Forums >Racing>2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Half - good week, steady with some quality and strenght! Thanks for sharing
Fred - did you never attempt to run a whole marathon, or you had to run/walk? I passed (and got passed, and then passed again) a lot of runners, that couldn't keep running. This started at around 25km. But got really intense after 35km. A lot of people on the last stretch just ran out of (mental) fuel. I passed one guy with a team singlet from the UK and I told him common mate, it's not that far, you can do it, come with me. He thanked me, said he needed to hear that and that it was so frustrating that you could not even see the finish line, eventhough you could hear it. He passed me and then a couple of minutes, literally 500 meters before the finish line he just started walking again. I guess that is more a mental exhaustion than a physical one.
Also - I thought to myself right when the gun went off and disregarding the cost of trains, hotel etc: wow I only had to pay 97 bucks to experience all of this, and I got a shirt and will get a medal if I finish. This is great. It makes so much sense to take part in as many local runs as possible, if it attracts a good crowd and is well organized. And I will forever remember how I saw the city / finish line at the horizon and how I crawled and it never got any closer My mantra has always been, to spend my money on experiences rather than material things. And I got both!
Darkwave - yes you are right of course - I mention that I never want to run again and then fantasize about Berlin....I was hallucinating. Apparently not very uncommon with runners dreaming of a redemption race shortly after being defeated. But unfortunately Berlin is already full...I will have to find a flat and nice marathon near home, maybe London! I have to ask my Rubiks Cube friend, how to get in. Or possibly Amsterdam, although this is where Rune got injured.
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
JamesD
Steve- On mental tricks, I have a tip that has worked well for me in short races and might work in the first part of a marathon: all else equal, it’s better to follow/focus on a woman ahead of you than a man. In my 5Ks, it’s common to see men starting out at around 4 min/km pace who are in decent general shape but don’t have enough endurance to sustain the pace. Their form usually is poor, and after a while they look like they’re laboring, even before they start to fade. Women starting out at that pace are much more likely to be experienced, serious runners who will run smoothly and hold a steady pace. I’ve also read about studies that say women are better at holding their pace in marathons than are men.
If I’m following someone who is laboring, I tend to feel like I’m laboring, and I have thoughts like, “This guy looks bad, & I’m behind him, so I must really be struggling.” If I’m following someone who is running smoothly and easily, it’s much more likely that I’ll feel like holding the pace is easy. (I suppose that the someone could be a man, but a man running smoothly and easily probably would be a long way ahead of me.) I’m not suggesting doing this in a creepy breathing-down-the-neck way, of course, just that if there are four people within 20 meters ahead of you, focus on the woman rather than any of the three men.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Hot Weather Complainer
James - That's interesting and makes sense. I definitely see people labouring early on but my thought process is often "I'll be passing them and never seeing them again"...then sometimes it doesn't happen! My next race will provide a different sort of challenge - the 2 marathons I've started have been "mass" starts (obviously not at NY or Boston levels) with plenty of congestion to slow me down and people to latch on to. Selwyn won't have that, I expect to be alone for 95+% of the race but you never know.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Waltons ThreadLord
I have some races coming up, but I haven't seen Zebano around here in a while. I'll post them just in case he's watching and can get them onto the list.
5/21 - Greta's Run 5k
6/3 - Federal Twist 10k
6/14 - Patrick's Downtown Run to Summer 5k
7/4 - Firecracker 4M
9/3 - Mercer County Half
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12
Mick, I used run/walk for my marathon (and basically any time it is warm out and I race more than a 5k). It winds up beinng a bit faster for me than what winds up being run 45-60 minutes fairly strong and then overheat and hate life for over an hour. With the marathon, I passed a lot of people in the second halff (small race) and I think I only got passed 2x.
James, I wind up getting into a weird lull when I start following people in races. If they slow, I slow, if they speed up, I speed up.
Lots of us do that. That's why if you're going to follow someone and have a choice between a man & a woman, it's usually better to follow the woman, who is less likely to speed up or slow down dramatically. That's on average and not in every case, though.
For me the ideal is following someone who is running at an even pace just a little faster than I think I can sustain to the finish. Holding a hard pace on my own is much more difficult than doing it following someone.
Mick, I used run/walk for my marathon (and basically any time it is warm out and I race more than a 5k). It winds up beinng a bit faster for me than what winds up being run 45-60 minutes fairly strong and then overheat and hate life for over an hour. With the marathon, I passed a lot of people in the second halff (small race) and I think I only got passed 2x. James, I wind up getting into a weird lull when I start following people in races. If they slow, I slow, if they speed up, I speed up.
HK - I was so tempted to stop running and walk for a bit. And would have probably been faster too.
btw my Garmin prediction was really off - despite the hot weather - best case would have been 4:10 for me, maybe 4:05. But never 3:53 as predicted. So the marathon time was a good 25 minutes too optimistic (some 10%).
Lastly, I was so incredibly thirsty the second half of the race - I really envied all runners that hydration vests. I own a cool one too, but thought every 4-5k should be good enough. I wish I would have had more gatorate or water.....I was really really desperate.
James, the time I was really lulled into the pace of the runners in front of me was at one of the local women's distance festival races, so no men.
Mick, I've worn a Camelbak in a few HM years ago. It was nicce to be able to drink when I wanted and in the one it helped avoid some of the cluster that occurred at each water stop. It also kept it cool for longer. Cold water just tastes better than lukewarm.
Weeks ending May 6 & May 13:
As was the case last year, I took three off days in the last four before my 5K in Omaha. Didn’t seem to hurt much, and it may have helped that I did some strides on the non-off day. On the day-and-a-half 17-hour drive home, I kept the heat on in the seat in DW’s new car, alternating that occasionally with the cooling function. That certainly seemed to make my hamstrings feel good, but I’m not sure it actually helped much, as I stopped Friday’s run a couple of miles early because of tightness.
Race Report - Invest in Yourself 5K, Omaha, Nebraska, Sunday May 7, 2023
This race is held the day after the annual shareholders meeting of Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffet’s holding company. Berkshire owns Brooks, and Brooks puts on the race. DW and I attended & raced last year as well. This year’s course was hillier than last year’s but not bad, with 125 feet of elevation gain. 16 turns is a lot for a 5K, but it didn’t seem as choppy as last year’s. With 2,100 runners, it was larger than what I’m used to, especially considering that the start was in one lane of a street. (The congestion may have saved me a few seconds, as by the time I made it to the starting line, I had reached a decent speed.) I wasn’t expecting a fast time, because between illness in December/January and a calf injury in March, I hadn’t built up to many long runs and had done basically no fast running except for strides in almost six months (fastest was 3 miles at about 15 sec/mile slower than half marathon pace). Also, my easy run pace had been a good bit slower than in previous years.
DW and I drove from our hotel and parked less than a block from the downtown park where the race started & ended. The temperature as we warmed up was in the high 50s (14-15), much warmer than last year, but it was windy enough that we were cold, so I warmed up in 2 shirts & a beanie. After my strides, I took off my long-sleeved shirt. While we were in the corral, the sun came out and it started to warm up. (The temperature rose about 10 degrees (~5C) in the first 30 minutes of the race.) I didn’t have anywhere to put the beanie, so I took it off & carried it the whole way.
Brooks brings a lot of employees from around the country to the annual meeting, and the company has its own internal meetings the week after the Berkshire one. Last year’s male & female winners were both Brooks employees we had met at Berkshire events, and when I saw a slim young woman just ahead of me in the corral wearing kit & shoes with prominent Brooks labels, I figured she might be an employee. As it turned out, she wasn’t that much faster than me, but her form looked so smooth that I wondered if she had run at university a few years earlier and hadn’t trained much since.
As usual, I started slowly because of my hamstrings and eased into it. Also as usual, after about 400 meters I began to pass people who had started too fast. I focused on the smooth-running Brooks woman, who stayed 2-3 people ahead of me but kept passing slowing men, who I would then pass too. The first two miles were mainly flat or downhill as we ran most of a rectangle downtown and then ran out between the convention center and the river that divides Nebraska and Iowa. As is usually the case in rustbuster races, I felt like I was going a bit harder than tempo effort but didn’t have a higher gear. I wasn’t pushing hard enough that the frequent turns were a problem.
Just before the two-mile mark, I started to feel my left hamstring, so I tried to keep running steadily while staying within myself. I missed the one-mile marker, but my average pace for the first two miles was 6:18, much faster than I had expected. The second half of the third mile had a long uphill incline, and between that and being cautious with the hamstring my third mile was around 6:31, but it didn’t feel like I was slowing much. On the incline and when we returned downtown for the finish, the Brooks woman pulled away and finished 23 seconds ahead of me. I continued to pass people who were fading, and one or two people sprinted past me at the end.
I was pleasantly surprised with my 19:47, which is on the faster end of what I usually do in rustbuster races, especially given how little race-specific preparation I had done. I doubt the course was short; MapMyRun showed it as 3.25 miles. I was 35/2,116, and 1/66 M60-64. It looks like I set an age group record for the race (apparently first held in 2013), though it won’t last for long if the 57-year-old who beat me by a minute keeps coming to the meeting and the race. DW also ran but was way overdressed; while I was cooling down and looking for her, I saw her carrying a jacket, which I took so she could speed up to finish. Her time was 37:15, a minute slower than last year. She decided that, unlike me, she does better in cold weather. Oddly, after the race my left calf hurt more and was tighter than my left hamstring, even though it was the hamstring that I had felt during the race.
After the race, the Brooks CEO (who gave out the awards) was hanging out with a bunch of Brooks employees who had run, and DW buttonholed him about sportsbras, explaining how much she had liked his company’s since-discontinued line (as opposed to its current line). He chatted briefly with her and passed her to an apparently senior woman who pleasantly discussed bra design details that were beyond my comprehension or interest. DW came away unconvinced that the company’s future products would address her concerns, but the conversation seemed like it might be interesting if one was into that sort of thing.
Sun, April 30 - 37 minutes swimming
Mon - 8.3 miles in park AM @ 8:45, L hamstring sore late
Tues - 6.2 miles in park PM @ 8:37, L hamstring sore late
Weds - off, driving to Omaha
Thurs - off, driving to Omaha
Fri - 3.5 miles including 37.5 minutes very slow on hotel treadmill & strides
Sat - off, Berkshire-Hathaway annual meeting
Total - 18 miles
Sun, May 7 - 6.2 miles including Invest in Yourself 5K in 19:47, 35/2,116 and 1/66 M60-64
Mon - off, driving home
Tues - 5 miles in park, ran too fast b/c of thunder
Weds - 5 miles very slow on treadmill (60:20) with 40-second walk breaks/6:00
Thurs - 32 mins swimming
Fri - 6.2 miles in park AM @ 8:52, stopped w/L hamstring tightness
Sat - 7.6 miles very slow on treadmill (92:00) with 40-second walk breaks/6:00
Total - 30 miles
YTD Average - 34.6 mpw
Fred - good point, yes Zebano has been a bit quiet lately, tbh I don't recall seeing him a lot on Strava either. Hope everything is OK.
MJ - well done getting it done in what sounds like pretty tough conditions. I'm tossing up a hydration vest for next Sunday's trail race, but it's "only" 17km so I may just take my handheld bottle instead. Even with some big hills I don't think I'll be running long enough to justify a hydration vest, and worst case I'll just refill my bottle at an aid station.
James - I seem to recall seeing Garmin doing something similar annually, having a race at their HQ or something like that. Sounds like a pleasing result for a rustbuster, well done.
Me - decent recovery week. Took it pretty easy the first half of the week and then started throwing some hills in there towards the end of the week. Gonna need the practice... next Sunday's trail race has some tough ones. Weather has been awesome the last few days, just like autumn hasn't been up until now.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
James - That's a great result for the first race in a while, with a dodgy hammy and 16 turns!
me - Pretty big week. In fact, just had a look and it's my second biggest, 1km off my biggest. The key session was yesterday and it went really well, just felt stronger throughout and no sign of cramp. Had 2 electrolyte drinks and 4 gels so it was a pretty good dress rehearsal. Another med long to back up today. My calf had a dull ache for the second half of the run so I'll manage that with self massage and keep an eye on it. Volume will start to drop a little, although my coach has said not as much as last time. I'll push back as required though. My fatigue levels feel perfectly fine which is surprising given the last few weeks.
<caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
Mother of Cats
James, the time I was really lulled into the pace of the runners in front of me was at one of the local women's distance festival races, so no men. Mick, I've worn a Camelbak in a few HM years ago. It was nicce to be able to drink when I wanted and in the one it helped avoid some of the cluster that occurred at each water stop. It also kept it cool for longer. Cold water just tastes better than lukewarm.
Interesting - I didn't realize that the Camelbak was insulated and could keep the water cool. I can see how that would be refreshing.
James - nice job on the rustbuster. Sub-20 is not bad at all, especially given your injury woes.
I have to admit, I'd love to know more about the sports bra discussion. I know that there's a wide array of opinions about sports bras and how they should fit. To the point where my running team doesn't have an official uniform sportsbra. You just buy something red and get it screened with the logo.
MArky_mark - so where was Lake Okahu? empty?
Steve - once again, really strong week. I love what I'm seeing from your coach and you.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
My week:
55 miles running, 1000 yards swimming and 3 hours pool-running.M: 90 minutes pool-running. T: 10 miles, including a track workout of 6x800, split as 3:16, 3:15, 3:17 with 2:30 recovery between each, then a 5:00 recovery, and then 3:13, 3:13, 3:14 with over 3 minute recoveries after each. Followed with lower body strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimmingW: Streaming yoga and 10 miles very easy (9:30) plus drills.Th: 90 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core. F: 10 miles, including a 6400m tempo in 27:47 (7:01/6:59/6:58/6:49) plus 4x200 in 48 seconds each. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Sa: 10.5 miles (9:18), followed by drills/strides and streaming yoga.Su: 14 miles progressive, split as the first 4 miles averaging 9:31, the next 6 miles averaging 8:21, and the next 4 miles averaging 7:56 pace. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming later.
This was a somewhat rough week - my asthma acted up on Tuesday, so I modified the workout. For the track workouts, my team usually breaks into different pace groups (this is organic, rather than prescribed). My paces have me between groups currently, so I usually tuck in behind the faster group so that I can keep my recoveries short. But on Tuesday this wasn't working for me, so I took a long break after the third 800 so that I could then run at the front of the slower group and have longer recoveries.
(as for the obvious question of why I didn't just run on my own? Our coach times the workouts, and me running by myself would just be one additional interval that he would be trying to keep track of. It's much easier for the person timing the workout if people group up into 3-5 different packs, so that you only need to keep 3-5 intervals going on the timing app).
It's also warming up here, and I'm not acclimated yet, so I had to back off of my paces on Sunday to keep the run in the proper effort level. Usually I try to prep for the summer by doing some sauna sessions (15-20 minutes at 180 degrees) in March and April, but I've neglected those in the last few weeks, and now I'm paying for it. Noted for next year.
Darkwave - bummer regarding the allergies. But those are still very consistent weeks! Are you doing less cross training as a consequence? Do you have a sauna at home? And what is streaming yoga? Couldn't you combine steamroom and yoga maybe, or is that not right up your alley?
Half - my vest does not cool down unfortunately. But any water is good, when you are thirsty I think. I have to give it a go next time.
Mark - bottle in hand - Jim Walmsley springs to mind. Will look out for your trail debut report!!!
James - nice report. I follow Berkshire closely; great to know that you are a shareholder. You must be loaded those are expensive stocks!!!
Sounds great regarding the race, great effort!!!!
Darkwave - How do you differentiate between asthma acting up and allergies? Or is there no point in differentiating because the latter can cause the former? I hear you about acclimating to the heat. It seems to take me longer each year (or possibly, each year I get less tolerant of the heat).
Steve - Big week indeed, and good news that you didn't have cramping problems.
Mark - Nice recovery week. Best of luck with the weather.
James - I discovered heated seats are a very nice thing on my 2-hour drive home from a wet, cold, half a month ago, so I imagine they were great for your much longer drive. Great job on the sub-20 5k and the AG win.
Mick - I entered all three of my marathons hoping to run the whole way (other than when I needed to slow for crowded water stops), but it didn't work out. The closest I got was mile 20 in NYC, when my hamstring suddenly felt really tight. What I didn't know then was the muscle was fine and instead I had a bulging disk pressing on my sciatic nerve. Great job on finishing your marathon - I like your description of how you'll remember it.
HCK - I somehow missed seeing the summary of your previous week. Do you have regular rest days, or just take them when you need them?
Hydration Vests - I may have to invest in one for this summer's training. In the past I've just used a belt with a water bottle that I can refill at various parks along my long-run route, but this year I want to run more hills as I train for NYC and there will be fewer refill opportunities. I think I saw a separate thread on recommendations and various styles - I'll have to check it out.