Forums >General Running>Too Much Mileage
Feeling the growl again
As far as this topic concerns I've been increasing the mileage but have not gotten in the speedwork I would like. I'm not sure my legs ever feel good anymore. The last time they felt fresh was my last Marathon. I don't see me getting much speed work in but lots of miles and lots of hills. Should be interesting to see where that gets me for my spring marathon.
You've been doing a lot of miles for a long time. Why not drop 20 mpw and start adding back in more tempo and some intervals? Especially after January. I'm starting intervals this week. Since you hid your log that's about all one can suggest.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Ahh I wasn't trying to hide my log. Ooops, sorry about that.
My current plan is to run heavy miles with heavy hills to get ready for the spring marathon. Then after that I plan to lower the mileage for 3-4 months adding in lots of speedwork and swimming. All of this in mind to lower the 5k time. Then go all out for the fall marathon and then the run for under 3. Then 2012 is the year of the 1/2 Triathlon and then 2013 is the year of the full Ironman. I've got pretty long range goals. Who knows maybe even Kona.
Honestly I am starting to get bored with all of the running. I need to change it up but who knows if I will ever have the chance to break 3 hours again in my lifetime so I want to give it a go for 2011.
2014 Goals: (Yeah I suck)
BCR, my $.02. I think you are on the wrong track just adding mileage and hills.
You do almost NO speedwork, no tempo runs, anything. It's all easy and hills. You have this huge monster base from last summer (more than mine) and are starting to build again. I pay attention because we're not that different. You are faster than me but we've been on sort of the same plane of improvement so to speak. You also say you are bored with running, which I completely get.
Why not add speedwork NOW, at least in the form of more formalized tempo runs 1-2x/week and progression or MP miles in your long runs? I know my experience is that adding that stuff worked for me, not just for 5K but for marathon training as well (maybe more so). Plus it helps the boredom having to ramp up for 1-2 runs/week.
Also, make sure some of the tempo runs get done in your Brady helmet so you can see how it feels taking water and stuff through the mask.
The whole last half of last year was high miles for you. IMHO you don't need to do just a ton of easy miles for another 6 months, through Boston, and THEN add quality for a fall marathon. Consolidate the gains from all those miles now by adding in tempos, intervals, fartleks, and quality at the end of your long run every other week or so. You will be better off for it. You already gained strength from the volume, adding in hills is not necessarily going to do a whole lot more for you...certainly it won't add as much as tempo runninig.
Besides, the hard part about Boston is not running up the hills...it is managing yourself on the downs well enough to not be tore up at 16-17 when you start climbing.
MTA: 6 months is plenty long for a training cycle. You should be able to get base and race-specific training, then peak and race, all in this period and then go back around.
I know this is going to sound ridiculous coming from me. I think this makes a lot of sense. I didn't know what I was doing when I started running. I never read a running magazine or a training plan. I just ran. Then I had some bad advice from a running store owner. I had just run my first 5K and won a $50 gift certificate to the store. When I redeemed it ,the owner asked me to run the half marathon he was helping to organized the very next weekend. Yep, 2 weeks after my first 5K. I had never run more that 6-7 miles and had only done that once or twice. I ran the half and qualified for the NYC Marathon. Long story short I had told my MIL who had died from lung cancer the summer before that I would run the NYC Marathon someday. When a friend told me that my time had qualified me to run in it, I felt some higher power was telling me to run it for her. I was on a mission from that point. That is when I joined RA. After reading just a few posts, I knew I was in over my head and doing it all wrong but I was committed to do it for her. I was afraid that if I didn't do it now I would never do it. So, I did. Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe not the best plan. I would probably be better off and still having a great time progressing if I had concentrated on shorter races. I realize at times, that I am in over my head but now I'm on a roll. We'll see how Boston training goes. Nobby is suggesting shorter races and working on speed during the spring and summer. I think taking a step back would probably be a good thing. I love the miles but I also love shorter races and speed. I am starting to realize that I have plenty of time to improve. I don't have one foot in the grave yet. I might not even be at the top of the hill!
I hear you, sistah. But I also had a good time at Baystate (which the DICKENS is it not "Bay State"?). And, if I recall, you had an amazing time at NY. So, as you said further down, no regrets.
Like you, I've been thinking a lot about focusing on shorter races, at least for the Spring. We'll see if I get drafted by NYRR for The Marathon this year.
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus
My current plan is to run heavy miles with heavy hills to get ready for the spring marathon. Then after that I plan to lower the mileage for 3-4 months adding in lots of speedwork and swimming. All of this in mind to lower the 5k time. Then go all out for the fall marathon and then the run for under 3.
BCR, I'm no expert here but, before reading what L Train and Spaniel said, I was thinking the same thing. From my view, your running doesn't have much dimension. It seems like your whole program seems built to get as many miles as possible and you are running a lot of very easy paces to get those miles and survive to the next day in order to keep getting more miles. It's as if you built up your huge base but can't cut down (...kinda like ending a streak) to focus on or fine tune for your goal, which I think should be your best possible race in Boston. Could all these miles possibly be holding you back from ever feeling fresh enough to run some quality speedwork?? Also, I've got no idea what you mean by "Hill." Do you mean a hilly route or are you doing hard hill repeats with recovery in between. Depending on how you define "hill," your hills might be similar to some of my hilly routes that I'll still call "easy" when run at an over 8 minute per mile pace...and I'm not yet talking sub 3 marathon this year.
Personally, I love to run faster paces and often have to hold myself back from doing it too much. I wonder if you changed up your program you might find more joy in running. You absolutely have the base to do quality speedwork. If not speedwork, why not throw in some 5K or 10K races just for fun here or there? This might bring back that joy and put a spring in your step.
This has got to be one of the best threads I've seen on any running forum.
Thanks guys......good stuff.
This and the comment about being bored with running concern me. Boston is far too far away for your legs to already feel strung out and you to mentally be losing touch with the motivation. I dropped a couple big weeks over the holidays and while I had some times where I went 2-3 days with tired legs, here and there there were days that they felt pretty good and I was still able to hit good workouts when I wanted to, most of the time anyways. Even years ago when I did 2000 miles in 5 months, sure my legs felt tired most days but as soon as I got warmed up and into a workout they would come around and deliver.
When you reach the point that they don't come around and you are just slogging to log miles, you are in trouble.
BCR, people hammered you pretty hard about volume and some of your negative comments about it a year back. To your credit you have come around and not only started running more, but running a LOT more consistently and delivered the goods in your fall marathon. There were a few people whose progress I was glad to see last year and you were one of them.
The problem with telling people to fix something is that sometimes they then become fixated on the fix and lose sight of the big picture. I don't want you to invest all of this time and effort in high miles, then have a bad experience and come back and say the miles were to blame. Miles are but one part of the equation....the other is what you do with them (variety -- tempos, fartleks, intervals, easy, hills...) and the other how you block them out across the year. I would really suggest you start thinking about emphasizing the content and just fill in whatever good volume you can around your key workouts while still delivering on workout day.
Say you want to do a day of intervals, a day of tempo/fartlek/progression, and a long run (with quality every other week) each week. Design the workouts, and when overall mileage starts hurting your ability to execute and recover from the workouts then back off the volume a bit. You have a huge base, the workouts (for the next 3-4 months anyways) are as or maybe even more important than the volume at this point. My guess is that by dropping back about 20ish mpw you can hit good workouts.
Yeah, solid stuff and very much appreciated. I wish I could hit the PayPal button more often, when my Megamillions number comes up tomorrow I'll be logging onto RA.
E.J.Greater Lowell Road RunnersCry havoc and let slip the dawgs of war!May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, may the sun shine warm upon your SPF30, may the rains fall soft upon your sweat-wicking hat, and until you hit the finish line may The Flying Spaghetti Monster hold you in the hollow of His Noodly Appendage.
Why is it sideways?
It is difficult to bump miles and intensity together. So, you bump miles, get into the routine, learn how to recover, allow your legs to adjust. This may take 6 weeks. After a while your legs will come around. You will have days when your easy pace drops and you feel like flying.
After this, you COULD try to run more miles. But a better idea is to begin to work intensity in, slowly. Maybe you add in some quick 400s and a moderate tempo run. Or you start finishing your long run fast. Nothing really hard, but slowly increasing intensity for another 6 weeks until you are running volume and intensity.
Then, 4-6 weeks out, you cut the volume a bit, get real specific with your pace work. Start racing hard, and peak.
The next cycle you have an option. You can either jump right in where you left off with workouts since you won't have to adjust to the mileage. This means you can spend more time working on your weaknesses as a runner. Or perhaps, you prepare for a different race distance and emphasize different sorts of workouts in the specific period. You become a more complete runner this way.
OR
You can look to bump the miles and repeat the process. You will become a stronger runner this way.
Do you need to become stronger or more complete? What is your weakness?
Funny, I thought of this yesterday. There's a guy I run with pretty regularly who has historically been a stronger/better runner than me. In the last year, our longer race times have gotten closer. And if we happen to be running harder miles together, we're pretty even over longer distances (he's still faster, but not by much). But if it's more of a fast finish run or if it were a 5K, he has a whole gear that just does not exist. Aerobicly, I'm fine during these fast finishes. But my legs just won't go any faster and he just floats away. This tells me that the work that I have done has been disproprtionally beneficial to my longer distance fitness but that I could very much benefit from learning to run faster at shortter distances. It crosses my mind, though, that I just may not be a fast runner and there isn't much I can do. So there's an example of if I want to work on my weakness, I'd have to change some of what I'm doing, nd maybe take a break from the marathon training.
The King of Beasts
I guess I am curious as to what some of our higher mileage guys (A1, DB, mikey, spaniel, et al) think - to much, too soon or doing what I need to start kicking some ass.
I dont know.
"As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett
"I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”
Goals for 2013: sub 18 5K; stay healthy
This and the comment about being bored with running concern me. Boston is far too far away for your legs to already feel strung out and you to mentally be losing touch with the motivation. I dropped a couple big weeks over the holidays and while I had some times where I went 2-3 days with tired legs, here and there there were days that they felt pretty good and I was still able to hit good workouts when I wanted to, most of the time anyways. Even years ago when I did 2000 miles in 5 months, sure my legs felt tired most days but as soon as I got warmed up and into a workout they would come around and deliver. When you reach the point that they don't come around and you are just slogging to log miles, you are in trouble. BCR, people hammered you pretty hard about volume and some of your negative comments about it a year back. To your credit you have come around and not only started running more, but running a LOT more consistently and delivered the goods in your fall marathon. There were a few people whose progress I was glad to see last year and you were one of them. The problem with telling people to fix something is that sometimes they then become fixated on the fix and lose sight of the big picture. I don't want you to invest all of this time and effort in high miles, then have a bad experience and come back and say the miles were to blame. Miles are but one part of the equation....the other is what you do with them (variety -- tempos, fartleks, intervals, easy, hills...) and the other how you block them out across the year. I would really suggest you start thinking about emphasizing the content and just fill in whatever good volume you can around your key workouts while still delivering on workout day. Say you want to do a day of intervals, a day of tempo/fartlek/progression, and a long run (with quality every other week) each week. Design the workouts, and when overall mileage starts hurting your ability to execute and recover from the workouts then back off the volume a bit. You have a huge base, the workouts (for the next 3-4 months anyways) are as or maybe even more important than the volume at this point. My guess is that by dropping back about 20ish mpw you can hit good workouts.
This and that stuff Jeff said is gold. I think it takes guts to be able to change from what has been working with the hopes of breaking through to another level.
BCR, I recall saying last year that run streaks do not qualify you for Boston. Might the streak be turning your running into more of a job than a hobby? Remember, "run like a kid again" right? I recall you seemed more focused on getting the BQ than actually running Boston where as I was more focused on the opportunity to run Boston and the BQ was just a hurdle on the road to Hopkinton. For that reason I'm oozing with motivation right now and am willing to run through shit (and enjoy it) in order to be strong in April. So, I have to wonder if the streak might be bringing you down and I'd toss this in to the "what kind of runner do you want to be" bag.
I'm not suggesting you stop your streak, rather, consider it's impact on your goals. Nothing wrong with streaking if thats your goal. I'm even running a micro streak of my own right now but I've already scheduled the end it sometime in February once I get 100+ days and head off to Florida for a week of vacation. The streak has been great in keeping me consistent but I'm really looking at it as more of a stunt. I'm also finding running for streaking's sake can annoy the family. It's one thing to tell them I'm going for a run and can explain how it fits with my goals. It's another thing to take time away to go and bag a couple miles with little or no purpose other than maintaining the streak, especially when everyone is busy, stressed, or we're traveling. I've got to keep their support and I've got to keep myself physically and mentally fresh. So do you.
This and that stuff Jeff said is gold.
+1
(And LOL at "that stuff Jeff said".)
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau