alike, eh?

So if someone has a faster chip time but does not cross the finish line first who wins? (Read 624 times)