A practical application of socialist ideas (Read 1168 times)


HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

    too many people think they can only scrape by on 80 grand a year.  adjust your expectations or risk becomming another Willy Loman.  the middle class in America... we've made it.  it's what people have said they've been struggling for for thousands of years.  it just seems to be human nature to think 3 cars > 2 cars and so on and so on...

     

    How can you possibly pay off serious healthcare costs on only 80 grand a year, unless you have some nice health insurance?

    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


    Blue Moon Hater

      How can you possibly pay off serious healthcare costs on only 80 grand a year, unless you have some nice health insurance?

       

      Kill yourself by crashing your car for the life insurance. Then the kids can use the money to become businessmen--unless your kid's name is Biff.

      There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

       

      Well, fuckers

      He still stands

       

      The Diary of a Once-ran.

      DoppleBock


        I get your point

         

        When I was 1st out of college (1994) - I made $8.67 per hour.

         

        I found an old house that had 7 make shift apartments (@ 200 sq feet each) out of it ~ $210 per month - Utilities included

        Had an old but reliable cart (Paid for)

        Had a phone

        Had to were suits and ties

        Spent $50 a month of groceries (5# box od noodles and bottle of ketchup each week + a few more)

        Spend $10 a week on beer ~ $20 on Bowling and beer during bowling season

        No cable, cell phone, or other luxery costs

         

        I saved a fair amount of money.

         

        I have friends for a family of 4 - 1 income earner that was making $12 an hour - No overtime and they owned a house + 2 vehicles and got by fine - Plenty of food and even an occassional low cost vacation.  Their definition of necessity and most peoples were a little different.

         

        Of course both these examples are in little towns of WI ~ Lower cost of living.

        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

         


        Blue Moon Hater

          Heard Adam talk about this.  His examples were hilarious!

          There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

           

          Well, fuckers

          He still stands

           

          The Diary of a Once-ran.

            Heard Adam talk about this.  His examples were hilarious!

             

            I bet I'd gain more from the original from Robert Kiyosaki better than Carolla's spin.

             

            But, I might enjoy the laugh.

             

            (BTW, Rick Dad, Poor Dad was one of the most influential books I've ever read.  Get it if you want to figure out a thing or two about consumerism)

            2014 Goals:

            #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

            #2: 365 Hours training

             


            Fast is better than long

              I bet I'd gain more from the original from Robert Kiyosaki better than Carolla's spin.

               

              But, I might enjoy the laugh.

               

              (BTW, Rick Dad, Poor Dad was one of the most influential books I've ever read.  Get it if you want to figure out a thing or two about consumerism)

               

              +1 on Rich Dad, Poor Dad

               

              few things I will never forget: (paraphrasing to suit my needs)

              It's not an asset until you sell it

              We sometimes teach children how to make money, but nobody teaches them how to keep it.

              2014 Goals: 2500 miles / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16:30 5K


              Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;
              Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

              What in the Jehu?

                +1 on Rich Dad, Poor Dad

                 

                few things I will never forget: (paraphrasing to suit my needs)

                It's not an asset until you sell it

                We sometimes teach children how to make money, but nobody teaches them how to keep it.

                 

                Also, "rich" treat money as an asset while "poor" treat money as an expense.

                 

                (BTW, for those that haven't read the book, "rich" doesn't mean "rich", and "poor" doesn't mean "poor".  Kinda, sorta, anyway.  It's a way of thinking about money)

                2014 Goals:

                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                #2: 365 Hours training

                 

                  I was in California on holiday last summer. I caught an interesting little piece on some news channel. They had 3 pie charts, each with 4 segments. The area of the  segments showed the proportion of the wealth of the country owned by the top 25% of the population the next 25% and so forth. The three charts where for 3 different countries - but were unlabelled.  One showed an extremely uneven distribution of wealth - a very large proportion of the total wealth in the hands of the richest 25% - and virtually none of the wealth in the hands of the poorest 25%. The second was less extreme and the third relatively even.

                   

                  The reporter asked people on the streets of New York to say which countries corresponded to which chart (they were told that one was the US). Pretty much everyone said that the even wealth distribution was the US.  Of course this is quite wrong - the US has extremely uneven distribution of wealth with the wealthiest owning a very large proportion of the total wealth and the poorest owning virtually nothing. The even distribution chart was for Sweden as it happens.  I wasn't surprised by the charts - but I was surprised by the apparent ignorance of the people about the facts.

                    - but I was surprised by the apparent ignorance of the people about the facts.

                     

                    I think you should speak with HL Mencken

                    Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                    We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes

                      I was in California on holiday last summer. I caught an interesting little piece on some news channel. They had 3 pie charts, each with 4 segments. The area of the  segments showed the proportion of the wealth of the country owned by the top 25% of the population the next 25% and so forth. The three charts where for 3 different countries - but were unlabelled.  One showed an extremely uneven distribution of wealth - a very large proportion of the total wealth in the hands of the richest 25% - and virtually none of the wealth in the hands of the poorest 25%. The second was less extreme and the third relatively even.

                       

                      The reporter asked people on the streets of New York to say which countries corresponded to which chart (they were told that one was the US). Pretty much everyone said that the even wealth distribution was the US.  Of course this is quite wrong - the US has extremely uneven distribution of wealth with the wealthiest owning a very large proportion of the total wealth and the poorest owning virtually nothing. The even distribution chart was for Sweden as it happens.  I wasn't surprised by the charts - but I was surprised by the apparent ignorance of the people about the facts.

                       

                      Back in school, I did a some research on this subject.  I worked with the Gini Co-Efficient (or what you're describing relates closely to what we see in the Gini Coefficient).  There are other ratios as well such as the RP10% which factor in the relationship between the richest 10% and the poorest 10%....

                       

                      In the US, the richest 10% earn 16x that of the poorest 10%

                      In Japan, the richest 10% earn 4.5x that of the poorest 10% (best on the list, or most equal on the list)

                      In Sweeden, the richest 10% earn 6.2x that of the poorest 10% (9th on the list)

                      There are 84 countries that have a ratio "better" than the USA.

                       

                      (To PR100, there are differences, but surprisingly, the differences aren't huge... see below)

                       

                      There are 40 countries worse than the USA in this category.  Here are some notable countries on the other side of the USA:

                      - Iran 17.2x

                      - Mexico 21.6x

                      - China 21.6x

                      - Argentina 31.6x

                      - South Africa 33.1x

                      - Panama 49.9x

                      - Haiti 54.4x

                      - Bolivia 93.9x

                       

                      Now, what should the number be?  Who knows?  Should it be similar to Japan or Sweeden?

                      Regarless, it's not, nor will it ever change dramatically in a short period of time.  It's a slow moving metric. 

                       

                      Here in the USA, there are opportunities that permit an average Joe to succeed and prosper (unlike what might be possible in closed countries such as Panama or Haiti where the rich rule).  That same average Joe could drink or drug himself to the streets.  The opportunities here are special.

                      2014 Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                      #2: 365 Hours training

                       


                      Menace to Sobriety

                         

                        There are 40 countries worse than the USA in this category.  Here are some notable countries on the other side of the USA:

                        - Iran 17.2x

                        - Mexico 21.6x

                        - China 21.6x

                        - Argentina 31.6x

                        - South Africa 33.1x

                        - Panama 49.9x

                        - Haiti 54.4x

                        - Bolivia 93.9x

                         

                         

                        Seems like good company to me.Undecided

                        Janie, today I quit my job. And then I told my boss to go f*** himself, and then I blackmailed him for almost sixty thousand dollars. Pass the asparagus.
                        MrH


                          The opportunities here are special.

                           

                          USA is certainly better than many countries. But if you look at the data on social mobility and opportunity, the best place to pursue the "American dream" is now ... Denmark. Smile

                           

                          There was an interesting TED talk by Richard Wilkinson on the impact of income inequality of society on various measures of quality of life.

                           

                          http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

                          The process is the goal.

                          Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                            There's a difference between earnings and wealth.

                             

                            As I said the interesting thing is that people apparently have little idea about how things actually are, rather than the facts themselves.


                            A Dance with Monkeys

                              It's a slow moving metric.

                               

                              Is it?  Where was the USA 10 years ago?

                                Here in the USA, there are opportunities that permit an average Joe to succeed and prosper (unlike what might be possible in closed countries such as Panama or Haiti where the rich rule).  That same average Joe could drink or drug himself to the streets.  The opportunities here are special.

                                 

                                That's the sales pitch - and of course it does happen sometimes. But mostly the kids of rich parents end up rich, the kids of poor parents end up poor. No doubt people have tried to measure this kind of thing - I wouldn't be at all surprised if social mobility is has actually become worse in the last 30 or 40 years, rather than better.

                                 

                                MTA: Comparison with places like Haiti is really missing the point. The obvious places to compare the US with are the other first world rich countries - not tiny,  poor third world countries. If the best we can say about the US is "it's better than Haiti" then surely it does have a serious problem?