Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition
Problem Child
To piggy back James (AWOL)...vaccinations are a thing here but I won’t be getting one (I’m in the wrong demographic) and I have recently gotten serious about speed training again. I want to go for another sub 20 attempt on March 14. Just did my first workout and it felt easy. I remember doing it previously and being told there wasn’t a point (I thin) with how I did it. It’s on Strava for those who follow me.
2 sets of 8x200m R pace with 200m jog. Reading JD training the recovery is important and this is anaerobic. I’m stuck on the ‘anaerobic’ portion and maybe it’s because I’m sandbagging too much. I did it at a VDOT of 49. It didn’t feel hard at all. I expected Rep pace to be hard. I hit paces of 43-45 for every rep and did a recovery about twice as long as the running portion. The book leads me to believe this was a success. My physical feeling doesn’t. Is aerobic work actually easy, or am I just some kind of aerobic monster? I had to slow down almost every time so I’m confused about the purpose. Even after looking at the numbers.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
James great consistency.
Zebano I don't mind odd distance as it takes the pressure off a bit. Like a 10k and 5k etc you try and hit exact paces. I guess a trail race would be even better.
Mark thanks for the words of wisdom. I do need some down days or week. I've been motivated by a couple of local strava mates who are killing the mileage. One is a friend of Steves and hits 160kms most weeks and another guy a friend of the other dude has started doing 20km double days. Its too much for me though. 100kms feels like plenty.
RP they just started vaccines here. I did 8 x 200 workout 6 weeks ago and averaged 36 secs for the 200s and I'm a crap sprinter. You did 2 sets though so alot tougher.
You must be running them way too slow if it felt easy.
200s are good for leg turnover but 800s and 1000s are the meat and gravy of 5k training.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Darkwave & Zebano: Israel doesn't let anyone in (yet). I didn't really research my hypothesis. But now that I know that it's actually a thing (vaccine tourism) I will look into it
Steve & Piwi: it only took you about 3 years! I thought the MickJogger reference was quite obvious especially since the average reader here is old enough to know the Rolling Stones!
Steve: wow what a "holiday" ! I hope you guys won't have to experience that ever again! And I hope your mom is doing better in the meantime!
Flavio: hope those lockdowns end soon. At least we are having singlet weather, that helps (hope its the same for you).
On the mileage topic - I am just too lazy to get out more than 4 times a week and this limit my weeks to some 55-60km max. I need the motivation of a race, to force myself up more often. Currently we are in a work-from-home regiment, but as soon as the offices reopen, I will try to cycle to work on some days; maybe that will help a bit. And of course I am looking to run a half in fall i.e. September / October.
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
Mmmm Bop
I’ve always thought your screen name is the best because of the Rolling Stones reference.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Piwi I was wondering if I’d done them too slow. It was already setup in my watch and I had so much left i did the last one MUCH faster as practically a forced all out sprint. Maybe I should try a higher VDOT if I’m going to stick with the JD training, and adjust paces moving forward. Maybe I’m not so far out of shape. As I thought.
edit: I even did a 1.6-ish mile (2.4km) warm up and about a 1 mile warm down/cool down/extra mile. It helps to do my workouts about that far from my house. Extra miles for warming up and blood flow.
RP One major problem (IMO) with the JD training is that the VDOT assumes you've equal capabilities across all distances which is simply not true for a variety of reasons but certainly includes the proportion of fast twitch to slow twitch fibers you've got. I suspect that if you found a VDOT that challenged you with R paces and tried to run the equivalent I paces, you'd either run yourself into the ground or just fail the workout. One thing you could do is use your next R workout to just time trial a mile and use that as your "R" pace. Mile races only take a day or two tops to recover from and R is literally supposed to be mile race pace. Pair that up with a 5k TT to determine I and T paces and I think you'd be set. FWIW I agree with Piwi that the I stuff is the meat and gravy.
James I'm glad your hammy and glutes are cooperating but honestly I'm shocked how far you're running on them if they're still weak.
Piwi 20km total as a double or 2x20km each day? either way that's really solid.
Mick I hope you succeed in your vacation vaccination, that's a hilarious double duty.
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
zeb It's supposed to be ANAerobic...not Aerobic power. No WONDER why I got it wrong. I sandbagged my workout. Again. I guess that feels better and coming here (something I need to do more often) helped with it.
Mick I assumed the name was a rolling stones reference and you might have been pointing fun at being an Irish runner. Locally schools have been authorized to 75% capacity (stores are 50, everything else is about 35%) and 3 feet of distance. At this point I firmly believe the COVID 19 mitigation lines up with people needing to get work done. I too need the motivation of a race, but not a virtual one. A REAL one...like Boston.
Interesting info about Isreal's vaccination. 1/3 of the population is vaccinated and they're going back to normal if you've been vaccinated? I think more Americans would be getting vaccinated if this was the case. I enjoy working from home too much so if not being vaccinated means I stay home and stay safe I'd skip it. You know, so those who need it can have access to it.
Flavio sorry about the back. I thought that had gone away for some reason. The training paces look good from ~5,900 miles (~9500km) away.
dwave Treadmill still on the fritz? I can't believe it would break that soon. Almost as bad as my super fancy Sony TV. Stopped working last year, known issue with the motherboard/power supply and it took a TON of back and forth and "we're waiting to see what they say" before I was mailed a replacement TV.
Intl. correspondent
Mick - Yeah, people are done with the restrictions I’d say.
At least it’s now singlet weather like you said, that should signal a decrease in cases.
4 days a week is fine so long as you keep consistent about it.
Mark - Yeah, I should’ve done that probably. I could even see that there would be tons of inclination in Google maps satellite view. Rookie mistake LOL
Zeb - It was too steep, last time I tried something similar I learned my lesson (spoiler: lots of pain in the calves for a few days).
Keen - Yeah, she’s doing alright now. After 10 days had passed her family also could go over and help her out. She’s a very healthy and fit person, I’m certain that helps too.
That’s a strong tempo to be doing in “race week”. Your time trial will be a bit diminished now I reckon.
RP - as I write this I'm pretty much back to 100%.
me - So I have kind of an interesting decision to make. I feel in top aerobic shape. I'm still 24 days away from the "race". I wonder if I should bring the race further. I wonder if I'll peak during training again and arrive flat at race day.
The other thing bugging me is that after that 10K in October last year my fitness had a huge drop. I wonder if I had silent covid (some flu symptoms on the few days after) or if it was just after peak drop in fitness. I say that cause I'm also wondering if I'll be able to run another time trial a couple of weeks after the half on March 21st. I was hoping to use this fitness for a 5k time trial, you know that one where I try and fail miserably at breaking 18 minutes.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Cobra Commander Keen
Flavio - I'm not overly concerned about potentially (likely?) impacting the TT as it's not a real goal. I just want to put forward a solid effort and do what I can.
Along with your feeling of being in top shape, are you feeling run-down at all like the training is getting to you, or perhaps like you can keep this up for another couple weeks before tapering?
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Mother of Cats
Yup - it's the same issue (incline motor) - I first opened the ticket on January 11, and my service appointment is now set for this Friday. Fortunately, everything except the incline motor works just fine, so I've still gotten good use out of it. And I think I may just keep the plywood incline as a long term thing.
BTW, I downloaded an app to measure incline - supposedly the treadmill with plywood is about 1.5. Of course, my phone is not the greatest (it's old enough that sometimes it doesn't respond well when you tilt the screen) so perhaps I should just get a tool Or alternately not worry about it, since what I ultimately care about is splits outside. If my paces are consistently a bit slow on the TM, I don't care, as long as they are consistent.
Re: R pace 200m repeats. Mile pace should be hard, but not super hard when held for 200m. If you are sprinting or straining to hold the pace for 200m, that's not your mile pace - probably closer to your 800m pace.
200m repeats at mile pace should feel more like muscular work than aerobic work.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
RIP Milkman
Steve ahh Mick Jagger I only just realized too
Add me to the dummy list. I'm ashamed of myself.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
I already had you on there
Based on your choice in music I am not shocked. How's April doing? You haven't made her Strava official and by now she should be old enough for some long runs with dad. My wife said "well it's official. Wade is on daddy's social media" which is kinda true. I guess forums aren't social media according to a lot of people.
Dwave Good to know about the mile. I'm sure if you used your phone with a flat case or a book it's scientific enough to say it's an incline. I like tools so I have a magnetic "angle finder" already. I guess I keep thinking a protractor is the plastic half circle I spun on my pencil in Geometry class.
RP, I had another thought last night. 200s area just ... easy at mile pace. At least in my experience they're about 150m of almost no pain, 50m of focused running and 200m of recovery. As soon as you start incorporating 300s, 400s, 500s and 600s (assuming R pace is fast enough that 600 is < 2min which is JD's limit) you will very quickly find the workouts to be much tougher and that scales very quickly. 200s almost feel like longer strides while 300s magically feel like a workout, 600s are sheer torture (I was also running them too fast).
Piwi you're too quick with the jokes! You never give the rest of us a chance.
I'm especially ashsamed given my love of classic rock! I'm currently driving cross country (just arrived in Indiana) and spent the last 11 hours listening to Sirius/XMs top 1000 classic rock songs of all time. Just terrible.
On the plus side, April did very well the entire drive. I'll keep enjoying this while she's not mobile.
I'll be in Colorado for a month. I'm incredibly out of shape, but still looking forward to a few runs a week out there at 10K elevation. Just hope the roads are decent enough to run.
On the JD point: I've said this before about R pace. 200s are easy. 400s are not. RP - if you can do 10x400 right now and you find it relatively easy, your VDOT for R pace needs to increase (while potentially holding back other VDOTS, as Zebano has pointed out they may be different at different speeds).
His workouts usually peak at 12x400 and I am usuallly pretty fried at the end of it, while his 20x200 workout is one of the easiest out of all workouts he prescribes.