Hansons vs. Pfitzinger (Read 2376 times)

     

    I think what it goes to show is that marathon success has a lot less to do with which canned plan you choose for the last 12, 16 or 18 weeks before the race than with lifetime miles and experience.

     

    Disclaimer #1: The one and only time I ran a marathon, 1979, was before uncoached amateurs could access plans off the internet; yeah, there were books one could buy, but all of the folks I knew simply ran (and ran, and ran, and ran).

     

    Disclaimer #2: I've never had the desire to run another marathon (one of those, "been there, done that, got the tee-shirt" kind of things), so all I have to go on regarding "plans" is what I've read anecdotally from y'all.

     

    With the above disclaimers in place, I've never even remotely understood why a marathon plan (for non-elite amateurs) would include speed work of any sort.  Are any of us going to be required to dig deep and nail some sub-five minute final miles and then out sprint a competitor to secure a podium spot?  I'm thinking kind of unlikely.  So, without the "need for speed", why wouldn't many (most, all?) marathon training plans for non-elites concentrate on building an impressive mileage base for sustaining the fastest overall pace for any given runner and completely forego speed work?


    I'm back!

      bhearn - great post. I am just coming back from 2 mos. off. Nov. - Jan. Ramping back up, hoping for a repeat just sub 3 at Boston with 12 weeks true training. Have been Pfitz for 7 marathons, but I feel like the early speed of Hansons might be an advantage in an abbreviated cycle. Thoughts?

       

      Hmm. In that circumstance I'd be tempted, again, to back-load the speed. Right now you need to be increasing mileage, and you don't want to be increasing quality at the same time. But what do I know. Why would you think early speed would be an advantage in an abbreviated cycle? Also, going from zero to a fast marathon in 3 months seems pretty challenging to me, after two months off.

       

      FWIW Napa is no longer a goal race for me; I had to get another PRP injection in mid January, building back from that now. I could perhaps at this point think about a 12-week plan for Boston, but my priority is Western States, and I think I will just gradually build mileage for now. I don't want to risk relapsing.

        With the above disclaimers in place, I've never even remotely understood why a marathon plan (for non-elite amateurs) would include speed work of any sort.  Are any of us going to be required to dig deep and nail some sub-five minute final miles and then out sprint a competitor to secure a podium spot?  I'm thinking kind of unlikely.  So, without the "need for speed", why wouldn't many (most, all?) marathon training plans for non-elites concentrate on building an impressive mileage base for sustaining the fastest overall pace for any given runner and completely forego speed work?

         

        There is very little speed work in most marathon plans--it is a tiny percentage of the overall mileage--and the focus is generally on building a mileage base.

         

        That said I think it's a good idea to train at a variety of paces to develop your stride and form and to become more efficient/comfortable at higher speeds. But the focus in marathon training should be (and is) on endurance and stamina.

         

        Personally, whether marathon training or not marathon training I try to at least touch every pace from mile to marathon at least once every 10 days.

        Runners run.

          With the above disclaimers in place, I've never even remotely understood why a marathon plan (for non-elite amateurs) would include speed work of any sort.  Are any of us going to be required to dig deep and nail some sub-five minute final miles and then out sprint a competitor to secure a podium spot?  I'm thinking kind of unlikely.  So, without the "need for speed", why wouldn't many (most, all?) marathon training plans for non-elites concentrate on building an impressive mileage base for sustaining the fastest overall pace for any given runner and completely forego speed work?

           

          How are you defining speed work?  There are many varieties that I think any and all runners benefit from.

           

          While I agree that building the impressive mileage base is going to be a key (if not the most important) ingredient, I think that running miles at race pace (which I would consider to be speed work) or even short fartlek sessions will always benefit runners of all paces.

          And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

           

          Rob

             

            How are you defining speed work?  There are many varieties that I think any and all runners benefit from.

             

            While I agree that building the impressive mileage base is going to be a key (if not the most important) ingredient, I think that running miles at race pace (which I would consider to be speed work) or even short fartlek sessions will always benefit runners of all paces.

             

            Hmmm, interesting definition of speed work; personally I've never considered marathon pace, or even half marathon pace, speed work of any kind. That said, if I've still feeling like I have something left in the tank as I'm nearing the three-quarter mark of a long run, I'll amp up the pace considerably, so I suppose that might qualify as speed work.  Then there are the occasional 5K to 10K races; those to me are definitely speed work.  Smile


            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

               

              Hmmm, interesting definition of speed work; personally I've never considered marathon pace, or even half marathon pace, speed work of any kind....

               

              In contrast, I consider both MP and HMP as speedwork.

               

              Both are faster than my average easy runs; the latter (half marathon pace) is much faster, for me.

               

              I guess I lump in anything requiring pushing as speedwork, whether it is just faster than easy, or all out sprinting, or anything in-between.

              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                 

                In contrast, I consider both MP and HMP as speedwork.

                 

                Both are faster than my average easy runs; the latter (half marathon pace) is much faster, for me.

                 

                I guess I lump in anything requiring pushing as speedwork, whether it is just faster than easy, or all out sprinting, or anything in-between.

                 

                Hmmm, well, I suppose by that definition, I do speed work at least a few times per week.  Smile


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  What kind of stuff do you distinguish, amongst that large cloud of running harder?

                   

                  I think I saw that McMillan distinguishes stamina, strength, and speed.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.