Forums >General Running>Distance: recovery run vs. long run
Overweight per CDC BMI
Is there a certain distance where running the distance for a recovery run becomes too long and must be considered a long run? I went out Saturday with the intention of doing 3-4 miles at easy pace for a recovery run but was feeling good and continued for a total of 6 miles, still at easy pace. I did an 8-mile long run the next day with some 400 intervals mixed in but my legs felt sluggish. I am currently running 25-35 miles per week with that increasing to 40 soon. I was thinking 5 miles should be the threshold but looking for recommendations.
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
I look at it as how much time am I spending on my feet. At most, I do am hour.
It also depends how much you run.
an amazing likeness
I'm unsure of whose / what version of terminology you may be using when you say "recovery"...so my reply may be missing the point of your question. However, a recovery run is generally approached an easy, low impact workout of 30 min or so. The focus being to increase blood supply and improve recovery healing while not adding any additional damage.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
However, a recovery run is generally approached an easy, low impact workout of 30 min or so. The focus being to increase blood supply and improve recovery healing while not adding any additional damage.
The above is what I am referencing for recovery run. Keeping heart rate below 150 and breath under control to be able to breath just through my nose. I know 8 miles like this is not correct but what about 4-5 miles?
RIP Milkman
See that's different than what I would consider, although I get it. I differentiate between "easy" and "recovery" although they often serve similar purposes, which is to let your body recover to get ready for your next quality day. I will run a "recovery" day if it's within 24 hours of a big quality day. I limit those runs to one hour max, although they can be as short as 30 minutes. Easy days are generally longer, between 60-90 minutes, i.e. I do not run that long the day right after a quality day. My long runs are 120+. But, as another poster referenced, it's really up to your mileage. If a long run for you is 90 minutes, clearly your easy runs should not be 60-90.
Also, the whole controlling breath through your nose, I hope you don't actually run that way but just use it to judge if you're running too fast...
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Jmac11 adds a good point which I skipped...the purpose of recovery is to support the absorption of the benefits from the hard, stressing workout (or race) you're recovering from. When your focus of the workout is easy miles to support building your base -- that's generally not a recovery workout.
But in the end, it's your running log -- you can call the workout whatever you want: easy, recovery, base miles...whatever your comfortable with.
As Dopplebock wisely coaches, every workout should have a purpose...it's good to know what that is before you set out to run it.
Yeah to me recovery runs and long runs are not really adjacent to each other on the recovery/stress spectrum. There would be a bunch of stuff in between, including easy runs.
If 8 miles is your long run then 6 is clearly too long to serve the primary purpose of recovery. Maybe 3 miles max at a very easy pace would be. That doesn't mean doing 6 and 8 on back to back days is necessarily a bad idea at this stage, but you should be thinking about in terms of the type and amount of stress you're trying to induce and when and how you're going to recover from it.
Runners run
in review of your log - currently you do not run 2 days in a row very often. Your total mileage in the last 4 weeks is 87 miles and you did not run for @ 10 weeks before that.
The biggest issue runners face in building up their mileage base is running training runs too fast or hard for the purpose of the training effort.
As you are building up from 22 miles per week and running 3 times a week to 80% more mileage (40 miles per week) ~ The faster you run recovery and easy days, the less likely of success. That being said if you are going to build mileage fairly aggressively - Dead legs are to be expected until your body becomes more accustomed to the new training load. If you body can take it without getting injured ... just keep recovery and easy at the right pace and effort.
I would keep a recovery day heart rate <= 70% of max heart rate and a single recovery run <= 10% of your weekly mileage. 6-8 mile recovery run would be OK if you were running > 100 Miles per week.
At 40 miles per week, I would keep them between 3-4 miles.
But as Mikeymike points out - You arr building mileage ... Lots of easy runs are OK ... Just accept that your legs will not have the same pop in them as you are dramatically building mileage.
In the past - present - future ... I personally like to build mileage quickly ... usually have dead legs and once I hit the mileage range I start worrying about the quality of my speed work. Most people follow the different path of keeping speed work a higher quality and adding mileage more conservatively.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
Ha! Yes, it is just a way for me to judge whether or not I am taking it easy enough. I figure if I am forced to use my mouth for taking air then I am pushing it too hard.
Terminology of easy runs and recovery runs to me are the same effort with recovery runs coming the day or two after an intense or long run to speed up recovery. Easy run to me is getting in mileage before an intense/long run to keep the muscles loose and build base. Either way, I am asking about limits so I can get in my weekly mileage while not hindering my tempo/long runs. My long runs are normally 8-13 miles depending on how I am feeling that day or how much time I have.
Andy, i am currently training for a marathon and have run about 45 miles for the past couple of weeks, i do two easy runs each week, right now about 8-9 miles each, i run long on the weekend (12-13 miles) and i do a short 3-4 mile recovery run the day after my long run to shake my legs out. i wouldn't think of doing a recovery run before my long run. I do however do a tempo run the day before my long run so that i am used to that dead leg feeling on my long runs, its a mental sport and it helps me to train with those dead legs so when it happens during a race i know how to handle it.
on my easy runs i watch my pace and increase my distance each week, its an easy effort but there is a purpose to it, building mileage, my recovery runs i leave my watch at home, they are generally a minute per mile slower than my easy runs, they are truly for recovery, i just want some blood flow through my legs but i don't have a specific goal, its not a workout.
I actually just figured out how to enable the Garmin Connect feature to automatically update the log in RA this morning. It only went back 4 weeks or so and didn't populate anything from when I bought it in October. In September/October I was training for a half marathon beginning of November which I maxed out at 36 miles in a week. Once the half was over, I took it easy for a month with about 10-15 miles per week and then started up my next training cycle in mid-December.
As for the number of days per week, I am usually only taking one rest day per week. The run log isn't showing any cross-training I am doing such as elliptical or treadmill hike which I am counting 15 cardio minutes as 1 running mile. It looks like am counting about 4-5 miles per week in these "cardio miles" in addition to what my true run log is showing. Some veterans may disagree with this approach but I know I am getting in good aerobic training during cardio to help my running capacity.
I agree with the 3-4 miles max for a recovery run and my experience this past weekend was my proof. I just needed validation that the 6 miles the day prior is what caused me to only be able to stand doing 8 miles the next day. 7-6-8 was what I ran 3 days in a row.
SMART Approach
To piggyback on the above comments. If you go through a week or weeks and find that you are drained or have consistently heavy legs, then you are doing something wrong and need to evaluate your plan. Meaning, your easy days are not easy enough or are too long, you are ramping up to fast, not sleeping enough, nutrition etc. It all factors in. Any run or runs that prevent you from a strong recovery and from performing well on your QUALITY days then likely are something other than easy/recovery days.
Also, sometimes you need to look at the big picture vs. day to day pacing. Any easy or recovery runs that further breaks you down really is not easy or a recovery run in my opinion unless you have a plan around multiple days of breakdown followed by rest/easy days. BUT, you may not notice the breakdown until days or weeks of additional stress. We all have normal soreness and a few aches each week but look for a progression, higher heart rates etc. Always have a plan going into each week and generally follow it but if pretty darn tired one day (s) and you are scheduled to do a tempo run well then adapt and turn it in to a very easy run. This is smart training. Recovery is where you get stronger.
Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery
Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training
Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique
www.smartapproachtraining.com
To piggyback on the above comments. If you go through a week or weeks and find that you are drained or have consistently heavy legs, then you are doing something wrong and need to evaluate your plan. Meaning, your easy days are not easy enough or are too long, you are ramping up to fast, not sleeping enough, nutrition etc. It all factors in. Any run or runs that prevent you from a strong recovery and from performing well on your QUALITY days then likely are something other than easy/recovery days. Also, sometimes you need to look at the big picture vs. day to day pacing. Any easy or recovery runs that further breaks you down really is not easy or a recovery run in my opinion unless you have a plan around multiple days of breakdown followed by rest/easy days. BUT, you may not notice the breakdown until days or weeks of additional stress. We all have normal soreness and a few aches each week but look for a progression, higher heart rates etc. Always have a plan going into each week and generally follow it but if pretty darn tired one day (s) and you are scheduled to do a tempo run well then adapt and turn it in to a very easy run. This is smart training. Recovery is where you get stronger.
So I am starting to get noticeably tired feet/ankles and I am thinking I need a step-back week (or whatever the proper term). This past weekend included a 3-mile easy run Saturday with an attempted long run Sunday morning which I ended up quitting after 2 miles because I felt sluggish. I ended up trying again Sunday afternoon which I was able to get in a little over 9 miles but I still felt sluggish with my lower legs and feet feeling achy. Walking around the house the past 2 days, my left foot doesn't hurt but it feels like someone is stepping on it.
I have my half marathon race March 8 so 19 days left. How many days should I take off and how many miles should I reduce this week? My weekly mileage has been in the mid to high 30's each week counting cross training as a few of those miles. Should I do 20-25 miles this week, jump back up to 35 next week, and then 25 easy miles the week leading up to the race? I don't think it would be wise to do any more intervals or tempos before the race, just easy and long runs.
Thoughts for these last few weeks?
Basically, your training is in. If you feel beat up, you have to listen to your body. I am not huge on a big taper for HALFS unless beat up which you are. Get through this week at 20-25 miles per week and keep it there. Don't jump back up to 35 next week. Be conscious of your intensity- hold back. About 10 - 12 days before event you can do your last quality run or tempo and then coast your way in. Just know you can affect performance by continually beating yourself going into race day. You won't really lose any fitness and may can some by absorbing and recovering from your previous weeks of training.
Get through this week at 20-25 miles per week and keep it there. Don't jump back up to 35 next week. Be conscious of your intensity- hold back.
Sounds good. What should be my max distance for my long runs the next 2 weekends? I completed a 15-mile long run 10 days ago and had originally planned on 13-14 mile runs the 2 weekends before the race. I am thinking I should max out at 9-10 miles now to make sure I am rested. I did an easy 6 miles this morning and wasn't in any pain but the ball of my left foot still felt a bit tender/pressure.