Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition (Read 448 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Are they the v1 or v2?  I just looked and they gave the v2 on a very good sale price.  I guess with Australia mainly in lockdown of some sort, selling race shoes are hard hence the sale price.

     

    V2.  They're running a sale on a few of the Saucony shoes.

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

    Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    Marky_Mark_17


      Another solid week of training in the bag.  September ended up being my biggest month of the year as well as the fastest average pace, despite having a ton more elevation than normal due to doing runs from home.  Definitely time for a recovery week though as the legs were starting to feel a little tired towards the end of the week.  Not giving myself a lot of chance of Nelson Half happening in 5 weeks time but you never know.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 27/09/2021 To 03/10/2021

      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in m
      27/09 That run where the darkness is back, and apparently so are the cars 5.08 8.17 00:36:24 07:10 04:27 111
      28/09 That run where hill repeats at the end of a workout are like brussel sprouts 10.01 16.11 01:02:36 06:15 03:53 163
      29/09 That run with park laps and stadium laps 9.55 15.37 01:04:49 06:47 04:13 146
      30/09 That run where we should just #freetheshore already 9.33 15.01 00:59:49 06:25 03:59 103
      02/10 That run which was not National Road Relays 8.74 14.06 00:53:35 06:08 03:49 140
      03/10 That run with another solid week of training for races that may or may not exist 13.74 22.11 01:38:09 07:09 04:26 235

      Total distance: 90.83km

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

      Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        Mark - Another great week, if you ever get to race on this block of training you'll smash it.

         

        me - Slightly lighter week as I began the optimistic taper for the Wellington Half.  I did have a great workout on Wednesday among the easier stuff.  I'm feeling very ready for a good race.

         

        A week ago I thought the chances of Wellington had improved to about 50-50 with the chance that Auckland would drop to level 2 with a border, allowing the rest of NZ to go to level 1.  The case numbers from Wednesday on, including some cases outside Auckland, have reduced the chance to about 1%.  It's only that high because a complete reversal of policy is an outside chance.  But very unlikely.  So it's 5 weeks until Dunedin or Selwyn, one of which will surely go ahead.  7 weeks until Queenstown which isn't a PB course and if I do it off 13 days rest will have to be a pretty cautious pace.

         

        Weekly for period: From: 27/09/2021 To 03/10/2021

        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in m
        27/09 Warm up 0.28 0.45 00:02:51 10:11 06:20 0
        27/09 70 mins easy pace 9.01 14.50 01:10:36 07:50 04:52 20
        29/09 Warm up 0.28 0.45 00:02:48 10:00 06:13 0
        29/09 70 mins incl. 10km tempo (42:01) 9.99 16.07 01:10:56 07:06 04:25 16
        30/09 Recovery 5.53 8.89 00:47:29 08:35 05:20 18
        01/10 Warm up 0.28 0.45 00:02:46 09:53 06:09 0
        01/10 Easy 8km 5.07 8.16 00:40:07 07:55 04:55 12
        02/10 Warm up 0.29 0.46 00:02:46 09:32 06:01 0
        02/10 90 mins easy pace 11.39 18.32 01:30:18 07:56 04:56 19
        03/10 Recovery 5.04 8.11 00:44:37 08:51 05:30 12

        Total distance: 75.87km

        5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

         

        2024 Races:

        Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

        Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

        Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

        Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

        watsonc123


          Mark and Steve - nice weeks.

           

          My week was good.  Highest weekly distance this year by quite a bit.  And most total minutes by 8 minutes (that other week had much less km with much more elevation).

           

          Saturday was our clubs end of season refreshment run, which is basically a pub run.  So including running there, and home was 20.9km, with the last run having some walking due to "hitting the wall" plus parts being very dark.

           

          Today's long run was also good.

           

          Weekly for period: From: 27/09/2021 To 03/10/2021

          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
          in m
          27/09 Evening Run 4.37 7.03 00:37:56 08:41 05:24 11
          28/09 Evening Run 3.03 4.88 00:25:33 08:26 05:14 6
          29/09 Evening Run - Incl. 20 * (1:00 Quickish & 1:00 Easy) Intervals 7.28 11.71 00:54:29 07:29 04:39 17
          30/09 Evening Run 4.35 7.00 00:33:16 07:39 04:45 9
          01/10 Afternoon Run - Steady Pace 3.0-13.0km 9.31 14.97 01:09:01 07:25 04:37 45
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - To Club Room 2.35 3.79 00:21:48 09:17 05:45 3
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 1 4.62 7.43 00:44:40 09:40 06:01 44
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 2 1.62 2.61 00:15:41 09:41 06:01 2
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 3 0.49 0.80 00:04:41 09:33 05:51 0
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 4 0.47 0.75 00:04:50 10:17 06:27 10
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 5 0.13 0.21 00:01:10 08:58 05:33 3
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Leg 6 1.82 2.92 00:17:33 09:39 06:01 0
          02/10 Trentham Harriers Refreshment Run - Home 1.59 2.56 00:20:07 12:39 07:51 9
          03/10 Afternoon Run - Incl. 3 * (5km Steady & 1km Easy). GPS Got Lost With 1.5km To Go. 13.78 22.17 01:44:19 07:34 04:42 75
          03/10 Afternoon Run - Last 1.5km (GPS Got Lost) 0.93 1.50 00:08:02 08:38 05:21 5

          Total distance: 90.32km

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

           

          2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

           

          2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

          flavio80


          Intl. correspondent

            Mark and Steve - nice weeks, ordinary weeks like these are the best ones.

             

            Watson - after having seen you stuffer for months with that injury it's so nice to see you back with the big weeks again.

             

            My week below. All was well until I got my second moderna shot on Friday morning.

            Got a very strong reaction, just now I'm starting to feel normal.

            Wife had no reaction apart from the sore arm 🤷‍♂️

            Weekly for period: From: 27/09/2021 To 03/10/2021

            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
            in m
            28/09 9 + 6x30s strides 9.53 15.33 01:15:51 07:58 04:57 41
            29/09 Morning Run 8.10 13.04 01:05:17 08:04 05:00 21
            30/09 6x (1 mile@6:15-6:20 + 2' rest) 11.28 18.15 01:23:49 07:26 04:37 30
            01/10 Morning Run 7.01 11.27 00:56:16 08:02 05:00 45
            03/10 Planned 14 miles but still feeling weak from the 2nd vax shot reaction 10.30 16.58 01:24:08 08:10 05:04 30

            Total distance: 74.38km

            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

            Up next: no idea

            Tool to generate Strava weekly

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              "Hill repeats are like brussels sprouts."  Agree, and I would add 200m repeats to that.  And drills/strides.

               

              Steve - I know it doesn't look good, but my fingers are crossed.

               

              Watson - I'm impressed you had a good Sunday long run after the pub run the day before.

               

              Flavio - nice workout on Thursday.

               

              ***

               

              My week:

              52 miles running, 4.5 hours pool-running, and 1000 yards swimming.

              M: 80 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga
              T: 7.5 miles very easy (9:36), then upper body weights/core, followed by 3.5 miles very easy (9:07), drills, two hill strides, two flat strides.
              W: 12 miles, including a workout of 3x2 miles at half-marathon effort in 13:23 (6:39/6:45), 13:13 (6:36/6:37) and 13:20 (6:39/6:41). About 5 minutes recovery between each.
              Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
              Th: 1:40 hours pool-running and streaming yoga.
              F: 8 miles very easy on treadmill (9:29), then upper body weights/core and 4 miles very easy outside (9:10) plus drills and four strides
              Sa: 17 miles, including a workout of 3x3 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile float, plus 1 mile harder. Splits were 21:35 (7:13 pace), 21:21 (7:07 pace), 20:51 (6:57 pace) and then 6:31. Floats ranged between 8:01 and 8:10. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
              Su: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.

               

              Decided this week to switch from the full marathon to the half marathon at Indy in 5 weeks.  I'm not where I want to be 5 weeks out from a full marathon, but I think I can convert what was a marathon training cycle to a very effective half-marathon cycle.  So that's what I'm doing.  So now I have a) Columbus half-marathon 2 weeks from today; b) Indy Monumental half-marathon 5 weeks from yesterday, and then c) a turkey trot in late November.  Then I'll take a break before building for a spring marathon.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Marky_Mark_17


                Watson - some of the guys near me used to do a pub marathon every year around Nov / Dec with 7 or 8 pub stops.  Good week.

                 

                Steve - you're exactly where I was around early September last year!  At that stage Rotorua Marathon was possible but iffy, so I had Wairarapa as Plan C.  Key thing is you've got contingency plans!

                 

                Flavio - haha it was the opposite in our house.  I had only a weak reaction to the second vaccine, bit of a headache the next day.  My wife was in bed for a day though with fever etc, disappeared pretty quickly after that though.  Anyway well done for still logging a solid week despite that disruption.

                 

                Darkwave - with 5 weeks to go I think it's a great time to make that call.  How will you modify your training for a half vs. a full?

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  Watson - some of the guys near me used to do a pub marathon every year around Nov / Dec with 7 or 8 pub stops.  Good week.

                   

                  Steve - you're exactly where I was around early September last year!  At that stage Rotorua Marathon was possible but iffy, so I had Wairarapa as Plan C.  Key thing is you've got contingency plans!

                   

                  Flavio - haha it was the opposite in our house.  I had only a weak reaction to the second vaccine, bit of a headache the next day.  My wife was in bed for a day though with fever etc, disappeared pretty quickly after that though.  Anyway well done for still logging a solid week despite that disruption.

                   

                  Darkwave - with 5 weeks to go I think it's a great time to make that call.  How will you modify your training for a half vs. a full?

                   

                  Plan originally was 20 this weekend, Columbus Half next weekend.  Then 16 mile long run, 12 mile run, and full marathon.

                   

                  Instead, I'll skip the 20 next weekend (and do a 5 mile tempo on Friday instead), and come into Columbus fresher.  Recover from Columbus, do another week or two of intervals and tempos, and run Indy half.

                   

                  I'll end up with two half-marathons 3 weeks apart, which is close but doable.  And hopefully the fitness gains from the first will assist in the second.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    Also, big ups to RP for his 10km race!

                     

                    Don't think anyone could put it better than Piwi who pointed out on Strava that the guy who was unsure about breaking 20 minutes for a 5k has managed to break it twice back-to-back!  Awesome job.

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                    Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      Also, big ups to RP for his 10km race!

                       

                      Don't think anyone could put it better than Piwi who pointed out on Strava that the guy who was unsure about breaking 20 minutes for a 5k has managed to break it twice back-to-back!  Awesome job.

                       

                      Missed that on Strava - just saw.  That's awesome!

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        Steve - depending how things pan out, another option to consider is The Agency Group 10,000m on Sat Nov 13 in Wellington.  If Covid restrictions mean that other races fall by the wayside, I will seriously consider this one as it's a pretty good shot of going ahead at Level 2.  I did it a couple of years ago and ran a PB at the time, it's a fun and well-run event.

                         

                        It might be a bit close to Queenstown if that goes ahead but worth keeping on your radar just in case.

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                        Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Flavio - That sucks that the second shot impacted your taper week.  Race week!  What are your travel plans for the race?

                           

                          Watson - Great to see you logging such a big week again.

                           

                          Mark - Still no confirmation from Selwyn that they have the go ahead at level 2, but if they do that will be only race option this year I think so I doubt I'll risk a 10,000 on beaten up legs...but if that's the only option I'll definitely look at it.  It's possible level 2 drags on long enough to take out Dunedin and Queenstown.  A 9am race in Canterbury in November has the risk of hot weather but a decent chance it will be cool too.  I guess I've accepted no Wellington at this point.  It seems that the opposition parties releasing their plans have finally pushed the govt to actually do some planning but I expect to underwhelmed in a couple of hours.

                          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                           

                          2024 Races:

                          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                          Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                          Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                          Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                          JamesD


                          JamesD

                            RP - Congrats!  Looking forward to the RR.

                             

                            Keen - Please post this race result.  Goal was 19:40.  Thanks.

                             

                            Race Report - Mogadishu Mile 5K, Saturday Oct. 2

                             

                            (long report, but this was an unusual race & I thought the local color might be interesting)

                             

                            This downtown race commemorates a mile-long run under fire by Army Rangers -- who train at the large Army base south of town -- in Somalia in 1993 that was featured in the movie Black Hawk Down.  Many of the runners are Rangers or other soldiers or retired soldiers, and many Rangers run in full 35-pound body armor.  (One in body armor beat me when I ran it 5 years ago, finishing in 19:3x.)  The race has grown a lot since 2016, and I was concerned that with 1,100 participants, many of whom are not regular racers, starting on a 3-lane road with a sharp turn after 3 blocks, there would be plenty of potential to trip and be trampled, especially since I don’t start at top speed.  Because running in crowds makes it harder to see & avoid potholes, railroad tracks, curbs, etc., I drove and walked the first half of the course the day before.  

                             

                            With a 6PM start and afternoon highs around 85/29, I decided I didn’t need as long a shakeout run as I do for morning races.  I drove to the park where I usually run and did 1-1/2 miles, figuring the park’s shade and dirt would be better than downtown sun & asphalt.  Then I drove back home, rested a while, and jogged the three blocks to the start, where I did my strides.  I had allowed too much time to get to & from the park, and I wound up finishing my shakeout and my strides early, and then the race started 15 minutes late because of all the late arrivals and late registrations.

                             

                            The starting line wasn’t marked, and hundreds of runners milled about in the middle of the street for a long time.  The temperature was 82/27 with TDP 146, so warm but not impossible for a 5K.  There were about 400 soldiers in body armor, 100 people pushing strollers, several soldiers with dogs, and 600 others.  At the start, people with strollers were at the front of about half of the street, about 3 or 4 deep.  The rest of the front included a serious-looking little boy, me, an Army retiree who looked to be in his 70s, and a Ranger running with body armor and a large automatic gun with wrapping around some of its parts that I hoped meant it wouldn’t go off.  Lots of soldiers in body armor were immediately behind us.  With all that, I figured there was a pretty good chance of problems of some kind.

                             

                            After the national anthem, an explanation of the history of the Mogadishu Mile, introduction of a veteran who had fought in it, chanting of the Ranger Creed, and remarks by a Ranger commander, without warning the RD blew his horn to start the race.  I got off to a steady start and was surprised not to be in a crowd.  It may be that many runners hadn’t realized that the horn signalled the start.  Also, the strollers probably blocked some people from sprinting out, and the body-armor-wearing Rangers probably blocked others, as I suppose it’s hard to accelerate quickly when you’re carrying an extra 35 pounds.  The little boy got out well ahead of me, and he didn’t slow down for a while, so no complaints.  (The results showed an 8-year-old finishing in 23 minutes; if that was him, he was legit and probably safer starting in front.)

                             

                            After 3 blocks, we turned right.  A couple of times in the first half-mile, fit young runners zipped past me, I assume after battling through congestion at the start.  A handful of soldiers with strollers or wearing body armor were ahead of me.  One soldier in front of me, without slowing, bent down to pick up a bottle his daughter had tossed and nearly flipped the stroller.  Around half a mile in, a high-school-aged guy and I and a stroller-pushing Ranger were close to each other but had not settled into steady paces, and as we moved back and forth to figure out who was going to pass whom, I grazed the high schooler’s shoe from behind, but neither of us lost our balance.  I gradually passed most of the Rangers in body armor and pushing strollers and a few other runners.  After a mile, we turned right and ran four blocks down a moderate slope, then turned left for a block on an 1800s brick road in our historic district.  Then we hopped a curb and ran on a sidewalk around the city baseball stadium.  I told a stroller-pushing soldier ahead of me to stay right when crossing an upcoming set of railroad tracks because there was a hole in the middle.  Since I knew he would go right, I passed him on the left of the hole where there was enough space for me.  I then decided that I was probably doing ok if I could say all that without gasping.

                             

                            We went down a ramp, on which I passed someone, and took a U-turn onto a bike path alongside the river that divides Georgia and Alabama.  Coming back towards downtown I gradually caught and passed a few more people including the lead woman.  As usual, I was trying to keep a constant speed and only speed up in order to pass.  There were no mile markers on the course, but the online map had them, and I remembered that the two-mile mark was when we crossed under a bridge.  My watch showed 12:02; even taking into account that the course had been net downhill and would soon go up, that was faster than I had expected, and I figured I had a good shot at going under 19:40 and getting an 80% age grade.  I tried to stay strong and even passed another person or two, but when the course left the bike path and went uphill, I slowed.  As I was trying to hang on, two runners passed me, which almost never happens late in 5Ks.  I held on as well as I could for two blocks along the street we live on and turned right and ran one more block to the finish.

                             

                            My time was 19:15, only 3 seconds off my grownup PR from 2017.  This was the first time in over a year that my lungs had hurt after a race, and I went deeper in the well than I had in a long while.  Finished 12th overall and 2nd master.  I beat everyone wearing body armor, but one Ranger pushing a stroller (with two children no less) finished in the 18s.  The time age-graded to 81.75%, the first time I’ve broken 80, which was one of my goals for the year.

                             

                            As for takeaways, it seems like the heat didn't hurt and the late afternoon start helped a lot.  Six weeks ago I ran 32 seconds slower on an easier course in the morning, and the time of day was the most obvious difference.  Having people to run with nearly all the way helped too, and the earlier race probably knocked off some rust and helped me push harder.  Doing my shakeout earlier than usual and having almost half an hour between finishing my strides and the start didn’t seem to hurt.  The most encouraging aspect other than the time was that my upper hamstrings didn’t hurt much more than they do during most runs.  They were very sore by the time I waited for the award ceremony and started my cooldown run, but after half a mile of shuffling, the soreness diminished and I finished the cooldown ok.  All in all, this was my best non-PR race in a long time.

                             

                            Sun - 6.2 miles in park @ 8:18, faster than normal for an easy run

                            Mon - off

                            Tues - 4.7 miles incl. 4x200 @ 0:43, slow

                            Weds - 5.2 very slow (60 mins) on treadmill

                            Thurs - 4.6 in park including strides

                            Fri - off

                            Sat - 8.6 incl. 5K race in 19:15

                             

                            Total - 29.3 miles

                            YTD average - 44.5 mpw



                            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                            '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              James - great RR and congratulations on an excellent race.  Well done on the age grading, that's excellent and good reward for all of the training you've put in over the last while.  I can see why they used a hooter rather than a gun to start the race as I'm sure people would've freaked out at a gun going off with that many weapons around!  Would've been a unique experience racing with a ton of Rangers in body armour I'm sure.

                               

                              It's interesting you make the point about evening races.  I have had a similar experience with 5k and 10k track races here over summer in the evenings.  Not really my preferred time of day to race but those events have gone surprisingly well for me.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                              Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                                James wow that was impressive congratulations.

                                 

                                RP great job on the 10k.

                                 

                                Flavio sorry to hear of your vaccine reaction. Hope you feel better soon.

                                 

                                Mark/Watson/Steve  solid weeks for you all.

                                Hope you can get some racing in soon.

                                 

                                I'm still running light 30 mpw and weights/core.

                                55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                                " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                                Somewhere in between is about right "