A practical application of socialist ideas (Read 1168 times)


Fat butt on couch

    You'll never get me to buy into the fact that partisanship is the fault of one party.  You can argue "well they did it first", but that won't get us anywhere.  When my kids would get into an argument one would say "he or she started it.".  My response was "I don't care, you're both doing it now.".  I blame both parties equally.

     

    It's not easy, moving to bipartisanship.  I think that the thing that makes it toughest on both sides is the grief that you get from your own party when you try moving toward the middle.

     

    +1. 

     

    Regarding the last sentence, this is why I have been frustrated that none of this angst against the status quo has led to a viable third option that drew significant support away from BOTH established parties, forcing them to react in a positive manner.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

       Reminds me of a story by Russell Cronwell, this is part of it:

      "Will you tell me where I find
      diamonds?”

       

      "Diamonds! What do you want with
      diamonds?”

       

      “Why, I wish to be immensely
      rich.”

       

      “Well, then, go along and find them. That
      is all you have to do; go and find them, and then you have them.”

       

      “But I don’t know where to go.”

       

      “Well, if you will find a river that runs
      through white sands, between high mountains, in those white sands you will
      always find diamonds.”

       

      “I don’t believe there is any such
      river.”

       

      “Oh yes, there are plenty of them. All you
      have to do is to go and find them, and then you have them.”

       

      Said Ali Hafed, “I will go.”

       

      So he sold his farm, collected his money,
      left his family in charge of a neighbor, and away he went in search of diamonds.
      He began his search, very properly to my mind, at the Mountains of the Moon.
      Afterward he came around into Palestine, then wandered on into Europe, and at
      last when his money was all spent and he was in rags, wretchedness, and poverty,
      he stood on the shore of that bay at Barcelona, in Spain, when a great tidal
      wave came rolling in between the pillars of Hercules, and the poor, afflicted,
      suffering, dying man could not resist the awful temptation to cast himself into
      that incoming tide, and he sank beneath its foaming crest, never to rise in this
      life again.

       

      Then after that old guide had told me that
      awfully sad story, he stopped the camel I was riding on and went back to fix the
      baggage that was coming off another camel, and I had an opportunity to muse over
      his story while he was gone. I remember saying to myself, “Why did he reserve
      that story for his ‘particular friends’?” There seemed to be no beginning, no
      middle, no end, nothing to it.

       

      That was the first story I had ever heard
      told in my life, and would be the first one I ever read, in which the hero was
      killed in the first chapter. I had but one chapter of that story, and the hero
      was dead. When the guide came back and took up the halter of my camel, he went
      right ahead with the story, into the second chapter, just as though there had
      been no break.

       

      The man who purchased Ali Hafed’s farm one
      day led his camel into the garden to drink, and as that camel put its nose into
      the shallow water of that garden brook, Ali Hafed’s successor noticed a curious
      flash of light from the white sands of the stream. He pulled out a black stone
      having an eye of light reflecting all the hues of the rainbow. He took the
      pebble into the house and put it on the mantel which covers the central fires,
      and forgot all about it.

       

      A few days later this same old priest came
      in to visit Ali Hafed’s successor, and the moment he opened that drawing-room
      door he saw that flash of light on the mantel, and he rushed up to it, and
      shouted:

       

      “Here is a diamond! Has Ali Hafed
      returned?”

       

      “Oh no, Ali Hafed has not returned, and
      that is not a diamond. That is nothing but a stone we found right out here in
      our own garden.”

       

      “But,” said the priest, “I tell you I know
      a diamond when I see it. I know positively that is a diamond.”

       

      Then together they rushed out into that
      old garden and stirred up the white sands with their fingers, and lo! There came
      up other more beautiful and valuable gems then the first. “Thus,” said the guide
      to me, “was discovered the diamond-mine of Golconda, the most magnificent
      diamond-mine in all the history of mankind, excelling the Kimberly itself. The
      Kohinoor, and the Orloff of the crown jewels of England and Russia, the largest
      on earth, came from that mine.”

       

      When that old Arab guide told me the
      second chapter of his story, he then took off his Turkish cap and swung it
      around in the air again to get my attention to the moral. Those Arab guides have
      morals to their stories, although they are not always moral. As he swung his
      hat, he said to me, “Had Ali Hafed remained at home and dug in his own cellar,
      or underneath his own wheat fields or in his own garden, instead of
      wretchedness, starvation, and death by suicide in a strange land, he would have
      had ‘acres of diamonds.’ For every acre of that old farm, yes, every shovelful,
      afterward revealed gems which since have decorated the crowns of
      monarchs.”

       

      When he had added the moral of his story I
      saw why he reserved it for “his particular friends.” But I did not tell him that
      I could see it. It was that mean old Arab’s way of going around a thing like a
      lawyer, to say indirectly what he did not dare say directly, that “in his
      private opinion there was a certain young man then traveling down the Tigris
      River that might better be at home in America.” I did not tell him I could see
      that, but I told it to him quick, and I think I will tell it to you.

       

      I told him of a man out in California in
      1847, who owned a ranch. He heard they had discovered gold in southern
      California, and so with a passion for gold he sold his ranch to Colonel Sutter,
      and away he went, never to come back. Colonel Sutter put a mill upon a stream
      that ran through that ranch, and one day his little girl brought some wet sand
      from the raceway into their home and sifted it through her fingers before the
      fire, and in that falling sand a visitor saw the first shining scales of real
      gold that were ever discovered in California. The man who had owned that ranch
      wanted gold, and he could have secured it for the mere taking. Indeed,
      thirty-eight millions of dollars has been taken out of a very few acres since
      then.

       

       

       

      "Richard Wilkinson: How economic inequality harms societies"

       

      " We feel instinctively that societies with huge income gaps are somehow going wrong. Richard Wilkinson charts the hard data on economic
      inequality, and shows what gets worse when rich and poor are too far apart: real effects on health, lifespan, even such basic values as trust."

       

      Sharing this Ted talk link in case some my find it worth their time.

        Yes, but even without his admission, it's pretty obvious where he stands.  This still doesn't excuse him for making statements that contradict the facts. 

        In looking at what he said, I found another inconsistency with the available data..

        The job collapse bottomed out at the beginning of 2010, as
        the stimulus took effect. Since then, the U.S. has added 2.4 million jobs.
        That’s not enough, but it’s far better than what Romney would have you believe,
        and more than the net jobs created under the entire Bush administration.


        … where is the data for this?? BLS data says different.  http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost

         

        Then I found this:


        http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/01/17/when-andrew-sullivan-is-useful/

         

        Clearly not an Obama supporter, but still a good read to see what I would consider the rest of the story.

         

         

        I agree that everyone has their own version of the facts, including the author.  At least he pulls no punches about where he is coming from.  That allows us to parse the information without having to figure out whether or not there is a hidden agenda.  Makes it easier to sort through.  Whether you agree with him or not I think that that makes the article worth reading.

         

        A caveat: I write this as an unabashed supporter of Obama from early 2007 on. I did so not as a liberal, but as a conservative-minded independent appalled by the Bush administration’s record of war, debt, spending, and torture. I did not expect, or want, a messiah. I have one already, thank you very much. And there have been many times when I have disagreed with decisions Obama has made—to drop the Bowles-Simpson debt commission, to ignore the war crimes of the recent past, and to launch a war in Libya without Congress’s sanction, to cite three. But given the enormity of what he inherited, and given what he explicitly promised, it remains simply a fact that Obama has delivered in a way that the unhinged right and purist left have yet to understand or absorb. Their short-term outbursts have missed Obama’s long game—and why his reelection remains, in my view, as essential for this country’s future as his original election in 2008.

          Hey Tony, I looked up Mr. Cronwell. Interesting stuff from later on in the book that you quote. 

           

            To sympathize with a man whom God has punished for his sins, thus to help him when God would still continue a just punishment, is to do wrong, no doubt about it, and we do that more than we help those who are deserving. While we should sympathize with God's poor—that is, those who cannot help themselves---let us remember there is not a poor person in the United States who was not made poor by his own shortcomings, or by the shortcomings of someone else. It is all wrong to be poor, anyhow.

           

          Strange take on Christianity. Seems to me the opposite of what Jesus said, but I am not an expert, I will admit.

            Not surprisingly, there is no quotation from Jesus, nor a reference to his teaching or his actions.   

            "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


            Fat butt on couch

              Yes, but even without his admission, it's pretty obvious where he stands.  This still doesn't excuse him for making statements that contradict the facts. 

              In looking at what he said, I found another inconsistency with the available data..

              The job collapse bottomed out at the beginning of 2010, as
              the stimulus took effect. Since then, the U.S. has added 2.4 million jobs.
              That’s not enough, but it’s far better than what Romney would have you believe,
              and more than the net jobs created under the entire Bush administration.


              … where is the data for this?? BLS data says different.  http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost

               

              Then I found this:


              http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/01/17/when-andrew-sullivan-is-useful/

               

              Clearly not an Obama supporter, but still a good read to see what I would consider the rest of the story.

               

              Thanks Tony, interesting read(s).

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

                Jeff, Nader, nice try. Classic liberal tactic... Imply that I said something I didn't say, then attack it. In case you both missed the point... don't squander the opportunity you HAVE by being jealous of those who have more.
                Scout7


                CPT Curmudgeon

                  What the hell are you people even arguing about at this point?

                    Jeff, Nader, nice try. Classic liberal tactic... Imply that I said something I didn't say, then attack it. In case you both missed the point... don't squander the opportunity you HAVE by being jealous of those who have more.

                     

                    Actually, this is a classic tactic of argumentation. It's called the red herring. No party or ideology has a lock on this tactic or on argumentative fallacies. For example, you just suggested that I was jealous of rich people. That seems like a pretty far fetched claim. Not to mention it is a personal attack.

                     

                    You suggested that the piece that you pasted was "part of the story." Since I didn't really get the story you posted, I thought I would look a little bit more, see if I could find the rest of the story. The rest of the story is an attempt by a guy in the late 1870s to connect Christian values with monetary success. I thought that maybe the fact that this guy makes some pretty dubious claims about Christianity and that he was writing in a really different economic context might be useful for thinking through the relevance of your story to the current conversation.

                     

                    Obviously, we disagree on politics, but hopefully we can be friendly to each other.

                      I have not, nor will read this thread.  However, I clicked on it because I saw my friend Jeff's name as the last poster.  Jeff...as a friend, I must tell you NOT to post on threads about politics.  Just. Stop. Doing. It. 

                      Thunder smash!

                        I have not, nor will read this thread.  However, I clicked on it because I saw my friend Jeff's name as the last poster.  Jeff...as a friend, I must tell you NOT to post on threads about politics.  Just. Stop. Doing. It. 

                         

                         

                        I agree with 100% of this although I would like to point out that in my (admittedly biased) opinion Jeff has acted rather "professionally" in this particular thread and has worked to avoid riling and offending, or becoming riled and offended himself.  That's not to say the whole thing won't blow at any minute and that Jeff shouldn't quit while he's ahead, I just thought it was worth pointing out.

                         

                        Oh, and apropos of the original post, I'm currently sitting in the cafeteria of the IT headquarters of a Fortune 100 company and a group of eight fresh-faced recent college grads just sat down at the table next to me.  One of them just told the story from the original post about the teacher and the grades and how this "experiment" on "socialism" somehow related to Obama.  He didn't do a great job telling it, but he told it and it's just funny to see how these things can take on a life of their own.  In the next breath though one of them did mention how Romney made $20 million and paid an effective tax rate of 15% which is lower than just about anyone in this cafeteria pays.

                         

                        That's all I got.  Carry on.

                        Runners run.


                        A Saucy Wench

                          Meanwhile it is time for me to start screening my caller ID again because the damn political calls have started and soon will reach critical mass.

                           

                          And I have found it isnt as much fun telling political callers that i am <insert whatever persona would be the polar opposite of their target> as it is telling the door to door church proselytizers that I am wiccan and/or a satanist etc.  and would love to see them at my next ritual.

                          I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                           

                          "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                            Dave

                              I'm not one to quit when I'm ahead, but you guys are right.

                               

                              "Hope's just a word

                              That maybe you said

                              Or maybe you heard

                              on some windy corner

                              Round a wide-angled curve."

                               

                               

                              Yep.  And you're left.  Nothing more to see here. 

                               

                              I do think you did a wonderful job in this thread, Jeff.  Blush

                              I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                              dgb2n@yahoo.com
                              MrH


                                as it is telling the door to door church proselytizers that I am wiccan and/or a satanist etc.  and would love to see them at my next ritual.

                                 

                                When I was younger, and the religious folks would come banging on the door, interrupting my weekend (again), I'd feel embarrassed to answer the door wearing just boxers or a robe. Now I look forward to it.

                                The process is the goal.

                                Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.