Barefoot/Minimalist Shoe Running Clinic in Grand Rapids, Michigan (Read 1842 times)

WMRunner


     

    *sigh*...  For real?  Says who?  Ronald McDonald?  This is very disappoinging.

     

    If you really wanted to debate it and/or support your position you could do a lot better than misspelled mockery.  

     

    I'll point out one more thing for you to think about.  If there is so much benefit to running in light shoes, why not run more miles on concrete or pavement and REALLY benefit from learning how to run softly?  Surely that would cause runners to adapt more fully?  Why is it then that people who run high mileage tend to run as much as possible on trails, grass or other soft surfaces?  Do you see the contradiction there?

     

    AmoresPerros


    Options,Account, Forums

       

      I'll point out one more thing for you to think about.  If there is so much benefit to running in light shoes, why not run more miles on concrete or pavement and REALLY benefit from learning how to run softly?  Surely that would cause runners to adapt more fully?  Why is it then that people who run high mileage tend to run as much as possible on trails, grass or other soft surfaces?  Do you see the contradiction there?

       

      I don't see a contradiction. Could you explain the one you see?

       

      (When I was young, I played barefoot, and my soles were toughened by the rocks on the creekbeds. It sounds as though you are saying that my experience could not be true unless I deliberately played almost exclusively on creekbeds. That doesn't sound to me like it makes sense.)

       

      (I don't have a particular opinion in this debate, but certainly enjoy reading opinions & arguments & attempted arguments.)

      It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

      drrbradford


        My two pence:

         

        Twelve months ago I began a progressive reduction of reliance on 'supportive' shoes. I've gone from running in Asics Kayanos to Vibram Five Fingers. My running style has changed monumentally; small steps, almost no vertical oscillation and barely any foot lift. However silly it may look, this Young-shuffle has allowed me to up my miles substantially as well as reducing impact-related soreness after hard sessions. More importantly, running in such thin shoes makes running feel like playtime and I cannot put a price on how much more I enjoy going out on a wee jog now.

         

        From an engineering point of view: I see beauty in the mechanics of the foot and can't comprehend how people (engineers in particular, WMRunner) don't see the problems with thick footwear. Landing on the forefoot allows the calf to act as a spring whereas a heel strike applies much greater pressure (more appropriate to discuss this than force) directly on the knee. Model it with your hand and arm: hit the desk with the heel of your hand and the bone takes all the stresses related with the impact, land on the tips of your fingers and all of the lovely sinews in your hand and forearm deal with theses stresses. It seems so plainly obvious to me and I can't make myself heel strike now no matter what as it feels so cumbersome and inefficient, but I am somewhat biased.

         

        With regards to the earlier discussion of landing forces of two unequally weighted runners, the impulse-momentum must be considered. Barefoot running inherently leads to the impact force being spread over a greater period of time reducing the peak loads for an equal total loading.

         

        From an evolutionary anthropology standpoint: as has been said by many others in this thread, we have only been in structured shoes for a couple of centuries and running shoes were only developed in the last few decades. I'm not going to argue with a product of a process that has led to the stunning hydrodynamic efficiency of  sharks, or the abilities for birds to migrate thousands of miles stopping for days at a time. And I question the arrogance of any man who does. With a nod to this, has anyone, anywhere ever seen or heard of a peer-reviewed article proving that all of these super-duper-springy-turbo-boost-adaptive-technology shoes reduce injury or allow someone to run faster, simply by switching shoes?

         

        May I remind folk that Mr. Bowerman (yes, the founder of that little old shoe company Nike) came up with his first pair of waffle soles on the basis of his hypothesis that if you raised a runner's heel that gravity would propel them forward. Seems he was already a bit messed up in the head before those waffle-iron fumes got into his system.

         

        Finally, so as not to appear a complete zealot I must add that if you've tried slowly reducing the degree of 'support' in your trainers and it doesn't work then stick with shoes. That's fine. Let me just say, that I've been able to run farther, faster and had more fun doing it since I've moved down to barefoot-ish.

        Scout7



           

          Too many runners get caught up in listening to other people's opinions (mine included) without actually trying different things with the intent of experimentation.  In the clinics I teach, one of my guiding principles is the need for experimentation.  If you try barefoot running (or minimalist shoe running) and it diminishes your enjoyment of the sport (through decreased mileage, slower initial speeds, difficulty learning technique, etc.) you have to be prepared to abandon it.  Don't try this because someone convinces you it is a miracle cure-all or God forbid because it is becoming a fad... try it because you you are interested in making tangible improvements.  Just don't have unrealistic expectations. 

           

          It doesn't matter if humans evolved to run long distances or if shoes are a gift from the gods.  It makes an interesting academic argument, but has absolutely no bearing on each of us as individuals.  We seem to get caught up in trying to justify our own decisions.  Who really cares what others do?  I will offer my experiences to add to the pool of knowledge, but there's no expectation that it is superior to any other contributions made by other runners.  Now I'm just rambling....

           

          This post should have ended this debate.

          JimR


             

            This post should have ended this debate.

             

             

              killjoy

              Holy bare feet batman.

               

              Scout7


                 

                 

                  killjoy

                 

                You have no idea.

                Teresadfp


                One day at a time

                  I wish people who posted these wordy dissertations would make their profiles and logs public.  Where do these people COME from??  Are they real?

                     

                    yep, no gloves today.

                     

                    Today I ran on the treadmill in my basement.  No gloves for me today either (until I went out to shovel show, then I put gloves on.)

                    Runners run

                      If you really wanted to debate it and/or support your position you could do a lot better than misspelled mockery.   

                       

                      "This is VERY disappointing"; here's correction just for you.

                       

                      I'll point out one more thing for you to think about.  If there is so much benefit to running in light shoes, why not run more miles on concrete or pavement and REALLY benefit from learning how to run softly?  Surely that would cause runners to adapt more fully?  Why is it then that people who run high mileage tend to run as much as possible on trails, grass or other soft surfaces?  Do you see the contradiction there?

                       

                      The reason why we don't run barefoot (or in minimalist shoes) on concrete ALL THE TIME is because "running softly" is not the sole objective of why we train.  We train to run point A to point B faster.  This is why, while running a long distance is a good thing, that's not the ONLY thing we do day in and day out.  In other words, we don't see things one-dimentional.

                        I don't ever run off road.

                         

                        xor


                          So this thread really isn't specific to Grand Rapids?

                           

                          WMRunner


                             

                            "This is VERY disappointing"; here's correction just for you.

                             

                             

                            The reason why we don't run barefoot (or in minimalist shoes) on concrete ALL THE TIME is because "running softly" is not the sole objective of why we train.  We train to run point A to point B faster.  This is why, while running a long distance is a good thing, that's not the ONLY thing we do day in and day out.  In other words, we don't see things one-dimentional.

                             

                            Ahh!  It's nice to know you can diss with the best of them!

                             

                            And the reason people run on grass or trails is to lessen the shock loading on their legs.  This is also the objective of more cushion in shoes, although as I've said at least TWICE already, this causes as many, if not more problems than it solves.  And as I've also said several times....when one finds a shoe that is comfortable, stick with it.

                             

                            Trent


                            Good Bad & The Monkey

                              Yesterday when I ran, I wore two pair of gloves and two layers.  Today I ran in no gloves and in short sleeves.

                              I wore supportive shoes both days, but my dog was barefoot when I ran with her today.
                              dennrunner


                                Yesterday when I ran, I wore two pair of gloves and two layers.  Today I ran in no gloves and in short sleeves.

                                I wore supportive shoes both days, but my dog was barefoot when I ran with her today.

                                 
                                Shame on you letting your dog run barefoot.


                                MTA:  You have heard of dog trainers haven't you?