Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 244 times)

dktrotter


Dorothea

    Hi all - thanks for following and cheering virtually.  Here's a link to my race report.

     

    The short version is - it was warm but not awful; my gait was really good in the middle of the race but the neuro issues flared at the end and those slowed me more than the warmth or fatigue.  Overall, I was still satisfied with it - I ran two minutes slower than Chicago but after factoring in the fact that this race was about 15-20 degrees warmer, I felt like this was a better performance than Chicago and an indication that things are trending the right way.

     

     

    darkwave, enjoyed your report. You know, I've never had Chipotle, but there's one five minutes from my front door. You've persuaded me to try it sometime. I like all the notes around your race too! I also always try to use public transport, though I prefer above-ground versus under.. I can get absolutely no feel for a place shuttling around below the earth. My favorite thing to do to get to know new places is run. :-) As for the race itself, sounds like you had a plan and executed it to the best of your ability. Annoying that you lost time being stuck behind the pace group. As for personal worsts... I know people who consider their PRs a personal worst, simply because they couldn't execute their race plan or felt terrible afterwards. Glad to see this was a good race for you based on positive trends that I hope continue!

    Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

    Last race: 12-11-22 Jacksonville Marathon bust, 3:32:59

    Up next: Ft. Lauderdale Marathon  Feb. 19, but also probably, most likely, definitely Hungryland 40-Mile March 25

    dktrotter


    Dorothea

      re: 1200s... thanks all! I see now what the concern was. The workouts you're all thinking of sounds brutal. Yeah, my coach told me to do them at 5k pace, but I haven't been able to reach that on the longer intervals yet... hovering at or around 7mpm, which is closer to my 10k pace (which is why I say 5k-10k... it's somewhere in-between). But it FEELS like 5k pace, so I'm probably just not as fast as I was before the latest marathon cycle. Either way, it doesn't feel like a VO2 max workout. It feels like my coach has me doing a lot of marathon-specific endurance intervals, and 2 mile WU is much different than 8-mile! My workouts are staying below 10-miles total for now. Yesterday I did 6 x 600s at 5k pace (this time it was 5k) and that felt more draining... I don't know. I'm not thinking too hard about it. Part of the benefit of having a coach is that they do that thinking for one.

       

      Keen, I would normally give myself more of a break after a marathon... one does need the rest and getting sick is the body's way of telling one that, but I feel like I have something to prove and with the exception of the week 3 issues, my body seems to be cooperating. Cool race plans for the spring! And maybe a 100-miler this year! Wow! Also, re: the guy who thinks strides are all one needs... how is that working out for him?

       

      Flavio, don't get me wrong! I love walking around barefoot! And I don't wear shoes in the house, so when I'm at home, I'm barefoot. It just doesn't give a lot of support for the foot (plus seems particularly dangerous for my toes, apparently), so it doesn't always seem like the best idea.

       

      RP, the ice issues will pass soon, I hope. Also, remember that the body needs some time to adjust to doing workouts again. If you're not hitting paces the way you want, wait until next week or week after next with the consistent plan.

       

      mmerkle, how's the foot thing? Re also fishy, I didn't realize strides had to be a specific length to be effective.

      Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

      Last race: 12-11-22 Jacksonville Marathon bust, 3:32:59

      Up next: Ft. Lauderdale Marathon  Feb. 19, but also probably, most likely, definitely Hungryland 40-Mile March 25

      Fishyone


        Re also fishy, I didn't realize strides had to be a specific length to be effective.

         

        LOL- I don't know what the hell I'm doing out there most of the time I'm sure they don't have to be but in my weird OCD brain I like the idea of a consistent length.  All I know is it's too short in reps and distance for me to be considered a workout.

        5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          dk I’m HAPPY to be hitting these paces. It is a normal feeling for me with this training plan. The runs are probably exactly where I need to be for self motivation knowing the results have shown themselves again and again. It feels hard, and I guess my “comfortably hard” is harder than lots of people find comforting. The comfort comes after the workout is completed I guess.

           

          mick I just don’t lie running on them. Also space.  I use my garage for storage, parking, fun times, and Jeep stuff. A treadmill lived there for a year when my wife used it to trail for a run in spring. I just never got into it. Maybe if I had a fancy one, but maybe I just enjoy going outside more than playing video games (zwift) inside since I’m older.

           

           

          I like being barefoot, or wear8ng just socks. I don’t know why.

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 52.45

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

          JMac11


          RIP Milkman

              If you run them at mile pace throughout you will involve the type 2a muscle fibers but you're unlikely to be engaging the type 2b because you're just not getting close enough to an all-out sprint.

             

            Can you explain this? I haven't heard of this 2a vs 2b thing before. Also, I'm thinking about this more in terms of runners like us, not necessarily people training for shorter races (let's say 3K or less), so I'm curious around the benefits there. Definitely understand doing repeats at much faster paces when you're training for shorter races.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

             

            JMac11


            RIP Milkman

               

              JMac quick question on run commuting, something I have been doing quite a bit. Just curious: if you have a backpack with laptop, and you need to fit in la JD repeat like 5x3min at I pace - how much do you decrease your normal I pace if any, for the extra weight?

               

               

               

              Unfortunately I can't help you on that: I don't run with a backpack. I keep all my clothes at work if I'm run commuting home, and then just take home a big bag of clothes at the end of the week. I can't imagine doing something like that workout with a backpack on!

               

              DK - excuse me? You've never had Chipotle before??

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

               

              flavio1980


              Intl. correspondent

                Lord Commander - I can run, so I'm happy. Cough is still ongoing as is the sore throat.
                It seems you got hit quite strong after your marathon huh? I know though that we'll be seeing you running insane mileage in no time.

                Jmac - Yay fast workouts! Especially since you're probably running sub 5 pace for the mile repeats.

                Fishy - I do much simpler strides, more like 8 x 10s while picking up the pace or maybe just keep the pace and run smoothly.
                Also just wanted to make it clear I'm not proselytising re: barefoot shoes 😂

                MMerkle - you would run faster than mile pace if you're working on leg speed. Though to be fair, you would probably do that kind of workout while training for the 1500m.
                But it's good to run all out from time to time to keep the legs sharp, keep that kicking ability at the end of races.

                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                flavio1980


                Intl. correspondent

                   

                  DK - excuse me? You've never had Chipotle before??

                  I have been to Chipotle, it would not be my first choice, I understand DW has no other choice so she has to have it 😁

                  PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  mmerkle


                    I think where Mark might be coming from is type 2b is used for very short duration, explosive movements like sprinting and weight lifting, while type 2a gets used for things more medium and even long distance, where I think long distance uses a mix of types 1 and 2a but this is where I get confused. I'm no expert but I thought things like fast 200s recruit both 2a and 2b, where the 2b gets used primarily for the acceleration? I think 2a burns glucose aerobically while 2b burns it anaerobically (and also creatine), in a nutshell.

                     

                    And JMac the idea behind those sessions is I am specifically targeting speed, like top or near top speed. Why? Because I like to have it, even during marathon training (also right now I'm not sure what I'm doing besides the 10 miler). I like racing shorter distances throughout the year and I like having speed in my back pocket. I'm afraid if I don't use it, I'll lose it. And while I'm at it, I just think running 800 pace is fun.

                     

                    dk It feels like it's getting better but it's still there. It hurts less to cross my big toe over my second toe. I think overall the discomfort comes and goes in waves. It doesn't really hurt to the touch but walking barefoot on hardwood floor is unpleasant. That's actually worse than running in grass or on a treadmill.

                    CommanderKeen


                    Cobra Commander Keen

                      Fishy - Not all ultra, but almost certainly partly ultra.
                      I've told myself for years that "when I get fast enough..." I'll try a couple ultras. After last year I think I've done that, so I'm giving it a go. I don't have any thoughts of focusing on ultras at all after this year.

                      I don't do the strides nearly as "consistently" as Pfitz calls for - I just start running hard while focusing on form and count to 15 or so and then slow down.


                      My oldest (almost 12) is quite an athlete and says she'd like to run but won't actually do it if I ask her. My middle daughter (8) loves running and has done up to 2 miles (no stopping!) with me before. She actually did a mile or so on the treadmill this morning before school, forgetting that today is when she also has running club before school!


                      RP - I think my recovery post-marathon would actually go better if I was able to run a bit and wasn't sick and mostly staying in bed.
                      As soon as you mentioned "Hawaii in January" I knew exactly where you were going!
                      You've been doing really well on those interval workouts lately.


                      Dorothea - Definitely give Chipotle a try! It's also my go-to before a race. They're pretty much everywhere I'd run a race and so a dependable option, and a bit "cleaner" than most fast food.
                      The guy who thinks strides are all you need hasn't posted any race results (from 5k to 100 miles) that look like improvement in years.


                      JMac - Type 1 fibers are your classic slow twitch, while 2b are short duration/high intensity (sprints/lifts), while 2a are more flexible - jacks of all trades, master of none if you will. Type 1 and 2b fibers are only good at what they're good at, but 2a fibers are somewhat trainable - if you do mostly sprinting/higher intensity stuff those fibers will adapt and get a bit better at those activities (and worse at endurance), while if you're doing more 10k effort or slower stuff then they'll trend more toward endurace (at the cost of top-end ability).

                      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      Heartland 50 - May 6

                      JMac11


                      RIP Milkman

                        My middle daughter (8) loves running and has done up to 2 miles (no stopping!) with me before. She actually did a mile or so on the treadmill this morning before school, forgetting that today is when she also has running club before school!

                         

                         

                        Why am I not surprised of all the people on this thread, you have an 8 year old already doing doubles?

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                         

                        Marky_Mark_17


                           

                          Can you explain this? I haven't heard of this 2a vs 2b thing before. Also, I'm thinking about this more in terms of runners like us, not necessarily people training for shorter races (let's say 3K or less), so I'm curious around the benefits there. Definitely understand doing repeats at much faster paces when you're training for shorter races.


                          2b is your explosive, top-end speed. 2a is I guess what you’d describe as more sustained high speed, I guess like 400-800m pace. Aside from a full sprint being the only way other than weights to work those 2b fibers, it’s also pretty good for your running efficiency. Aside from hill sprints, it’s about the only time you really properly get up on your toes (which feels pretty great tbh).

                           

                          A lot of elite marathoners will run 200m repeats in the mid-20s. Not saying any of us are in that category but that’s clearly pretty close to a full sprint for them.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                          Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          AndyTN


                          Overweight per CDC BMI


                            2b is your explosive, top-end speed. 2a is I guess what you’d describe as more sustained high speed, I guess like 400-800m pace. Aside from a full sprint being the only way other than weights to work those 2b fibers, it’s also pretty good for your running efficiency. Aside from hill sprints, it’s about the only time you really properly get up on your toes (which feels pretty great tbh).

                            Would 100-200m sprints using one of these running parachutes be beneficial to distance runners? I bought one of these for my son for baseball to build explosiveness for running the bases and chasing flyballs in the outfield. Other than playing around with it in the backyard, I have yet to do any serious sprints with it since it would be a bit embarrassing running the neighborhood.

                            Memphis / 37 male

                            5k - 21:01 / 10k - 45:20 / Half - 1:40:17 / Full - 3:38:10

                            AndyTN


                            Overweight per CDC BMI

                              JMac quick question on run commuting, something I have been doing quite a bit. Just curious: if you have a backpack with laptop, and you need to fit in la JD repeat like 5x3min at I pace - how much do you decrease your normal I pace if any, for the extra weight?

                               

                              I go by feel and there its probably 15 seconds slower than no weight, but I am on a metric system and quite slow. So just curious. 

                              Mick - I don't think you really have to worry about the extra weight slowing you down much but just to keep your pack from bouncing to the point of annoyance. I usually run with 2L of water in a running pack and will sometimes put a 5-lb weight in there too for some extra resistance. That is almost 10 lbs on my back and it likely only slows me down 8-10 seconds per mile at the same effort. I couldn't imagine your laptop and some other minor office supplies adding up to more than 3-5 lbs. My office is a 45-minute drive so I can't answer any questions about run commuting though.

                              Memphis / 37 male

                              5k - 21:01 / 10k - 45:20 / Half - 1:40:17 / Full - 3:38:10


                              Glute Force

                                Jmac I thought you had once inquired on backpacks and then I saw you run commuting on strava; hence I asked.

                                 

                                andyTN i have all my clothes in the backpack so it’s not super heavy but also probably closer to some 5 pounds and I just use it as an excuse to slow down as I am constantly tired. But I got it- shouldn’t slow me down at all. Will try that!

                                 

                                RP ok well I did go on a peleton TM once and I ran through Sydney it was  a movie someone had taken like Flavio’s clips on YT but quite good as the speed adapts. And I ran past all those landmarks; pretty cool. But I don’t have the kind of change for that so that was only in the gymn once. I see a lot of Tesla’s under water in your area mostly on the West Coast (either the loan or the vehicle or both). But your Jeep should be fun in ice slush water?