Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition
DW solid race and nice RR.
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)
Keen That's close enough to a correct distance for a new PR IMO.
Piwi Yes prizes were all engraves & painted on stones and third place prizes were on bricks.
Agree with Watson, the people I know with breakthrough cases were basically mostly over it in 3 days. The vaccines now have full FDA approval in the US so I really don't understand the hesitancy to get one, but I never did prior to full approval either so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
Intl. correspondent
Zeb - as others alluded, you’ve been racing quite often too, other than the cold maybe the well was empty.
Keen - Yeah, I forgot to mention eggs, they’re there almost everyday.
I was reading your RR and laughing, I have quite a lot of gray hair, this 55 year old dude once asked me which age group I was cause he thought I was on the same as his 😂, I've noticed you and Zeb have almost no gray hair, so I guess great genetics on your end seeing as we're of similar age.
Your 10k was legit. You def have a faster 10k.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Corey good work. 25 miles is just ahead of hobby jogger status
Flavio I eat a few eggs. We have chickens so we get about 3 per day and they start to fill the fridge up.
Grey hair is one of those things that instantly labels you as old although some people go grey quite early. Usually jet black hair can be prone to that. I remember at school some kids with the odd grey hair. My FIL has black curly hair and still mostly black at 70.
It's weird when you first start going grey and go for a haircut and see all this white hair on the floor.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Cobra Commander Keen
Zebano - As just a guess and with politics completely aside, I'd say the hesitancy is that there's no long-term studies on the vaccines at all (covid 19 vaccines simply haven't existed long enough for that, and prior mRNA didn't exactly turn out well). Breadth of study (how many people participate) and length of said study are very different matters.
Flavio - I'm getting more and more grey hair around my temples. Reminding my wife that I didn't have any grey hair when we met (I was 24) and that there's a causal linkage between the two is a favorite past time. In the words of my grandfather, "I don't mind the hair that turns grey, it's the ones that turn loose that I don't care for".
Piwi - From my limited observational experience I'd agree with you on the early grey/black hair thing. The only person I've ever known with jet black hair was a guy I went to school with from pre-school through HS graduation. He went from black hair at 20 to being completely grey before he was 22.
Alright, I guess I'll claim the 10k PR. It's doubtful, but maybe I'll get to race another this year in better conditions. Felt like garbage on my run today. I'm wondering if I was somehow under-hydrated, so I'm skipping a (optional) double) today and making sure to hydrate ahead of a workout tomorrow.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Yeah I knew I was edging toward politics there so I'll just leave it alone.
If anyone hasn't been keeping up on super shoes: someone at Stephen F Austin University got a dozen sub 17:30 5k guys and had them try on 8 different shoes (7 of them "super shoes"). Looks like Nike is still ahead of their competitors with the VaporFly and Alphafly showing the most improvement in running economy, followed closely by the the Metaspeed Sky.
https://scholarworks.sfasu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=kinesiology
p.s. I'm starting to get the random gray hair here and there so I don't know how long I'll be able to look young but I had a buddy in college that went totally bald and grey by the time he had his degree.
p.p.s. the most interesting part of the study is the characterization of the "high-responders" versus the "lower-responders". The higher cadence and low vertical oscillation (i.e. naturally high Running Economy) you have the less you get from super-shoes. The lower your cadence, the more effective the super-shoes are for you.
p.p.p.s Flavio - yes the well may have been empty. It's really hard to quantify the effect of all the recent work versus the sickness, or maybe I overdid it and got sick because I was run down. Who knows.
Hot Weather Complainer
Personally I find any time people try to religiously push something and insult anyone who hesitates, it brings out my stubborn side...having said that, finally got my first shot on Monday with no issues except minor shoulder soreness. Still managed to lift weights yesterday though, possibly because I took darkwave's advice to keep rotating my shoulder post shot. On the hesitancy, there were certain US politicians in 2020 who said they wouldn't trust any vaccine developed under the president of the time which no doubt didn't help.
I was due a haircut on the first weekend of lockdown which has been pushed back 4 weeks...it is now much longer than I like especially now I see some grey hairs. Thankfully I'm able to get it on Friday and I can resume my regular massage today too.
I nailed a tempo workout this morning, and felt really comfortable continuing the trend of good workouts on Wednesday and struggle street on Saturday. I've added a Friday run this year (during marathon training) so I wonder if that has a minor impact on Saturday.
Mark - I see the Frontrunner is now the principle sponsor for the Christchurch Marathon. It's great that Oska is putting his money where his mouth is although it's interesting that this has occurred after what sounds like years of putting pressure on the Race Director to change the date. Not that I'm cynical. To his credit, he's also saved the Selwyn Running Festival which looked like it was going to go under without a new sponsor.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Zebano - funnily I actually tested out a pair of the NB Fuelcell TC's yesterday that I picked up cheaply. They were definitely good but not as good as the Vaporfly's which just seem to provide a bit more bounce-back. I ran a pretty solid tempo yesterday and backed it up today with some VO2Max work, my legs definitely felt pretty fresh so I guess the Fuelcell's also result in significantly less recovery time like the Vaporflies.
Steve - yeah I hear you especially with the current mob in government, and particularly given the amount of vaccine virtue-signalling on social media. But the scientific evidence is pretty compelling (apart from Keen's question about long-term impacts). Anyway I had the same lack-of-haircut issue as you during last year's first lockdown, that was when my wife starting shaving my head. The tradition has stuck, I like the low maintenance factor.
And yeah... sounds like a quid pro quo for sure with the Christchurch Marathon sponsorship. I mean, it's good news, as sponsorship is key to these events happening and there aren't a heap of organisations around that are prepared to front up, particularly when it looks like big historical sponsors like ASB are pulling back a little (they used to sponsor Kerikeri and Christchurch too but looks like they've decided to focus just on Auckland). But yeah, it does smack a bit of buying his preferred race date.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
The NB TCs are advertized as a training shoe. So you wouldn't expect it to be as quick.
A few comments on the study:
- There were no woman.
- The men were pretty quick.
- I do wonder whether there needs to be a fatigue factor included somehow. When form breaks down, are some shoes more forgiving than others.
- The Adizero Pro v1 or v2 should have been in the study, as that's having some big results in big marathons.
Sample size of one, but this runner has the SEP and the Next % the same:
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/running/malindi-elmore-shoe-test-vaporflys-saucony/
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Also the individual variances, looking at the graphs some runners were much better in the Next v Alpha, and some vice versa.
The NB TCs are advertized as a training shoe. So you wouldn't expect it to be as quick. A few comments on the study: - There were no woman. - The men were pretty quick. - I do wonder whether there needs to be a fatigue factor included somehow. When form breaks down, are some shoes more forgiving than others. - The Adizero Pro v1 or v2 should have been in the study, as that's having some big results in big marathons. Sample size of one, but this runner has the SEP and the Next % the same: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/running/malindi-elmore-shoe-test-vaporflys-saucony/
Yeah I too wondered both about women and about slower runners. I personally was really happy that they chose to feature fast amateurs rather than say using a college XC team. The fatigue factor is an interesting thought that I believe they tried to deal with by reversing the order in which the shoes were tried on in the two session though I would think 4& 5th place will be markedly non-different while 1st & 8th may be. I couldn't figure out how they were addressing that in the stats (it's been a long long time since my college stats course). I did note that they confirmed everyone was running at sub-LT levels by drawing blood so you'd think there wouldn't be that much degradation of form at "easy" paces. Finally they compared VO2 levels at 4 minutes into each run compared to 5 minutes in and there was virtually no difference .... maybe they should have checked things like foot balance, cadence and vertical oscillation between the two as a measure of form degradation?
I read the link you provided awhile back and it certainly seems that individual response to any particular shoe is high but they don't have concrete ideas on how to choose which is best for you though they imply choosing the bounciest shoe or the one you would choose to marathon in correlates well.
Personally I own SEP just because they were considerably cheaper than the other super-shoes and I feel faster in them than in my normal shoes, so that's good enough for me. OTOH I feel like they beat up my calves a bit more.
edit: I'm not really sure I addressed your point about fatigue. How a shoe performs for you at mile 3 of a marathon versus mile 20 is an important question.
Zebano - Interesting study. In particular I do like the part about lower cadence runners getting a better boost, as that's quite relevant to me. My average running cadence for all runs from March (bottom) through today in September (top):
I do wish they had used "vertical ratio" instead of vertical oscillation and stride length separately (vertical ratio is the comparison of the previous two metrics together) as it's known that taller runners (like me) tend to have lower cadences and longer stride lengths than do shorter runners. Using verical ratio would have put this on a more level field for comparison.
I do think it would be interesting to try out a mile or two in each pair of super shoes on a measured course and use stryd to figure out what the wattage differences for the paces are between all of them. Not that I expect a running store to just let me try out $1,000 worth of running shoes over the course of an hour or so.
RIP Milkman
Came to comment on the shoe link as I found it very interesting. This is an important point for me: the super shoes don't really matter in my opinion until you're very tired. I notice the benefit of the VF the most when I'm going uphill late in a race. Yes, I feel terrible as always, but it's something different when you're wearing those shoes vs. normal shoes.
On the vaccine, I'd say you can make the same "long term" argument with COVID itself. We don't know what the long term impact is there given nobody is more than 2 years out with it. I'd also make the running argument more than anything for this forum: if you get COVID without the vaccine, you're probably out for at least a week in running if not worse. I had pneumonia during my first marathon cycle and it crushed my training. Could barely run 3 miles after 2 weeks off because my lungs were so weak.
I'm glad you guys are getting the shots, NZ isn't going to be able to keep a COVID zero policy forever as this virus is not going away in our lifetimes.
Keen - definitely count the PR if everyone came up above 6.22. You know how annoying I am about certified courses, but this one looks good
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Problem Child
I'd also make the running argument more than anything for this forum: if you get COVID without the vaccine, you're probably out for at least a week in running if not worse. I had pneumonia during my first marathon cycle and it crushed my training. Could barely run 3 miles after 2 weeks off because my lungs were so weak. I'm glad you guys are getting the shots, NZ isn't going to be able to keep a COVID zero policy forever as this virus is not going away in our lifetimes. Keen - definitely count the PR if everyone came up above 6.22. You know how annoying I am about certified courses, but this one looks good
I'd also make the running argument more than anything for this forum: if you get COVID without the vaccine, you're probably out for at least a week in running if not worse. I had pneumonia during my first marathon cycle and it crushed my training. Could barely run 3 miles after 2 weeks off because my lungs were so weak.
This is why I literally stay home and stay safe. Only people I hang out are either married to me or biologcally related to me and I've shared a home with them for at least the past 6 months.
Dwave Nice race report. I'm slightly shocked you couldn't remember MORE about the mile, but I'm also REALLY wordy with my stories/reports. I agree with the lactate build up, and you're probably 100% correct about the experience of slower runners at this same race. It probably would have been different if they had separate mens/womans heats. Also....being nice to almost ANYONE is a good experience. I was nice to a woman at the DMV and she went from "no we can't do that here" to "oh you have literally everythign okay" to "i'll go look for that semi-custom randomized assortment of letters for your license plate simply because you asked."
Australia/New Zealand how are your lockdown(s) going? I don't trust anyone other than the people here to tell me the truth about things. Much like Dwave asking about traveling to New York and what it requires, or what the air is like due to Caldor or Dixie fires in the Great state of California. Like...is it really so bad someone woudn't want to live on a beach anymore?
Gray hair I tell my wife I didn't have any before her and if I did the woman I was with was kind enough not to point it out.
Keen Good on you for not being tempted to out kick the high school athlete and crush his soul even more by taking a second lap. Much more insulting to pass someone only to find out they're halfway done. Also, good job showing off for the girls on the sidelines with the dad style water bottle behind the back trick. Ever find out who the old guy with gray hair was? Did you ask him for his Strava? I think 6.3 is a fair enough distance for a 10K to claim it as a PR. Just DON'T GET SICK BEFORE YOUR MARATHON!
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I couldn't quite bring myself to read all 28 pages of that report but the Next % certainly leave your legs fresh and give you some extra bounce. I did find at 5k pace my cadence was a bit too fast for them to really benefit me and would agree that slower cadence runners will get more from the bounce.
RP most of NZ is in level 2 and only had 2 weeks in level 4 so it's mostly back to normal for us.
Auckland however which has 1/4 of the population has been in level 4 for about 4 weeks now and businesses are finding it very tough. The government has wage subsidy and business expense subsidies but they are not enough.
The infections are staying fairly low each day but the real push is for the vaccine rate to get to a high point 70 or 80 % etc. The government purchased a whole lot of Pfizer from Spain to give us enough now to complete the job.
My work has been fairly quiet since moving into level 2. Building projects are back a few weeks now and I think generally people are a little scared and holding onto their money until we become more confident of no more lockdowns.