Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition (Read 255 times)

    Cfarr/Watson good building block weeks from you guys.

     

    Flavio I never take a phone on my runs these days. NZ is pretty safe but in a new city I'm still cautious. Queen St is famous for the fastest mile ( downhill  Wink sub 3.30.

     

    Darkwave I've seen great reviews on those SL20s and such a good price. Excellent workout shoe.

     

    Steve wow sounds muggy and sticky. Good old cheeseburger fixed you up 

    I have Craig Kirkwood on my strava and he was pacing Alice for 21kms. I saw they started at 3.30s but ended up at 3.50/kms.

     

    I just weighed myself at the neighbors ( we don't have scales with teenage girls in the house  Wink and was 65kgs 144lbs on 2 different sets of scales. Thats very light for me. My pb marathon i was 66kgs. I think I've lost upper body muscle unfortunately 😕

    50+ PBs -  

    5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

    10k 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.6 % age grade

    " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

    Somewhere in between is about right "      

     

      I was able to get my 10 miles in finished up with a bit over 28 for the week

      Weekly for period: From: 04/05/2021 To 04/11/2021

      Date Name Distance
      in mi
      Duration Avg Pace
      per mi
      Elevation Gain
      in ft
      04/06/2021 Evening Run APT. up MBRT and Back 5.25 00:49:42 09:28 72
      04/07/2021 Afternoon Run 5.01 00:42:03 08:24 213
      04/10/2021 Morning Run 7.50 01:06:46 08:54 171
      04/11/2021 Apartment to Duncan park and back 10.51 01:42:56 09:48 282

      Total distance: 28.27mi

      PR's

      1m  5:38 (2018)

      5k    19:59 (2019)

      HM  1:33:56 (2018)

      FM  3:23:07 (2018)

        Steve Nice Race report sorry you ended up nauseated and cramping.

        PR's

        1m  5:38 (2018)

        5k    19:59 (2019)

        HM  1:33:56 (2018)

        FM  3:23:07 (2018)

        JMac11


        Taper Czar

          Steve - one tip going forward: ALWAYS take nutrition on these long MP runs. You're not training your body to utilize fat in these runs. It's supposed to be practice for the marathon. So you do your 30+ KM long runs with zero nutrition besides water to train your body how to utilize fat storages, but MP runs should always be practicing gels and water. I also hope when you say no nutrition, you did take water during the race given how warm it was

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

          Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

          zebano


            Holy moly, you guys have been busy.

             

            Piwi Yeah, in retrospect it was probably pretty funny. I could see the life guard watching me going "do I really have to go help this joker? They're on dry land" Sorry about the hotel experience, drunks are obnoxious.  What were you travelling for? Good week, and good job being smart enough to start the run into the wind. Dang 144lbs? That's light.

             

            James You make me nervous running through all the niggles, but I've done the same thing and I'm planning to do similar here. 50 miles is a really solid week and getting a 20km in outside is good news.

             

            Mark solid week and welcome to Masters running! Very nice progression.

             

            Flavio Yeah I took a single down-week (30 miles) after the big endurance event. Possibly not enough but I wanted to get in some sharpening for my 10km. Oh well. Very smart of you  to back out of the endurance challenge.

             

            Watson I'm glad to see you back and starting to log some KMers! Things are trending up for you!

             

            Darkwave -  Very nice week, and nice shoe review. I'm curious do you wear spikes to race on the track? Between that and super shoes for road races how much opportunity is there to wear a flat these days? p.s. I own a pair of flats that I really like, it just feels like a disappearing market segment.  I see from your latter comment that you don't wear spikes. How's the width of the toebox on that shoe?

             

            Steve Great workout/race/tempo. Warm weather always necessitates electrolytes for me beyond 90 minutes but that may just be me. It was funny to me that you had to work to not race other people, good lesson to learn before the marathon but it's also how we run some of our best races. Congrats on nailing that with the big big volume week I hope that portends good things for your marathon.

             

            Cfar solid week.

             

             

             

            A few random thoughts from me:

             

            • My weight has very very slowly been trending below 170. Once I'm back in base phase I think I'm going to count calories but I don't like to do that when workouts are happening as I get injured. 
            • I've always felt like I have a much much lower cadence than other runners I know but it's really noticeable during faster intervals as I really struggle late in workouts to keep cadence up. I'm curious is this normal for everyone or are there some of you who struggle to keep a longer stride instead? This is mostly inspired by ASICS new shoes having two versions: 1 for "cadence runners" and 1 for "stride runners" which is setting off my B.S.-alarm.
            • So the calf... The real deal is that I seem to have Plantar Faciitis. For about a year and a half now I've had some heel pain on waking but it quickly went away. When I would run I would feel it for about a block and it would fade away.  I'd do a little bit of rolling the foot on a lacrosse ball and that seemed to help. The big cramp on Thursday made the heel really hurt to the point I didn't want to walk at all that evening or Friday. Saturday and Sunday were notable improvements but I did nothing but clean the house this weekend. I think I'm back to where I started but I'll know for sure after my lunch run where I'm testing my foot out. If need be I'll take up pool running. I probably have to review last years thread where I know DW gave some tips on it. 

             

            MY week:

             

            45 min easy + short hill sprints

            T: 5xKM @ 5k effort w/ 100 sec jog... 4th rep was terribly off pace (4:15). 4:02/KM average. + Weights

            W 40 minutes easy + drills and Mobility work

            T: 20km w/ 3x1.5mi@10k (10:03, 9:57, 1 mi in 6:51, ending on a big hill :14 rest  , mentally kicked myself then .5 in 3:48) + KM +  Swimming and the cramp

            Th-Sun  Nothing

             

            28.6 miles running

            1KM swimming

             

             

            stupid observations: long efforts at 10k pace hurts the legs a lot more than I remember and way more than LT work. I totally forgot about my .25 mile recoveries when planning the workout as I expected to be done before the hill known as "The Equalizer" and instead I hit it with half a mile of effort remaining and I was not mentally prepared for that with the state my legs were in.

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

            flavio1980


            King of pastries

              Watson - what’s the injuries status?

               

              Darkwave - that’s hilarious having to carry the passport. Yeah none of that since the 3 countries are within the Schengen zone.

              I’m glad to hear you found your low stack shoes. 

               

              Steve - Thanks for the great race report. That does sound like dehydration at the end.

              It was also a huge week, so now you recover well from that.

               

              Zebano - I’m not sure about Asics marketing, but I do struggle to keep a longer stride at the end of races or at all.

              If I want to speed up it seems my body is only wired to increase cadence till it becomes ridiculous.

              To be fair it kinda works at the end of races I seem to be able to out sprint people no matter how tired I am.

              Plantar fasciitis also causes issues on my calves besides under the foot and at the ankle.

              Rolling a tennis ball under the foot and at the piriformis muscle helps (I know it’s bizarre but it works).

              Foam rolling calves and Thumb pushes against the tendon under the foot also help ( Thumb pushes Wink

              If it is what I’m thinking you will be good for your race..

              PRs: 1500m 4:54 (2019) 3K 10:34 (2019) 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

              Up next: ????

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              CommanderKeen


              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                Zebano - Too bad about the streak ending, but it sounds like the right decision.
                How tall are you? I'm taller than most and also have naturally slower cadence than most people I know at any given intensity - though my stride length is also longer than theirs in most cases.


                Piwi, Mark, DWave - Good weeks.


                DWave - The SL20s look interesting, at at sub-$70 I'm quite tempted to try some out myself. The heel/toe drop on them is more than double that of any shoe I've ever worn before.


                Steve - Good RR, and a really solid workout there. Congrats on the weekly mileage PR to boot!


                Just shy of 81 miles for me last week, all easy and largely thanks to 5k-ish doubles during the week.
                I'm a touch out of sorts today - my grandfather (last remaining grandparent) passed away yesterday evening (not covid, for the curious). I did manage to make it there before he passed.
                He used to run quite a bit, though no races that I know of. I recall being very psyched the first time I managed to race a 5k at a faster pace than he used to do his daily runs at (~7:30/mi).

                5k: 18:24 5/21 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                 

                Upcoming Races:

                 

                10/2 - Wurst Race Half

                12/5 - California International Marathon

                zebano


                   

                  Zebano - I’m not sure about Asics marketing, but I do struggle to keep a longer stride at the end of races or at all.

                  If I want to speed up it seems my body is only wired to increase cadence till it becomes ridiculous.

                  To be fair it kinda works at the end of races I seem to be able to out sprint people no matter how tired I am.

                  Plantar fasciitis also causes issues on my calves besides under the foot and at the ankle.

                  Rolling a tennis ball under the foot and at the piriformis muscle helps (I know it’s bizarre but it works).

                  Foam rolling calves and Thumb pushes against the tendon under the foot also help ( Thumb pushes Wink

                  If it is what I’m thinking you will be good for your race..

                   

                  Keen  - Sorry about your Grandfather, losing family is always hard.  
                  I'm 5'9". Average cadence on easy runs seems to be 165-170 and race efforts are 172-180 cadence depending on the distance while many people seem to be 30 or more steps per minute faster.

                   

                  Flavio - Very interesting that you're all cadence as I seem to be the opposite though I can usually up it to sprint at the very end. I brought a lacross ball into work so I can sit here rolling around on it with my shoes off. I'll try the thumb pulls and I have a PT appointment on Wednesday to get some dry needling done as I've had good luck with that and my calf in the past. I do think my tight calves, sore achilles and sore facia are all interconnected so I'm hoping that relaxing the calves helps everything else out. I'm also retiring a few pairs of shoes that have either made me notice my heel or are over 500 miles.

                  1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    Keen Bummer man. That sucks about grandpa. Mine died and his funeral was the day before CIM one year so I kind of had something to distract me from dealing with it.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      Keen excellent mileage week 👏

                      Sorry about your grandad and cool that he was a runner.

                       

                      Zebano I'm  5 foot 8 so close to your height. I'm probably about as light as I should be. Almost got rid of my belly fat 😩

                      My cadence is 180 plus on faster stuff and about 176 on slow stuff. I feel I can adjust mine if im fatigued so like Flavio shorter faster steps at the end of a race. I think there is some truth to Asics theory. There used to be another topic going around with antelopes versus sliders or something like that. Some people have an athletic bouncy stride with high heel kick while others are less active but can keep it going for a long time. You see this with runners who can run a good marathon time but not such a good 5k compared.

                      I like your use of the word joker. I thought that was only a Kiwi saying 🤣

                      My daughter is on holiday from university and wanted to see a thing called robot wars. They smash into each other until one prevails 

                      50+ PBs -  

                      5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                      10k 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.6 % age grade

                      " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                      Somewhere in between is about right "      

                       

                      watsonc123


                        Another good tool for PF is ice baths.  If you have a big enough bucket, then 10 minutes per foot works wonders.

                         

                        Flavio - I am good injury wise, thanks.

                         

                        Keen - sorry for your loss. What is the heel drop on the Endorphin Speed?  Are you sure the SL20 is double?

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          Corey - nice week building back up.

                           

                          Keen - sorry to hear about your grandfather.  It's cool that he was an inspiration for you with your running though.

                           

                          Zebano - re cadence, I'm pretty high, like normally around the 190spm mark, maybe 195 in races.  I admire those runners that float nicely with the high heel kick but I sure ain't one of them.  As my pace changes, my cadence doesn't seem to change that much, mostly I just lengthen (or shorten) my stride.

                           

                          PF - no shortage of suggestions here, but one I use is a ball with nodules on it that you can chuck in the freezer.  The combination of the cold and the nodules on the surface seems to be pretty effective.

                          5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                          HM: 1:09:41 (May-20)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, 1:09:41 (1st place)

                          Up next: Debut XC season (at age 40)

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                           

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            CK - very sorry to hear about your gradnfather.  That's hard.  I am glad you were able to make it there in time.  It doesn't help the pain (nothing does), but it is something.

                             

                             

                            • I've always felt like I have a much much lower cadence than other runners I know but it's really noticeable during faster intervals as I really struggle late in workouts to keep cadence up. I'm curious is this normal for everyone or are there some of you who struggle to keep a longer stride instead? This is mostly inspired by ASICS new shoes having two versions: 1 for "cadence runners" and 1 for "stride runners" which is setting off my B.S.-alarm.

                             

                            I think they are onto something in that different runners have different gaits and do best with different shoes (my Adios Pros are up on eBay).  But the division of "cadence" v. "stride" is similar to "slowtwitch" v. "fastwitch" - an oversimplification and an over-polarization.

                             

                            I'm guessing I'm closer to the "cadence" category.  Around 180 for easy runs;  196-200 for marathon pace; 200-205 for tempo work, and all the way up to 210 or so when racing the mile.  When kicking, I'll start turning my legs over too quickly, and I'll actually have to slow down my cadence so I can lengthen my stride, rather than devolving to the point where I'm running in place like a sewing machine.

                             

                            There is no bounce in my gait.  None.  Friends have joked about placing a glass of water on my head.  I run like a centipede, not an antelope or cheetah.

                             

                            Re: heel-toe drop - the SL20 has a 10 mm heel toe drop, which is similar to the early Adios Boost models.  So not that much of an outlier (though more rare now).

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            watsonc123


                              Just checked online - Endorphin Speed is 8mm.  So no doubling for the SL20.

                              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                               

                              40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                Steve - one tip going forward: ALWAYS take nutrition on these long MP runs. You're not training your body to utilize fat in these runs. It's supposed to be practice for the marathon. So you do your 30+ KM long runs with zero nutrition besides water to train your body how to utilize fat storages, but MP runs should always be practicing gels and water. I also hope when you say no nutrition, you did take water during the race given how warm it was

                                 

                                Thanks, this is good advice.  I didn't grab water during the race - I find most of it goes everywhere but my mouth and I usually can survive a half without it.  But most of my races are in cold weather.  In hindsight, I should have organised someone to pass me a bottle at some point.  Maybe Mr Jones would have been a good person to do that.  Oh my god, even though that is a song reference I just remembered I saw Nathan Jones at the start and throughout the race but forgot to mention it.  Looked like he was supporting people while out for a long run, he was running next to the river in the other direction with a hydration pack on.

                                 

                                This weekend I have a long run with 6km of effort at 10 and 20 secs per km quicker than MP.  So 24km of easy before some speed on tired legs.  I was thinking I'd split it so I run back past my house at about 14km and get a powerade from the letterbox.  For a workout like this (total 32km) would you also recommend the gel?

                                 

                                Keen - Very sorry for your loss, condolences to the family.

                                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                                Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20