Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 572 times)

flavio80


Intl. correspondent

    Jmac - What exercises are you doing? I'm curious if any of them involve trying to balance yourself on one leg while gently lifting your heel from the ground.

    Andy - What are you trying to achieve with these 5k time trials? Is it to get the body used to running faster?
    IMHO, a 5k time trial is something you would run at the beginning of your training cycle to assess fitness, in the absence of a 5k race nearby.
    You could then gauge your current fitness and use the result from the race to calculate your training paces.
    As with any other race, once you've gone to the well you need to wait for some time before you can go again, regardless if you're physically rested from the previous race. It's the same logic for why you shouldn't race the 15k 3 weeks before the half, you will likely find the well half empty and run a subpar performance at the half.

    Have you noticed how even the elites struggle to race all out a few days apart during the olympics and world championships? There's a reason for that. It's really only feasible if you're sandbagging the first races like the top runners do.
    I've once tried running 2 5k time trials 5 days apart. I wanted to run the second one because I felt like I botched pacing on the first one. Even though I was well rested running it 5 days later, I went to the well and it was empty. The first one was like 18:10 and the second one was 18:40, way slower.
    Now, if you're looking for something to improve vo2max and get used to a higher cadence, then there are excellent vo2max workouts for that: 12x400, 8x600, 6x800 all run at your current 5k pace.

    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

    Up next: no idea

    Tool to generate Strava weekly

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

      Andy - I do think Flavio is on to something, although I'm not sure I fully agree that a 15K would mean you can't run the half. It depends how much mileage you come into it. Most people should be fine for that, but if you recover poorly, it could impact you.

       

      Flavio - no heel lifts right now, but there are two exercises I'm doing that require single leg work. One is a verison of a single leg squat, but it focuses actually on creating an arch with your foot, which puts a lot of pressure on the tendons in your foot (in a good way). The other one is holding a single leg squat (only going down about 6 inches though) for about 30 seconds, and then doing this weird twist at the hip that I've never done before that somehow puts a crazy amount of work in your calf.

       

      The other big thing is wearing a strassburg sock to bed, which I've done in the past and helps.

       

      She also did this myofascial release with the scraper that in the past hasn't done much for me on other injuries, but WOW, it felt like 75% better on the run right after the session and honestly has felt really good all week, which can only be due to that because the benefits of the exercises cannot be showing up yet (I only started PT on Monday and I felt great on my runs Monday thru Wednesday nights).

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

      JMac11


      RIP Milkman


        Now, if you're looking for something to improve vo2max and get used to a higher cadence, then there are excellent vo2max workouts for that: 12x400, 8x600, 6x800 all run at your current 5k pace.

         

        What about 7x1200 at 4K pace? Where does that fit in?

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

         

        flavio80


        Intl. correspondent

           

          What about 7x1200 at 4K pace? Where does that fit in?

           

          I'm sure you will find that in the Jack "Sadistic" Daniels book somewhere 😁

          PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

          Up next: no idea

          Tool to generate Strava weekly

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

             

             Mikkey - if I remember correctly, it's some sort of spur, right? I feel like you've tried everything in the book - what do you think ultimately has led to it getting "a lot better"?

             

            I think a combination of shockwave therapy (to my foot and not my head)..increasing the strength training and…not running!  I’ve had problems with my left foot since 2011 when I got PTT and then a heel spur and more recently mild PF. In fact nearly all my niggles have been on the left side including piriformis syndrome and sciatica issues during some training cycles (including my PR cycle)… my physio even commented that my left calf is thinner than the right!  I’ve been focusing on strengthening core so that these issues are less likely to crop up in the future and will also take Flávio’s advice about one leg exercises as my balance is terrible. I’ll just have to play it by ear and see how things pan out this year. 🤷‍♂️

            Flavio - I hate to break this to you…but my 10k PR is actually 36:52 which means you’ll now have to target a 36:51. Hey, it was you that wanted to join the big boy person thread!!!

             

            DK - Interesting and will bear that in mind. 👍

             

            JT - Yeah if you can’t beat them then join them and get yourself an asterisk marathon PR. 

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              DWave - Thanks again for the running directions, and absolutely for meeting me for a run as well. Highlight of my trip.


              MMerkle - Race chart updated.


              CIM - I'd recommend anyone thinking about this race to just go ahead and sign up.


              I'm unfortunately behind due primarily to a work trip to DWave's neck of the woods. It was awesome to meet up with her for a run, and I couldn't resist a trip to Hains Point for a workout (this place is bigger than I had in my mind without actually looking into it). I also got to take a quick pre-dawn tour of a number of the monuments as well.

              5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

               

              AndyTN


              Overweight per CDC BMI

                Andy - What are you trying to achieve with these 5k time trials? Is it to get the body used to running faster?
                IMHO, a 5k time trial is something you would run at the beginning of your training cycle to assess fitness, in the absence of a 5k race nearby.

                Yeah, I guess I am sub-consciously trying to create a simulated race series. All my PR's in 5k, 10k, and Half came during a race series and I attribute it to the fact that frequent racing pulled out something extra that I just can't get doing intervals and tempos on my own.

                 

                I do need to get in something to assess my fitness in the shorter distances. My only race shorter than 10 miles in the last 15 months was a 5k in October on a grass XC course so my timing is off for the short races. Maybe I will just do the 5k time trial once and then stick to the 400 intervals to build my speed. I have done the 20-30 minute tempos (as mmerkle is suggesting) frequently the past year but my true speed work is what has been laking.

                 

                Either way, I am still in a good training cadence carrying over from the marathon training and I'm sure I am putting too much thought into it.

                Memphis / 38 male

                5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                AndyTN


                Overweight per CDC BMI

                  My apologies in advance to the females on this thread. I have to put in a plug for Saxx underwear. My wife bought me a pair for Christmas and these have now become my go to for my weekly long run. I have always had an issue with chafing down there, even with lube like body glide, and this underwear feels great way into long miles.

                   

                  Alright, enough TMI and here is the link if you are further interested. Ultra 2-Pack Boxer Brief - Black/Black | – SAXX Underwear

                   

                  underwear

                  Memphis / 38 male

                  5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                  Marky_Mark_17


                     

                    What about 7x1200 at 4K pace? Where does that fit in?

                     

                    Nowhere. That fits in nowhere.

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                    Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    Mikkey


                    Mmmm Bop

                       

                      What about 7x1200 at 4K pace? Where does that fit in?

                       

                      Behave yourself Mr McKeon.

                      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        Re: the 7x1200 at 4K pace, have we considered a "misguided training thread"?  Over the years, I've seen a few things on various social media outlets that I could post under "misguided training."

                         

                        [my personal favorite was an Instagram post from someone who I thought was reasonable up until then.  The posted workout was a 14 mile long run, with 1 mile easy then 8 miles at "half-marathon pace" immediately into 5 miles at "10K pace."   So essentially 13 miles averaging faster than half-marathon pace.   This person claimed to have "nailed" the workout and all I could think is "that's not how this works at all."]

                         

                        Cobra Commander Keen - it was really great to meet and run with you - I'm just sorry we didn't get a Forum Encounter Selfie afterwards.  I'm glad you got to experience the splendid tedium that is a lap of Hains Point.

                         

                        BTW, a fun fact that I forgot to mention at the time - Hains Point is man-made, not natural.  It was created about 130 years by the Army Corp of Engineers, who were dredging out a channel for ships, and dumped all the silt in the middle of the Potomac river.  Sadly, this means that it is now very slowly sinking back into the river.  You may have noted a walkway around the edge that was taped off - that used to be a pedestrian path but now parts of it are submerged.

                         

                        I definitely hope you have an opportunity to come back to the area sometime - there's a lot of cool places to run that you didn't get a chance to catch.

                         

                        Re: Ballpark Pouch.  Andy - I don't think you were around here a few months ago when I was going on about menopause.  I have no issue with you or others discusssing this topic.

                         

                        Hi to the rest of y'all.  I'm in Houston now - flew out yesterday morning.  So far my legs are feeling better than they did before Chicago, so I'm thinking the changes I made to my taper (basically not tapering quite as much) may have been the right ones.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                           

                           So far my legs are feeling better than they did before Chicago, so I'm thinking the changes I made to my taper (basically not tapering quite as much) may have been the right ones.

                           

                          dw - great news! I look forward to stalking you tomorrow. Along with my friend who’s running her 14th straight—I guess people like that race! But why can’t they run it today? I see it’s 40F right now, PERFECT marathoning conditions, but will be nearly 60 at this time tomorrow. UGH. Stay hydrated and good luck!!

                          Dave

                          flavio80


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Jmac - I use a small tennis-ball-like ball from Decathlon which has some soft spikes in it to massage the bottom of my foot. I swear it helps to release some of the tension.

                            Massage ball

                             

                            Mikkey - Thanks for the extra motivation! Though nothing is ever guaranteed, 36:51 is 3:41 pace, I have run 3:43 for 9.87km in Pisa back in late 2020 on about 50-60km per week training, and my half PR is a time trial on a windy day and it's a 3:53 pace, so it's not unthinkable that I could run that.
                            But not on this race 😁

                             

                            Andy - I believe you should be able to run 5ks all out 2 weeks apart, the first one being a "learning experience" and the 2nd one should go smoother.Also LOL at the ballpark thing.

                             

                            DW - Best of luck!

                            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: no idea

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              Flavio - I have something very similar, and I actually leave it in the freezer as I find the cold helps too.

                               

                              Me - lighter "recovery" week but took until Saturday to actually feel decently fresh. Then I managed to smash out one of my better workouts in a while (1600 @10k effort, 1200 @5k effort, 800 @3k effort, 400 all out with 400 recs and 2km steady between efforts).  It felt pretty good to really blast that last 400.  Couple of big weeks coming up.

                               

                              Weekly for period: From: 09/01/2023 To 15/01/2023

                              <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                              in m
                              10/01 That run where people on Tamaki Drive were suspiciously friendly 6.40 10.30 00:45:34 07:07 04:25 30
                              11/01 That run where the only reminders of the storm were some residual humidity and a pile of footpath debris 10.22 16.45 01:04:44 06:20 03:56 39
                              12/01 That run where it’s 10 years since the legendary Peak to Creek run at Whistler 🏂 9.33 15.01 01:04:38 06:56 04:18 37
                              14/01 That run where I briefly saw a giant yellow thing in the sky (but still got wet shoes) ☀️ 9.97 16.04 00:59:28 05:58 03:42 73
                              15/01 That run where we were Down with the JBeez 14.36 23.10 01:42:34 07:09 04:26 232

                              Total distance: 80.90km (50.3 imperial yellow jelly beans)

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                              Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                Great to hear of another forum encounter between darkwave and Keen.  Good luck darkwave!

                                 

                                Mark - Good to see you getting back to normal again.

                                 

                                Mikkey - Has the thread name released the shackles?  I hope you sort your issues out asap and get back to schooling us.

                                 

                                me - Another good week - this is a base week in the coaches plan aiming at April 16.  The long run went really well - this is the sort of run that might have led to cramp in warmer conditions with increasing pace but not a hint of it.  Hopefully it's a combination of my more scientific training and the strength work.  I'm getting eye surgery (implanted contact lenses) on Tuesday so this week will be pretty light until Saturday.

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 09/01/2023 To 15/01/2023

                                <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                                in m
                                09/01 Warm up 0.34 0.55 00:03:28 10:12 06:18 0
                                09/01 Easy med long 9.37 15.07 01:20:46 08:37 05:22 23
                                11/01 Warm up 0.32 0.52 00:03:09 09:51 06:03 0
                                11/01 Endurance Run - 45 mins in Z3-4 10.71 17.23 01:25:22 07:58 04:57 12
                                12/01 Recovery hour 6.40 10.30 01:01:15 09:34 05:57 14
                                13/01 Warm up 0.34 0.55 00:03:26 10:06 06:15 0
                                13/01 Easy 50 with 5 x 15 seconds strides 5.92 9.52 00:50:33 08:32 05:19 9
                                14/01 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:26 10:06 06:21 0
                                14/01 Long run with 4 x 8 min efforts lifting throughout 15.06 24.23 02:01:27 08:04 05:01 26
                                15/01 Recovery hour 6.42 10.33 01:00:34 09:26 05:52 14

                                Total distance: 88.85km (55.22mi)

                                5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                                 

                                2024 Races:

                                Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                                Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                                Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                                Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024