2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread (Read 301 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    All - Fred messaged me to let me know he has somehow been locked from posting, but wanted to thank everyone for their support ahead of his race.  Hopefully he can get back on soon.

     

    MJ - race is in a couple of weeks.

     

    Hash - Rebel Alliance... haha I see what you did there. Honestly I feel like the imperial system of measurement has more of an Outer Rim quality to it, to be fair.  Hope you pulled up OK after the marathon.

     

    Watson - seemed like a tough day all around at Christchurch.  Most of the elites were saying they were several minutes slower than they'd hoped to be. I guess the wind made it hard work.

     

    Darkwave - it seems unusual that we are both weather whining about warm conditions at the same time despite being in different hemispheres.

     

    James - good job building the mileage back up and hopefully the body holds together for you.

     

    Me - tough week on a number of fronts... weather was more like December than April with high temps, humidity, and a pretty persistent strong NE wind for the entire week.  But the big week is in the bag, and it was satisfying to get it done in spite of all that, finishing with my longest run in a year.  Two weeks until the race so now I just have to hope the wheels don't fall off.

     

    Weekly for period: From: 17/04/2023 To 23/04/2023

    <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in m
    17/04 That run where the giant billboard says you should not feed avocado to a cat 8.08 13.00 00:57:15 07:05 04:24 72
    18/04 That run where I didn’t expect to be running shirtless in mid April but here we are 11.24 18.09 01:10:31 06:16 03:54 101
    19/04 That run where I’d like autumn back please 7.52 12.10 00:52:53 07:02 04:22 59
    20/04 That run where things might be about to get weird 8.61 13.85 00:55:32 06:27 04:01 168
    21/04 That run where at least wet and windy is a change from humid and windy 8.72 14.04 00:51:16 05:53 03:39 117
    23/04 That run where that was probably the most fun I’ve ever had running up the bridge 19.36 31.15 02:16:09 07:02 04:22 305

    Total distance: 102.23km (63.5 imperial polka dot scrunchies)

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

    Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      Fred - Good luck in the Jersey City Half!! (and hope your posting issue gets sorted soon)

       

      Mark - Another nice, solid week there. Yeah, body hasn't been feeling too bad, actually. I think it felt worse after a night rocking out at the Dance Exponents/Exponents concert on Friday night!

       

      Steve - Ah, yes - that was my club mate Michele. He had a horror run with non-marathon running, and pretty much spent like a year training for races that either never happened, or he couldn't participate in. I've seen him at a few events, but don't think I've actually ever trained with him. Him and his wife are both lovely people, and I enjoy the chance to chat with him when I can.

       

      Looking back at my 12 training weeks before race day, I've noted a few things to improve on for next time:

       

      Runs over 2 hrs - Only managed 7. I want to at least double this.

      Runs over 30km - Had 3 of these. Would like this number to be at least 7.

      Marathon Pace - I hadn't done much of this, as I was coming back from a calf strain and didn't want to overdo things. Need a lot more MP in my runs for next time, though.

      Strength Training - Want to get 3-4 of these leg workouts done a week - https://youtu.be/rYsWzRu_0Yc

      50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

      2024 Goals: Boston Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20

       

       

        Hash: great resolution & execution. I did more runs of more than 2 hours but never managed to break 30km because I injured my calf which took 2 weeks to heal. Your plan looks solid.

        Fred: stop the excuses and post your week Wink

         

        Mark - how does your taper look like? I believe Kipchoge ran 100miles the week before Berlin - I guess you will keep the volume up too?


        Steve: I hope your next race gives you good clues.Btw I doubt anyone isn’t a bit edgy/excited on a race weekend. I am sure it was something “mechanical” that has an easy fix. Glad you are keeping at it.

         

        darkwave: will implement your strategy of swapping to super shoes in the next long run!

         

        me: good week - didn’t feel any pain. But I wanted to run 30km long run but life got in the way. So maxed out at 25k for the long run. I will have to run for close to 4 hours, so I think I am ok on total mileage but underprepared on the long run side of things. I maxed out at 2/3 of the marathon in both time as well as length. And my longest run will be 5 weeks old on race day. Sub optimal. I am wondering whether I should go for another 3 hour run on Tuesday, 12 days before the race. Any views?

         

        my week in numbers - all of them in the Saucony Speeds as I have been on the road and only packed for one pair of running shoes - they are really great though:

        Weekly for period: From: 17/04/2023 To 23/04/2023

        <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in m
        17/04 Morning Run 15.67 25.21 02:29:04 09:31 05:55 170
        19/04 Morning Run 6.22 10.01 01:03:56 10:17 06:23 110
        20/04 Morning Run 7.47 12.02 01:13:13 09:48 06:05 101
        21/04 Morning Run 5.10 8.21 00:51:37 10:07 06:17 50
        22/04 Morning Run 10.27 16.52 01:38:54 09:38 05:59 83
        23/04 Morning Run 8.10 13.03 01:14:37 09:13 05:44 75

        Total distance: 85.00km

        HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

         

        2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

        Marky_Mark_17


          Hash - I'm struggling to remember the last time I went to a concert... I think it was Alice in Chains in 2019.  Those long runs are definitely the money too... even without MP.

           

          MJ - Probably around 80km this week, and then maybe 30km in race week before the race itself.  The Endorphin Speeds are an awesome shoe and I am a big fan, normally for workouts but I've used them for long runs too.  In terms of your long run... I wouldn't think 12 days out would be too much of an issue, should be heaps of recovery time there still.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

          Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

             

            I am wondering whether I should go for another 3 hour run on Tuesday, 12 days before the race. Any views?

             

             

            My view:  No.

             

            (Please don't do this.  IMHO, you are too close to your race - the losses and risks from doing that greatly outweigh any potential gains.)

             

            Marky_Mark  - the heat should be coming to an end for you soon, right?  (and thanks for the tip on avocados and cats)

             

            Hash - why seven runs over 30 km?

             

            James - do you think that the urge to puke is from the pickle juice specifically?  Or just from swimming with a lot of fluid in your stomach?

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              My week:

              67 miles running, 1500 yards swimming and 90 minutes pool-running.

              M: 8 miles very easy (9:11) and then an extra mile (10:00 - testing a new pair of shoes) followed by upper body weights/core.
              T: 11 miles, including a track workout of 2000, 4x800 in 8:29, 3:15, 3:14, 3:11, 3:07. Recoveries between 2:4x and 2:5x. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
              W: Streaming yoga and 11 miles very easy (9:14) plus drills and hill sprints.
              Th: 90 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
              F: 11 miles, including a 6400m track tempo in 27:37 (7:03/6:56/6:54/6:43. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
              Sa: 10.5 miles very easy (9:03), plus drills and strides, followed by streaming yoga.
              Su: 14.5 miles progressive, split as first 5 miles averaging 9:17 pace; next 5.5 miles averaging 7:53 pace (partially with a tailwind); next 4 miles averaging 7:31 pace (with headwind). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

               

              My mileage is artificially high this week because I took one of my recovery pool-running days on Sunday instead of Monday, resulting in one week at 50 miles and the next week at 67 miles. Had I swapped those two days, then I would have had two weeks at 58 and 59 miles - essentially even. Which just shows how weekly mileage is not always that great a metric to focus on. In my case, average mileage over 14 days is a much better metric.

               

              I remain really happy with how things are progressing. For the second week in a row, I was actually able to run hard during the Tuesday workout, with the welcome result that I ran an 800m repeat in under 3:10 for the first time since September 2021. Of course, in that September 2021 workout I also ran an 800m repeat in under 3 minutes, so I still have a lot of work ahead of me.

               

              Friday's tempo felt decent, if uncomfortable. I used that tempo run to test out the Nike Vaporfly3, in hopes that would be my new racing shoe. But I just never felt comfortable in the shoe - it gives too much when I push off. I may give the shoe another try in a few months, since I'm still working on ankle and leg stability. But for now, I'll stay with a mix of the Adidas Adios 7 and the Asics Metaspeed Edge+ for my fast running.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Half Crazy K 2.0


                Hash, nice job with the marathon.

                 

                Steve, that sounds rough. I know shoes have been mentioned, but is your day of eating & drinking something you have done prior to training runs?

                 

                JamesD, I like pickles, but the idea of pickelt juce is just  Is it fairly acidic?

                 

                MJ, NO, don't do the 3 hour run. At this point, your fitness is what it is.

                 

                darkwave, nice week. I remember years ago someoen posing a hypothetical question about mileage siilar to your example. I can't remember the exact details, but basically it averaged the same, just depeded on when the long run fell.

                Half Crazy K 2.0


                  My week:

                  Monday uper body strength training

                  Tuesday am  6 miles with 10 x 2 min hard, 1 min jog pm 20 minutes easy treadmill + lower body strength training

                  Wednesday am 4 miles

                  Thursday rest day

                  Friday am 4.4 with strides. Slept in a later later than I wanted to

                  Saturday 6 with parking lot intervals plus strength training (total body)

                  Sunday 4 miles plus strength training (core focused)

                   

                  Keeping with Fred's experiment, I wore Vaporflies Saturday for my interval workout. Definitely not like comparison, I figured this should be the best test for them, since it's the fastest I'm going to run. Warm up, meh. Felt a little awkward. Workout, felt fine, not amazing. As with the Endorphn Pros, I felt the workout morre in the glutes than with my usual go to Wave Riders.

                  watsonc123


                    James - nice week.

                    Hash - I think you did pretty well. I did notice quite a fade, was your fuelling good? That MIGHT be more important than the number of >30km long runs.

                    Mick - still going re work. I also think the 3 hour run 12 days out is not a good risk/reward option.


                    Darkwave - nice week. You should have replied in the how many shoes you have thread! Interesting that you didn't like the Vaporfly 3 that much, are you stating you find it too bouncy!


                    Mark - nice week. Also how did the Vaporfly 3's go, have you ran in them yet?


                    My week was pretty good considering. Seven day week with 4am (at home) starts Sat and Sun as work had it's last Dress Rehearsal for a major project. Also started 4am today (Mon) so looking forward to public holiday (ANZAC) tomorrow.

                     

                    Wed MLR workout was slow and a large fade. Workout period of 64 minutes averaged about 20 s/km slower than aim, last year this period averaged about MP.  So, I'm probably a 3:30 marathon right now, so rather good that my race is delayed to August (originally May).

                     

                    Two strength sessions plus:

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 17/04/2023 To 23/04/2023

                    <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in m
                    17/04 Morning Run 1.56 2.51 00:13:43 08:48 05:28 14
                    17/04 Morning Run 1.61 2.59 00:14:16 08:52 05:31 5
                    19/04 Afternoon Run - 8 * (4:00 HMP and 4:00 Steasy) 11.06 17.79 01:30:01 08:08 05:04 74
                    20/04 Evening Run 1.59 2.56 00:14:32 09:08 05:41 14
                    20/04 Evening Run 1.60 2.58 00:14:52 09:18 05:46 6
                    21/04 Lunch Ride 5.75 9.25 00:31:00 05:23 03:21 23
                    23/04 Afternoon Run - 5 * Flying 30s 4.73 7.61 00:47:26 10:02 06:14 7

                    Total distance: 35.65km plus 9.25km Bike

                    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                     

                    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                     

                    2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                     

                    2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                    JamesD


                    JamesD

                      Mick - I do my last long run before a half four weeks out, so I certainly wouldn’t do one 12 days out.  The downside risk seems much greater than the possible benefit.

                       

                      darkwave - It’s the pickle juice and not the fluid in general.  I only drink a 2-ounce shot, so there’s not all that much fluid sloshing around, and in the past I’ve had a few swallows of Gatorade before swimming without incident.

                       

                      HCK - Yes, it’s pretty acidic.  Ingredients are water, vinegar, and sea salt.  I don’t think it tastes all that bad, but I’m used to it, and two ounces goes down pretty quickly.



                      Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                      '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                          

                        Hash - why seven runs over 30 km?

                          

                         

                        DW - Fair enough question! And actually, I will adjust that to at least 7 runs over 25km (16 miles) rather than over 30km. My last training block was quite light on long runs 2 hours & over, so a few more 16-20milers wouldn't hurt (although quite tricky to work around a young family). Most training plans I've seen have about seven 16mile+ runs in the last eight weeks of Marathon specific training, which makes total sense to me. But I'm also not a slave to training plans, so happy to adjust if I need to.

                        Nice work on that sub-3:10 800m, btw!

                         

                        MJ - Know that calf conundrum well. That was the main reason my early training weeks were light or non-existent. Even when I got back into it, I made sure not to overdo it.

                         

                        Mark - That was actually the first night me and the wife have had out for quite a long time. Not that we're the 'going out' types - more like the 'curl up on the sofa and watch cricket (me) or research the latest in early childhood education theory (the wife)' types.

                         

                        HCK - Cheers. Did I miss the memo on what a parking lot interval is, though??

                         

                        Watson - Absolutely a slow down in that last 12km, mate. Although I don't think it was a 'fade' as such. My left leg really started to hurt, and I couldn't run freely on it. I'll see if some extra strength work and more long runs fixes that up, so I can run fast enough in the last bit to actually fade properly!

                        I think the fuelling went ok. Not a huge fan of gels, but used Pure Sports Nutrition gels, and a Cliff blok, which were palatable.

                         

                        James - Can't say I've ever heard of drinking pickle juice before!

                         

                        Fred - Congrats on what looks like a sub-2hr Half Perish run! Did it end up getting above 60º?

                        50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                        2024 Goals: Boston Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20

                         

                         

                        Half Crazy K 2.0


                          Hash, during the pandemic,  I started using the local elementary school parking lot for speed work. It's roughly 200 meters, but not exact.  In the early morning on weekdays,  very little traffic since school doesn't start until 9 and weekends It's just pickleball players.

                            Heard a lot of good things about pickleball!

                             

                            thanks for all the suggestions - I will keep with the JD taper suggestion which is for 12 miles as max for this week!

                             

                            Fred somehow is not allowed to post but here is his week and a great race result too:

                             

                            Date Workout Type Distance Duration Pace Fld Pl Fld Sz Temp
                            4/17/2023   Easy   5.0 mi    52:10 10:26     57
                            4/18/2023   Easy   5.0 mi    51:00 10:13     52
                            4/20/2023   Easy   4.9 mi    50:45 10:22     57
                            4/21/2023   Easy   5.2 mi    54:09 10:25     63
                            4/22/2023   Easy   3.0 mi    31:45 10:35     54
                            4/23/2023

                            Jersey Cith Half Marathon

                            Race 13.3 mi 1:57:26  8:49 705 2655 57

                            HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                             

                            2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              Darkwave - Congrats on the 800m... progress for sure.

                               

                              Kathi - awkward is definitely a word that comes to mind with the VF's at times - it's not until you really speed up they start to feel comfortable.

                               

                              Mick - ignore what I said about the long run, I'll defer to DWave on anything marathon-related.

                               

                              Watson - I finally ran in the VF3's this morning, ironically, just to give them a test out on a decent workout before the race in a couple weeks. To me they feel a little firmer than the VF2's but very similar otherwise.  The upper is definitely more comfortable.  I'll almost certainly use them in Wanaka.  Also... 4am starts on a weekend... good job getting it done with all that happening.  I remember getting up at 4am on Sunday to get long runs in before my wife went to work a few years ago... that was tough.

                               

                              Fred - congrats on your race and hopefully we can get a RR soon.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                              Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              Half Crazy K 2.0


                                 

                                Kathi - awkward is definitely a word that comes to mind with the VF's at times - it's not until you really speed up they start to feel comfortable.

                                 

                                 

                                Fred - congrats on your race and hopefully we can get a RR soon.

                                 

                                Hopefully Fred doesn't mind, link to his race report.