>Racing>2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
4 months should give you a decent run at it, Fred. If I was to ever come out of marathon retirement, it would only be for a really big race like the NYC marathon.
Word. When are you going?Whenever I look at your marathon time, I shake my head in disbelieve; there is so much potential there...
Fred - good luck - great time to start with the fires still lingering and the heat waves....like they say in the NY NY song, if you can make it through summer, you can make it anywhere!
MJ - IDK, I just don't feel very motivated to attempt another marathon. The only time I've really stopped enjoying running was in the middle of marathon training... and I've always been pretty broken for a couple months afterwards. It's been great finding different challenges to enjoy like the Xterra series and I'm doing the Auckland Half Marathon series again from Oct through to Apr so I've got at least the next 9 months sorted events-wise.
My week done and dusted. The cold that was threatening last week finally hit me Tuesday... only wrote off one day of training but played it safe and took it pretty easy the rest of the week. It's not that bad, just seems to be hanging around a bit.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Omaha HM, 3 Dec, pushed the limits.
Up next: The Goat, 20 Jan, don't die.
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
After a few weeks of my hamstrings & glutes being less of a problem than usual, on Wednesday I bought my first plated shoes - nylon, not carbon - a pair of Endorphin Speed 3s. They certainly felt fast (and different) when I tried them out with some strides. My hamstrings & glutes were sore afterwards; most of the soreness went away during my run later that day but was back the next morning. Wore them for the last three of my four 800s on Friday (my first track workout since 2021, so rusty) and had a similar experience - lower hamstring and back-of-knee soreness immediately after which went away during my cooldown run. Looks like I’m going to have to ease gradually into using them.
Sun - off
Mon - 10.1 miles in park AM @ 8:28, temp 84/29, TDP 159
Tues - 7.5 miles very slow split (60:25 AM, 30 PM) on treadmill w/40-second walk breaks/6:00
Weds - 0.8 miles jogging to running store & trying out shoes
Weds - 7.8 miles in park PM @ 8:39, temp 90/32, TDP 160
Thurs - 50 minutes swimming
Fri - 6.8 miles in park & on track AM incl. strides, 4x800 @ 3:09, temp 85/29, TDP 156
Sat - 7.5 miles very slow split (60:25AM+30PM) on treadmill with 40-second walk breaks/6:00
Total - 40.5 miles
YTD Average - 37.5 mpw
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'23 Goals: health; consistency; age-graded PRs; half < 1:30
Mark and James - nice weeks.
James - it's pretty common to have soreness above the knee with the plated shoes (even though it's more the foam than the plate).
My week was reasonable. Two strength workouts, plus Parkrun which was a whole 1s quicker than 3 weeks ago.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
Kia ora, everyone.
A tough start to the week for me, with Mon, Tues, and Weds off with a cold that knocked me and my wife out. It wasn't a great start to the school holidays.
My week: an abysmal failure - not even reaching 31 miles or 50 kilometres! Hoping for a better week starting tomorrow!
50+ age-group PBs: Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42
2023 Goals: Perish Run Sub 3:15 - Road/Track 10km Sub 37:30 - 5km Sub 18:20
Hot Weather Complainer
watson - I'm guessing that Park Run is not a quick course?
Hash - Yuck, hope you get back on track soon.
My week - First real week back into full work. Some nice variety, with speed and hills. Wednesday was hard work but Saturday felt great. The run on Sunday was fun in a weird way - there were severe gales blowing me into the middle of the road (better than off a cliff), almost zero visibility and heavy rain. Saw 2 other runners and 1 cyclist, normally there are hundreds up on Summit Road. It really feels comfortable running along there now, 2 years ago I was working really hard on those hills. My extra strength definitely helps.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024
Christchurch Marathon April 21, 2024
Mother of Cats
Marky_Mark - I think we're all in agreement (especially on this thread) - there is no reason to train for and run marathons if you don't enjoy it.
James - interesting observations on the new shoes. Did you feel any difference on the 800s between old and new pairs?
Watson - 1 second is still positive progress! Nice week.
Hash - sorry to hear about the cold. Hopefully you got all the bad stuff out of the way this week, and can reboot next week.
Steve - I love your coach's workouts. How does he distinguish between tempo and LT? Some use the two interchangeably - yours clearly does not.
65 miles/105k running, 500 yards swimming, and 90 minutes pool-running.M: 10 miles, including a track workout of 2x1200, 2x800, 2x400, 2x200 in 5:02, 4:58, 3:17, 3:16, 97, 96, 47, 47. Recoveries of 2:3x-2:4x in between. Followed with leg strengthwork.T: 6.5 miles very easy (9:51), cheer at a 5K, 3.5 miles easy (8:58), and streaming yoga.W: 10 miles very easy on treadmill (9:34) and upper body weights/coreTh: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yogaF: 10 miles, including 5 Iwo Jima hills (alternate route - this was about 2:30 up, then 60 second jog; 30 second stride, and 60 seconds to bottom of hill.) Followed with leg strengthwork.Sa: 10.5 miles easy (9:42), plus drills/strides and upper body weights/core.Su: 14 miles progressive, split as first 5 miles averaging 10:05 pace, next 5.5 averaging 8:17 pace, next 3.5 averaging 7:56 pace, and then a half-mile cooldown. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.
My land mileage is inflated because I moved a pool-running day from Monday to Saturday of the week before.
Just trying to build some fitness/strength before getting serious about marathon training. The week started better than it ended, but that's probably because the weather got worse as the week went on.
The only other thing of note is that the infamous Iwo Jima hill workout got revised. Essentially there is a traditional Iwo Jima hill workout that my running team used to do. The team stopped the workout when the original route was repaved in concrete - I don't mind concrete at all, so I kept doing the workout solo. But now my coach figured out an alternate route up and down the hill, so I did that one with the team on Friday.
The biggest change from the alternate route is that the hill part is now about 20-30 seconds longer, and the recovery jog before the stride is now about 20-30 seconds shorter. This makes the workout a lot harder.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
darkwave - Really nice week. Your updated Iwo Jima workout sounds brutal, recoveries are always too short towards the end of a workout as it is.
"T" in the above is actually Threshold (Aerobic) or Zone 4. He uses HR ranges on those blocks, usually wanting me to stay in the mid range of the HR zone but also wants me to push it sometimes. He relies heavily on having the zones set correctly which is why it was so annoying to forget my HRM for my threshold test 5km last week. He wants me to do a Speed/Threshold test again in 2 weeks which is one they use at High Performance Sport NZ - running as fast as I can hold for 30 minutes, adjusting pace up or down as required but basically asking myself "Can I hold this for 30 mins" continuously through the workout. He thinks I may be able to do it at faster or similar to the pace I did the 5km last week, but obviously it should be somewhere between my true 5km and 10km pace.
Hash - that's a good week for an "abysmal failure"! It's not that bad a week!
Steve - Nice week. Yes, it's not the quickest course. Quite a lot of bends, four stop bank climbs, two 180s and around 1km on dirt trail. I should still be able to sneak sub 20 thought.
Darkwave - nice week. Jilma hill looks hard.
Treshold and LT are such open to interpretation terms.
Last week. Odd week, I was off Monday and Tuesday and then had a dentist appoint Friday morning, so my usual schedule was all thrown off. During Saturday's run, a guy was changing by his car. So I spent the recoveries betweeen strides going "is he naked", "yep, naked". Eventually he put pants on and took some trash over to the dumpster. Very odd.
Monday am 3.5 easy pm 20 minutes easy on the treadmill + a core workout
Tuesday 6 with 12 x 200 pm lower bosy strength
Wednesday 5.5 easy
Thursday upper body & core
Friday 2.7 easy
Saturday 3.3 with strides and upper body
Sunday 5 wth 4 x 2 min and 4 x 200 plus lower body strength
James - interesting observations on the new shoes. Did you feel any difference on the 800s between old and new pairs?
I ran the first 800 in Pegasus Turbo 2s and the next 3 in the Speeds, with more rest after the first one because of changing shoes. It's hard to describe, but I felt less ground impact with the Speeds. Walking in them felt odd, like there was too much cushioning on the inside of my heels, but that wasn't a problem while running. Some of the reviews had said that walking in them wasn't comfortable. My times were 3:13 for the Turbo 2s and 3:05-3:05-3:10 for the Speeds at the same effort. Some of the difference may have been because my first of a set is usually the slowest, but I expect the shoes helped too.
The workout was on Friday, and I got in my usual 7.5-mile split treadmill recovery on Saturday and 8.3-mile moderate/steady run on Sunday, but my left knee has had a bit more swelling and aching each day. I didn't swim today in hopes that the rest would help. Don't know how much of that is due to the workout/new shoes and how much of it might be the result of having to stand longer than usual a few times recently. My plan is to do a 2-mile tempo in the new shoes on Friday, so we'll see how that goes.
Hash - I'm with Watson... almost 50km is hardly an abysmal failure! Maybe not what you'd planned but still not bad. And school holidays... our daughter spent the first week sick (like me), threw up in the car on Saturday (made for a fun cleanup for yours truly), then had both her front baby teeth fall out on Sunday. Definitely riding the rollercoaster!!
James - I really like the Speeds so hopefully your body adapts to them. I find the 3's to be a little less poppy than the 2's were but they're still very fun.
Steve - it's weird how sometimes those absolutely horrible weather days can be strangely good fun. The run I remember most vividly from last year was slogging it into a gale along Tamaki Drive in the dark in the middle of winter with the waves crashing on the shoreline (and occasionally spraying me).
Kathi - I want to say that thankfully that's one thing I've never seen on a run, but unfortunately a few months ago there was a guy happily urinating in public next to a busy road / footpath (and only about 100m from a public toilet!). Ugh.
Watson - nice work.
Darkwave - that sounds like a fun track workout with the descending distances. The hill workout sounds tougher too... especially with strides during the "recovery". I tend to work off around 1:1 effort:recovery as mostly I just jog back down the hill. Although one time my coach did change it up by making me go steady up the hill and then really hammer the downhill. Using the uphills as the recovery was not particularly fun.
James, I've been wearing plated shoes for workouts over the last tow months or so. i definitely noticed more hamstring soreness when I wore them. I'm guessing my stride is a little different in them. I have the Speed 2s but desgnated them as my treadmill only shoes. They definitely feel a little strange walking--almost unstable, but I don't notice it when running.
Mark & Hash, hopefully your both feeling better. I've worked in a school for 20+ year (not directly with kids) and I swear before & after holidays all sorts of stuff goes around the building.
Hash calling his 50km week abysmal reminds me of all of my college mates who always claimed to be totally underprepared on exam day followed by fantastic grades. Making me want to have an abysmal day myself. I think we call it sandbagging here in the forum 😂 What are those fast morning runs of 3km though? Commute to work, or just going out for 15 minutes to wake up - or really part of your training schedule? I know Watson runs to the gym and back and I am just a curious person!
Mark - I am sure that the trail running experience will help you in transitioning to a slow twitch muscle fiber machine that will be competing with Daniel Jones (or was it Nathan?) at Tarawera next year or the year after that. Nonsence aside - I wouldn't think your training needs a lot of adaptation at this stage. By now your body has gone through some many training cycles? I know my perspective improving on 4:19h is a just a little different than yours going below 2:40h. Give it a try!!!
Steve - great week, you are a machine.
Darkwave - I would only partially agree but I have only run 1 marathon so far - I liked the training cycle, but didn't like the run on race day. It was a really cool event which I will never forget. But the running itself was quite humbling for me. If I stay injury free, I will report back in October/November.
Half - sounds like you really took your time observing the gentlemen Interestingly enough, I had a similar experience today - with a guy who unzipped his pants wanting to pee into the river as I was crossing a nearby bridge; I was so stunned, that I kept staring, wondering whether he would dare to do that. When he saw me, he quickly retreated into the woods. This world is really full of strange people.
Mick - Good for you to help out your friend. Pizza is always a nice reward for carrying boxes and furniture. You still got a lot of miles in.
Mark - If you don't want to run a marathon, there's no reason to do it. I probably wouldn't be running NYC if I were planning to go alone, but going with another person makes a big difference. Smart move on dialing it back for the cold.
James - Nice to hear your hamstrings and glutes aren't as much a problem lately. When I first wore plated shoes, I had some unusual soreness, but my legs seem to have adapted even though I go plated for maybe half my runs.
Watson - I agree that threshold and LT are often used differently among different people (and sometimes mean the same). Nice week and good job getting that extra second off on the ParkRun.
Steve - Good to hear you're doing what you consider a full week again. It's nice that your previous work is making the hills less difficult.
Hash - I tend to agree with the others that 30 miles is not a failure. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Darkwave - Interesting about the hill route changing because of the concrete. What was the surface before? Asphalt or dirt? Longer hill/shorter rest sounds tough indeed.
HCK - Runners get to see a lot of things, not always things we want to see, don't we? Nice week of running.
On Shoes - I like the Speed 2's as well (haven't tried the 3's). They're good long-run shoes as well as decent on the track.
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming race(s): Turkey Trot, 11/25; Hangover 5k, 1/1