Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition (Read 257 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Steve - so, my approach is a little different to JMac's, but it's predicated on the fact that 95% of my runs are done first thing in the morning on an empty stomach (and my long runs always are).

     

    For easy pace long runs, I generally work to around 1 gel per 30 mins once you're past the first hour (i.e. 1 for a 1.5 hour run, 2 for a 2 hour run).  Because I'm starting on an empty stomach anyway, I find I need a bit of an energy boost once I get beyond that first hour (and since most of my runs are on an empty stomach anyway my body has plenty of practice burning fat).

     

    For MP runs I didn't change that formula too much but might have a banana beforehand and/or include some electrolytes partway through.

     

    If you're looking at 32km all up, with a powerade stop halfway through.  I'd definitely consider taking a gel for that second half, probably something like the 21-22km mark so it's in your system before you hit those efforts.

     

    On that note, a specific supplement like Endura Rehydration Performance Fuel will do a lot better than Powerade.

    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

    HM: 1:09:41 (May-20)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, 1:09:41 (1st place)

    Up next: Debut XC season (at age 40)

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

     

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      steve Listen to the advice here. Integrate it into training moving forward. I can tell you it's going to help because I'm a prime example of someone who listened to the advice from running forums and benefited from it.

       

      Cfarr looks like your comeback is going well.

       

      piwi 144 pounds? SHEESH! I'm about 77 kg and 5'8. Fat kid likes his snacks.

       

      cadence/stride I remember thinking I HAD to run 180 bpm because I read/heard somewhere elites do that. Once I actually tracked it I was aparently naturally around a 180 cadence. Next the focus was stride length which needed to increase to speed up. It was all just a giant math equation. In order to go faster I had to go farther each step AND I had to take more steps. I was actually thinking about this on today's run before coming here.

       

      My Week

       

      Weekly for period: From: 05/04/2021 To 11/04/2021

      Date Name Distance
      in km
      Duration Avg Pace
      per km
      Elevation Gain
      in m
      05/04/2021 That time the weatherman was wrong. 11.27 (7.00 mi) 00:57:33 05:06 36
      06/04/2021 That time I let that dog eat. 14.29 (8.88 mi) 01:22:41 05:47 34
      06/04/2021 Morning Activity 0.55 (0.34 mi) 00:24:42 44:55 0
      07/04/2021 That time I comma hate my commaing boss because he/she is a commaing comma. 14.58  (9.06 mi) 01:18:45 05:24 30
      09/04/2021 That time it was HAM. 12.87 (8.00 mi) 01:05:36 05:06 27
      10/04/2021 That time I did it early. 24.49 (15.22 mi) 02:05:41 05:08 144
      10/04/2021 Lemon juice vs Apple cider vinegar 0.62 (0.38) 00:19:06 30:48 0
      11/04/2021 That time it was an overnight garage sale. 14.34 (8.91mi)  01:13:36 05:08 70

      Total distance: 93.01km (57.81 mi)

       

      Tuesday's workout was 2x*8x200R, 200 jog) and ranged from 40.7 to 43.5 seconds with a goal of 43 seconds. The second set of 8 seemd to be faster than the first. Today's 200/200/400 seemed to be slower. The 15.22 mi/24.49km run was actually about 1/2 mile longer beause I forgot to start my watch. Friday's workout probably should have been limited to 5 minute intervals instead of miles for the 2T portion. of (4x200m + 2T + 4x200m) even though I was able to get it done. I forget JD says Threshold pace is about the distance you can cover in 5 minutes, or something along those lines. 

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        Mark - Interesting, thanks for that info.  Looking at the Endura website, it contains 6g of carbs per dose - do you use gels in addition to this?

        PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

        Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

        Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

        CommanderKeen


        Aspiring Hobby Jogger

          Thanks, all.

           

           

          Zebano - Looking back across my running log, my usual cadence for easy runs is 168-170. Races tend to be 174-176. DWave is a tiny-stepping cadence monster - I'm pretty sure she'll be at well over 200spm for a mile race if I recall...


          Watson - Whoops. I really thought I had seen the Endorphin line being 4mm drop, but checking their website says 8mm, while the SL20 is 9.5mm. Perhaps they're back in the running, as it were.


          PF - I dealt with this briefly when I first started running, long before I found the RWOL forums, even. Aside from rolling my foot on golf balls, a frozen water bottle also worked well.

          5k: 18:24 5/21 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

           

          Upcoming Races:

           

          10/2 - Wurst Race Half

          12/5 - California International Marathon

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            Long runs I do all my long runs without food. I have breakfast before and I'll BRING gels with me but rarely use them. I also do them early in the morning (7-8am) and will take a gel during the run if I feel like I need it. For racing, I'll do Marathon paced runs with a gel and take them when I plan to take them during the race. So far 45 minutes has worked with Maurten. I'll typically bring a 16 oz handheld soft water bottle for thes runs to practice eating and drinking on the run.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            Marky_Mark_17


              Mark - Interesting, thanks for that info.  Looking at the Endura website, it contains 6g of carbs per dose - do you use gels in addition to this?

               

              I think the rehydration performance fuel, which is the one I use, is 20g carbs per dose, so it effectively would replace a gel. Its big advantage over Powerade is that it has a lot more magnesium which is a really important electrolyte for runners.  If you are using a lower carb version, you might need to supplement with a gel.

               

              I don't use it mid-run but I certainly would if the geography around my house was more conducive to stopping at home midway through a run.

              5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

              HM: 1:09:41 (May-20)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, 1:09:41 (1st place)

              Up next: Debut XC season (at age 40)

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

               

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                Thanks RP and Mark.  Interesting how common it is to run on an empty stomach, especially for a long run.

                 

                I've ordered some Endura and will add it to my pre-run nutrition and have some during a run when possible.  I'm lucky now that I have bike paths in both directions from my house so I can split a run.

                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                  Darkwave you might remember Rachallera. She had a similar cadence around 200. Tiny little fast steps that she could maintain for sub 2.50 marathon.

                   

                  RP if you get down to my weight you will be a sub 2.30 marathoner 

                   

                  Put my bloody back out today...putting on my shoes

                  50+ PBs -  

                  5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                  10k 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.6 % age grade

                  " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                  Somewhere in between is about right "      

                   

                    Keen sorry to hear about the loss of your Grandfather, that is tough.

                     

                    I'm 5'7 and am currently about 69kg /152 lbs  mostly belly... I want to get back down to about 63 kg /140 lbs that seems to be a good training weight.  I was between 140 and 135 for my HM and FM PR's.

                    Since I was in HS I was "made fun of" for my high cadence and short little steps...

                    I'm typically between 175 and 180 on my slower training runs and I went back and took a look at my race from 2018/2019

                    for my 1 mile and 5k races I was right at 200 for both, for my HM I was at 194 and for my FM was at 188.

                    PR's

                    1m  5:38 (2018)

                    5k    19:59 (2019)

                    HM  1:33:56 (2018)

                    FM  3:23:07 (2018)

                    flavio1980


                    King of pastries

                      Keen - Sorry for your loss. It sounds like your grandpa was a badass!!

                      My cadence at recovery is +- 170-175, around 180 for easy pace, 190-195 for 5k and over 200 when sprinting.

                       

                      Piwi - Robot wars are awesome!

                       

                      Darkwave - forgot to answer, I’m in that 90% good range where you can still run and you have a good feeling it will go back to normal in a few weeks.

                      At least now I seem to be back to my usual niggles.

                      It seems we’re wired the same in terms of cadence.

                       

                      Steve - Yeah, we found out the issue with your races. Lack of water consumption. 

                      Have you tried folding/smashing the cup so that it’s way easier to sip? Otherwise you might have to resort to walking breaks in longer races.

                       

                      smashed cup of water

                       

                       

                      Cadence discussion: Exhibit A: Me in blue and orange jersey passing the guy in the white jersey and running barefoot.

                      For a moment there it looks like I'm going to start running in place one feet above the ground 

                      You will see how first and second place on this same race (just rewind a bit) have a lower cadence/longer stride.

                      1500m race - last sprint

                      PRs: 1500m 4:54 (2019) 3K 10:34 (2019) 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                      Up next: ????

                      Tool to generate Strava weekly

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Flavio - Excellent demonstration. I'm most certainly one of the slower cadence/longer stride people. Also, I really like this part of the video.

                        5k: 18:24 5/21 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        10/2 - Wurst Race Half

                        12/5 - California International Marathon

                          Keen: Sorry to hear about your grandpa; glad you could be there at the end.

                           

                          On the cadence discussion, an interesting outlier from the elites is Jim Walmsley (you can follow him on strava, he's one of a handful of elites that post to strava). His cadence is usually in the 150's, and even racing does not get over 170. Just checked and for the 100k (5:55 pace) he was at 161, and for his marathon at the trials (5:06 pace) it was 166. He really challenges the notion that minimal vertical movement is critical to efficient distance running; very bounding type of stride.

                           

                          Back to lurk mode for me here 

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                            Flavio awesome video you look fast and I like the celebration 🍾.  You could have posted a video of Geb outsprinting others at the end of a 10k with his high cadence but your video is better 😉

                            They had one robot on display which was the size of a small lawnmower. The kiwi 🥝  owners of it took it overseas and won a big competition.

                             

                            For our Kiwi guys on here Jono and Ben were there and I should be in the audience in their alternative sports show on TV2 later this year.

                             

                            Corey I've probably shrunken to about 5'7 these days. I don't think I should go any lighter.

                             

                            Re cadence with the variety of body shapes etc there is obviously a big range of optimal cadences so I wouldn't stress too much.

                             

                            JT I want to congratulate you on your marathon. It looked to be a tough course and small race yet you still smashed sub 3.

                            50+ PBs -  

                            5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                            10k 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.6 % age grade

                            " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                            Somewhere in between is about right "      

                             

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              I've ordered some Endura and will add it to my pre-run nutrition and have some during a run when possible.  I'm lucky now that I have bike paths in both directions from my house so I can split a run.

                               

                              Hope it works well for you.  I started using it in 2017 and haven't looked back.  I used to have an issue with late-race fades, which I thought was me blowing up but my coach was convinced a lack of electrolytes was part of the problem and suggested I try the Endura rehydration stuff.  I'm not sure whether it was the Endura or just improved fitness or both but those late race fades sure happen a lot less than they used to.

                               

                              I generally use it pre-run either before races and before workouts/long runs during hot weather where I'm likely to sweat a lot.  I'll often take some the day before a race too, helps to pre-load your body with electrolytes.

                               

                              RP - nice week, by the way.

                              5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                              HM: 1:09:41 (May-20)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, 1:09:41 (1st place)

                              Up next: Debut XC season (at age 40)

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                               

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                Thanks. Easier than I remember. I would have run today however I had an interview then a meeting and I have a new boss who I hated before he was my boss. He is already making changes to the work flow and apparently I didn’t tell him something I told him in our meeting today. FML

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.