running by feel...what did I do wrong? (Read 1495 times)

    Yesterday I went out for a run. It was long run day but I didn't get out of bed early enough to beat the heat so I decided on an early evening run in the 6 to 8 mile range @ an easy pace. It was really warm when I started but I was feeling pretty good (most likely due to reduced miles last week). I set a pace that felt comfortable and off I went. About 4.5 miles in my hamstring (separate issue) started to twinge and I slowed way down and wrapped it up at 5 miles. Here's the problem. When I got home and reviewed my pace and HR, it was clear that I wasn't running easy but had actually ran somewhere between tempo and race pace. My breathing was pretty much what I would expect on a 90+ degree day at any pace and on a hilly run but I didn't feel like I was extending myself. It wasn't until my hammy started hurting at 4.5 miles that I realized I was running too fast (I can usually get at least 8 miles before it starts to tweak). Why would my level of effort feel less on a fast run than other days when it felt like I was really pushing but was, in fact, going slow?
    2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly


    Why is it sideways?

      1. Why was it bad that you ran fast today? How do you know you did something wrong? 2. Pace does not equal effort. 3. Running by feel means learning not only to measure degrees of intensity, but also to determine the meaning of and differentiate between different kinds of intensity. The feeling of fatigue that is associated with running slow on tired legs is very different from the feeling of fatigue at the end of a fast tempo run. 4. Let's see how you feel tomorrow. 5. If you make your log public, it will be even easier to comment.
      jEfFgObLuE


      I've got a fever...

        Here's the problem. When I got home and reviewed my pace and HR, it was clear that I wasn't running easy but had actually ran somewhere between tempo and race pace.
        At a given pace, your heart rate will be much higher in hot weather. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a heart rate monitor is useless in hot weather. So you can pretty much ignore that variable right there.

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

        JakeKnight


          So it was a nice "comfortable" run and you were feeling "pretty good" and you "weren't extending yourself" ... until you checked the machine ... ? And then you decided it was a bad run? Easy solution: kill your heart rate monitor. Go run some races if you want to check your improvement. Or at the very least, if you're going to follow the data that closely, watch for patterns over weeks or months, rather than focusing on single runs.
          Why would my level of effort feel less on a fast run than other days when it felt like I was really pushing but was, in fact, going slow?
          (shrug) I can think of a dozen reasons depending on conditions, diet, training, etc. A fun one: maybe there were pretty girls around? You felt good, ran faster, and your HR was a little elevated. How about a simple one: maybe you just had a good day yesterday? Or how about the best one: maybe you're in better shape than you thought you were? ------------------- And what the Jeff's said. On a 90+ day the HRM is even more useless than usual. And you'll really benefit from making your log public.

          E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
          -----------------------------

          xor


            maybe there were pretty girls around?
            Definitely works for me.

             

              1. Why was it bad that you ran fast today? How do you know you did something wrong?
              It wasn't "bad", it just wasn't what I was intending. My intention was an easy effort.
              2. Pace does not equal effort.
              I'm struggling with this...isn't there some relationship? I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think I was on my race pace for a 5K. I say that and although I've ran several 5K races, I've never ran one where I finished thinking I couldn't run more. There are a couple ways I could interpret that but I don't know which is the "truth". I actually have no idea how to pace myself to race efficiently at middle and long distances.
              3. Running by feel means learning not only to measure degrees of intensity, but also to determine the meaning of and differentiate between different kinds of intensity. The feeling of fatigue that is associated with running slow on tired legs is very different from the feeling of fatigue at the end of a fast tempo run.
              There's a bit of zen in that statement but I think I know what you mean. I find I usually have more energy after a fast tempo run and it's a good sore/tired/fatigued feeling (not always but more often than not). Long, slow runs on tired legs feel like death and usually mean I won't be doing anything else that day.
              4. Let's see how you feel tomorrow.
              I feel great today. Today would normally be a day off but I'm hoping to get out tonight.
              5. If you make your log public, it will be even easier to comment.
              I haven't been tracking my running here, which is why my log isn't public. Since we moved three weeks ago, I don't even know where the cradle for my 305 is. I've been so busy with projects around the house that I barely have time to run, much less track anything. I spend my time on here during the day when I'm at my desk. I am going to try and start logging though.
              2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly
                Definitely works for me.
                Actually, I was running someone down for a big part of the run. For some reason, I love to try and overtake people. It helps to keep me distracted and gives me something to do. And for everyone that is talking about HR...I was really focused more on my avg pace than my HR. I glanced at the HR but since it was hot I didn't pay much attention to it. I don't think I've had a good day since May and I haven't had a good hot run this season. It's funny but it's been so long that it never even cross my mind. That's positive thinking for you... Oh, and lest I lose sight of my original thought...I was setting out to do an easy run. Feeling good at tempo pace is great but I either need to adjust my thinking on my tempo pace or get better at reading my body.
                2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly


                Why is it sideways?

                  I don't think I've had a good day since May and I haven't had a good hot run this season. It's funny but it's been so long that it never even cross my mind. That's positive thinking for you...
                  You were due for a good one. When the running gods smile on you, don't argue with them. Just run, baby.
                  jEfFgObLuE


                  I've got a fever...

                    Actually, I was running someone down for a big part of the run. For some reason, I love to try and overtake people. It helps to keep me distracted and gives me something to do..
                    I love running people down, too. In races. If it felt good to run the guy down, more power to you. Just don't be surprised if an "easy" run was faster than you expected if you were doing that. I sometimes run people down in training. But if I truly need an easy day, a day of recovery, I force myself ignore other runners so that I don't go too fast.

                    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                    xor


                      Actually, I was running someone down for a big part of the run. For some reason, I love to try and overtake people. It helps to keep me distracted and gives me something to do. ... I was setting out to do an easy run. Feeling good at tempo pace is great but I either need to adjust my thinking on my tempo pace or get better at reading my body.
                      I think you need to remind yourself that your workout goal was 'easy run' when you started trying to run down someone else. Racing during an easy run are generally two incompatible ideas. Edited to add: BTW, there's the most likely answer to your original question. It felt easier than a typical faster day because you were distracted by trying to run down other people. I have a much harder time doing a tempo run by myself than I do when I have a rabbit to chase. Which is one reason why I sometimes try to do them w/o a rabbit. In smaller marathons, I might not have a rabbit. Or a carrot.

                       

                        I love running people down, too. In races. If it felt good to run the guy down, more power to you. Just don't be surprised if an "easy" run was faster than you expected if you were doing that.
                        Oh, it backfires all the time and I've ruined more training runs that way than I want to admit. I'm not fast and it often backfires. I have actually been really good about making my run about me and not the environment all spring and summer and not let myself get caught up in a chase. I guess since I'd blown my long run off I sort of let go of the rules a bit.
                        2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly
                          . It was really warm when I started but I was feeling pretty good (most likely due to reduced miles last week).
                          Maybe you went too fast because you were feeling rested from a low mileage week. I don't think it matters that much. You do not need to do an easy day if you already have lowered your weekly mileage. It looks like you are a very good warm weather runner. Next time you get a hot day during a race you will feel pretty confident.


                          Why is it sideways?

                            On easy pace, courtesy of obsessor:
                            But I guess it all boils down to personal experience. It took me about 10,000miles to really learn what an "easy" pace was, and it took another 10,000 miles to learn learn a training formula that worked for me. That's experience. Miles are experience. Miles over all kinds of intensity and terrain. That's why so many experienced runners sound like a broken record, and say, "run more." You want a shortcut? Pick better parents, stick to short distances, and take some sort of expensive medical aid - whatever's in style. Right, so. You want to learn to pace? Run on the track with a stopwatch. Only look at the time once a lap. That will teach you something. You want to learn control? - how to mete out your effort? Race. It took me about 40 5k races to figure it out, and even now, I flub 4 out of five. I figure hitting it 1 out of ten times is good. You don't need to wear a watch to race - I have gone both ways and it does nothing for me. If you race frequently and spend some time on the track, and run a lot, you are intimately aware of the pain associated with the sum of your steps to that point in the race. I'd have you ditch the watch and hRM and gps, and all that crap for your easy runs. You don't know what the word "easy" means? Well - go run a 140 mile week out of the blue, and you will learn by about Tuesday. People who say they don't know easy (and I was one, and sometimes I still am...) It's a lack of experience. You need to poke those limits, as Tusca and Jim have - then you know what you can do. And me, too. I'm an idiot sometimes. Running is humbling.
                              On easy pace, courtesy of obsessor:
                              I completely agree that running is all about experience but experience is a cruel mistress for those of us that picked up this crazy obsession in our mid-30's and beyond. Most of our initial inclinations are likely to do us more harm than good and most of us aren't patient enough to let the results come slowly over time. The only real training I've ever done in my life was in HS and college (for sports other than running) and it tended to be 100% effort, 100% of the time. That mentality doesn't transfer to run AT ALL.
                              2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly


                              Why is it sideways?

                                If you want to be more extreme in your training, by all means go for it. But there are two ways towards being extreme. One is to push the pace; the other is to push the mileage: to run more frequently and longer. The second is a surer path to success.