A practical application of socialist ideas (Read 1172 times)


Feeling the growl again

     

    It's not a question as to what the answer to those issue are.  The question is what the Federal Government should legislate. 

    I believe that's the fundamental difference between the two, and quite honestly, I don't believe the Republican party (and their supporters) fully understand the role of the Federal Government.  

     

    I think it's fair to say that we've seen a steady progression towards the consolidation of power at the federal level through the administrations of both parties.  Really, what CAN'T they stretch the Commerce Clause to cover?

     

    This morning I had a phone conversation with one of my good Southern co-workers, in South Carolina.  As the primary was going on he was at a dinner event with a very mixed audience....HS to PhD educated, Dem to Rep, lib to conservative, they were all over the map.  His takeaway was that the common thread of concern...and a reason Gingrich saw so much support...was the loss of individual (and state's) rights.

     

    I'm not sure there is a bigger fearmonger and divisive factor out there than Gingrich though.  I don't understand how he's even in this.

     

    As for what is reasonable, one has to remember that there are different lenses here.  Most of the gun control legislation proposed is not seen as reasonable (or even effective at preventing crime) to anyone who is impacted and/or cares about the 2nd Amendment.  Most of the people who are against illegal immigration at the borders are not xenophobes, they just want people to go through legal channels like every other developed country (and most underdeveloped ones) enforces.

     

    I've got an immigrant in my house right now.  He's mad as hell that he spent something like 15-20 years attaining citizenship (and offered to volunteer for war to get it) yet now we're talking about handing it to people who ignored the laws of the land and snuck in.  From his lens, that doesn't seem so unreasonable to me...

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

    I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

     

      On abortion: I'm a choice guy, so I want to trust it to individuals, not the federal gov. or the state gov.

       

       

      Ok, if choice is what you want and believe in, then why leave it to the federal government when that's not what they're commissioned to be responsible for.
      As an individual, fight for your state to get permission.

      Life Goals:

      #1: Do what I can do

      #2: Enjoy life

       

       


      Why is it sideways?

        I've got an immigrant in my house right now.  He's mad as hell that he spent something like 15-20 years attaining citizenship (and offered to volunteer for war to get it) yet now we're talking about handing it to people who ignored the laws of the land and snuck in.  From his lens, that doesn't seem so unreasonable to me...

         

        All fair points. This is personal anecdote again, but I also have an immigrant in my house (my wife), and we were extremely frustrated by the process of immigration. However, we are not angry at those who came here without papers at all. Actually we identify with their hardship and are glad that as bad as our experiences were trying to immigrate the legal way, we are very happy that we had a legal possibility to move where we as individuals wanted to live instead of having to perform civil disobedience or live in constant fear of the police to make the lives we dreamed of. Smile

          I like your thinking about up vs. down. But it's also true that we are in the process of making a choice about the president, and that choice is, for better or worse (probably worse), left or right, dem or repub.

           

          I fully agree with this statement.  The truth is that (for better or for worse), we're looking at a left / right election.

           

          I believe that one of the challenges of our generation is to have people understand the 2nd axis.  We need to have people understand that the issues aren't always left vs. right.

           

          How, when, or whether that'll get addressed scares me.

          Life Goals:

          #1: Do what I can do

          #2: Enjoy life

           

           

            I don't expect that many will agree with me, but I think that the economic issues get overplayed, as frankly I do not see much difference between the two parties on economics

             

            I agree for reasons that I stated in my other responses (focus on left vs. right rather than up vs. down.)

             

            Both parties are destined to continue with what we got economically, which is bad.  

            This makes the basic differentiator social issues (which is bad).

             

            We need a vision.

            We need a dream.

            We need direction from a leader who can inspire a people to believe something different than we currently believe.

             

            (and the solution to this challenge is not simple.  I don't think that anybody knows the answer to our challenge.)

            Life Goals:

            #1: Do what I can do

            #2: Enjoy life

             

             

            juniordo1


              If you notice, almost all of the conservative responses on this thread are backed by an anecdote either from their own life, a friend, or family member who did something exceptional or praise-worthy. It's a very strange mode of political argument to me, and it's totally unconvincing (to me) because it makes an appeal to private experience. What is it about being a conservative that makes one think this sort of argumentation would be successful?

               

              Really, this baffles me. I'm not trying to be contrary here.

               

              I'm ceratinly not looking for praise and don't consider what I've done exceptional. I'm  just offering my opionion that there are other possibilities than being dependent on the government for opportunities. Getting a job, working hard and taking advantage of opportunities as they present themselves is something everyone should strive for.

               

              Just because Johnny down the street can't afford the substantial student loan debt he would incur by attending college for four years without working doesn't mean he can't go to college. It simply means he might have to take a little longer and be more creative in how he pays for it.

               

              I'm baffled as to why personal one's personal experience is reason for rejection of the possibility as a whole.

              2013 -Sub 2:00 for 1/2 marathon


              Why is it sideways?

                I'm ceratinly not looking for praise and don't consider what I've done exceptional. I'm  just offering my opionion that there are other possibilities than being dependent on the government for opportunities. Getting a job, working hard and taking advantage of opportunities as they present themselves is something everyone should strive for.

                 

                I'm baffled as to why personal one's personal experience is reason for rejection of the possibility as a whole.

                 

                Your first paragraph: every American believes this. Not just conservatives.

                 

                Your second paragraph (that I quoted): I never said that personal experience is a reason for rejection of an argument. It just is never a reason for accepting an argument. Personal anecdotes are always ad hoc reasoning. They can show, perhaps, how an individual came to a point of view, but they are never reasons for another person to accept that point of view, since they are always private reasons, not public reasons.


                Why is it sideways?

                   

                  We need a vision.

                  We need a dream.

                  We need direction from a leader who can inspire a people to believe something different than we currently believe.

                   

                  (and the solution to this challenge is not simple.  I don't think that anybody knows the answer to our challenge.)

                   

                  Actually, Obama gave us all of these things; that's why people voted for him. But the Republicans, quite literally, opposed his every move perhaps because they realized that his brand of politics was a total threat to the status quo.

                   

                  By the way, here's Ron Paul on states rights, in case you think I was overplaying the extent to which states rights is code for that Southern thing. Yikes.

                  L Train


                    eh, not really on point. 

                     

                      Actually, Obama gave us all of these things; that's why people voted for him. But the Republicans, quite literally, opposed his every move perhaps because they realized that his brand of politics was a total threat to the status quo.

                       

                       

                      As it relates to vision, dream, and change, I'm not sure I buy into your comparison.

                       

                      I understood his change and dream to be left / right change.

                      And, in looking what the changes from the past 3 years, I'm not sure that he's guided the masses into understanding any better the changes as it relates to up vs. down change.

                       

                      --->

                      As it relates to the status quo.... Yes, radical change is scary, but radical change is necessary.  Not sure that left / right radical change is what anybody wants.

                       

                      Brian

                      Life Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do

                      #2: Enjoy life

                       

                       

                      Trent


                      Good Bad & The Monkey

                        We need a vision.

                        We need a dream.

                        We need direction from a leader who can inspire a people to believe something different than we currently believe.

                         

                        Well, I voted for a leader in 2008 who seemed to provide that.

                         

                        We also need people who will work with or follow the leader. We don't have that.

                         

                        MTA: Jeff beat me to it. KerCanDo70, yeah, for those who voted for him, that is exactly what he provided. A vision, a dream, inspiration to move into a post-political world. But the then-toxic political environment became more and more so. Mostly because the legislative branch has fought his every step, as Jeff said.

                          Well, I voted for a leader in 2008 who seemed to provide that.

                           

                          We also need people who will work with or follow the leader. We don't have that.

                           

                          Remind me what the changes that we could believe in represented.  What changes was he talking about?

                          (I agree that a good leader will have people follow him).

                          Life Goals:

                          #1: Do what I can do

                          #2: Enjoy life

                           

                           

                            By the way, here's Ron Paul on states rights, in case you think I was overplaying the extent to which states rights is code for that Southern thing. Yikes.

                             

                            Not really sure what you're trying to point out through this video...

                            (thanks for sharing)

                            Life Goals:

                            #1: Do what I can do

                            #2: Enjoy life

                             

                             

                            Trent


                            Good Bad & The Monkey

                              Change.

                              Reduce the power of lobbyists.

                              Reduce the partisanship

                              Reduce America's dependence on old fuels, on old infrastructure, on old disagreements

                              Rebuild a middle class, rebuild and streamline manufacturing

                              Strengthen science and math and education

                              End the wars

                              Etc.