Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 552 times)


Resident Historian

    Mikkey those Lunaracers felt so fast. I remember getting my first pair and couldn't believe how light they were.

    Apparently adidas have just released a 4oz racer that costs 400 pounds uk and is only good for a warmup and marathon 

    Yeah, I loved the Lunaracers too!

    Those adidas shoes turned up this morning in Berlin:
    https://www.letsrun.com/news/2023/09/tigist-assefa-obliterates-womens-marathon-world-record-with-21153-in-berlin/

    Neil

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

    CalBears


      Congrats Steve! Yes, that marathon PR now looks ridiculous Smile

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      dktrotter


      Dorothea

        Steve, it is so great to see your race result. I'm sure you're also relieved to see some validation for what you know you're capable of. I was thinking about you during my run today, and why your great performances in the 5k-half aren't carrying over to the marathon. I'm sure there's an answer that you'll figure out soon, but I can imagine part of it is mental, since when you don't have time to get negative thoughts, you do really well! Also, it's good you arrived early enough to recover from the travel stress before your half. Lots of folks ran in Berlin having landed Friday or Saturday from the Americas... not ideal!

         

        Flavio, a nice pre-race week! I just noticed that you get quite a bit of incline on your runs! Koeln will be super flat, relatively speaking. Hope your taper goes well!

         

        Marky, also a nice taper-ish week. I have to ask, though, what's the Goat?

         

        Cal, Mikkey, RP, I am kind of hoping that documentary happens. CIM will certainly be a race to follow come December.

         

        Berlin : I want to be excited about the women's world record, but I'm also kind of concerned that it's such a big difference, and I'm waiting for it to be ratified before I start thinking about how cool it is. And then I feel bad about doubting it. Thanks Lance. Mind you, the previous record of 2:13 is already mind-blowingly amazing to me.

         

        Me: See log below. I'm breaking some rules of training, I know, as far as balancing my long runs to the rest of my training. I'm doing a decent amount of cross training, but I feel guilty about it not being the same. Still, 5 weeks into proper training and my body is responding pretty well. My 800m workout was better than at the end of last season and I am pretty happy with Saturday's long run workout, which I honestly wasn't even sure I could pull off.

         

        Weekly for period: From: 09/18/2023 To 09/24/2023 [edited the 800m workout for distance accuracy]

         

        Date

        Name

        mi

        km

        Duration

        Avg/mi

        Avg/km

        Elevation Gain 

        in ft

        09/18

        More recovery, more "hills"

        5.19

        8.35

        00:47:19

        09:07

        05:40

        371

        09/19

        8 x 800ms

        8.8

         

        01:17:58

         

         

        0

        09/21

        Easy w/ some beach

        6.84

        11.01

        01:03:38

        09:18

        05:47

        177

        09/21

        Afternoon Run

        1.07

        1.72

        00:10:04

        09:24

        05:51

        0

        09/23

        16 miles mp/float alternating

        20.01

        32.20

        02:46:04

        08:18

        05:09

        105

        09/24

        Recovery Run

        5.63

        9.06

        00:53:24

        09:29

        05:54

        85

        Totals: Time: 7:00:53 - 🦅Imperial: 47.8 mi - Metric: 76.93 km

        Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

        Last race: Philadelphia Marathon Nov. 19. Great race conditions, though not personally. Eked out a sub 3:30 and a PR. 

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          Thanks all, it really feels amazing to get a result like this.  It's been a huge 4 weeks with 5km, 10km and half PRs.  And yes, that marathon PR does indeed look ridiculous now.  It will be nice to head into summer and a planned base build with no feeling of missed opportunities in races.  I'll probably do a Park Run or 2 to mix things up but there's no urge to cash in now that I've done it.

          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

           

          Upcoming Races:

          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024

          Christchurch Marathon April 21, 2024

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            Run Prix Half-Marathon Race Report

             

            Earlier in the year I thought going to New York to do the marathon in 2024 seemed like a good idea, and a once in a lifetime event.  I want to do it while I'm still running close to my best.  My struggles in the marathon make me unsure if I'll commit to 2024 - I need to nail a good one first - but I decided to go ahead with trying to qualify which means a sub 1:28 in my age category.  Obviously even if I qualify, it's still a long shot to get one of the few overseas entries.  Most likely I'll need to purchase an entry as part of a package tour.

             

            Run Prix popped up in my feed as a new event, 3 weeks before the Melbourne marathon.  I had been hunting for an AIMS certified race on a fast course which is frustratingly hard to find.  Dunedin was an option, but they only certified the full, not the half.  Auckland is fully certified but isn't a fast course and is in early summer in a climate I find hard to race in, especially given I don't train in it (humid heat rather than dry heat).  So Run Prix came along at the right time, it's on the Albert Park F1 circuit and includes a 10km with some decent prizemoney and sub 40 qualifying for men and sub 45 for women, so it attracted a decent field including some Olympians.  Jack Rayner won in 28:34.  There is also an open 10km, 5km and Half marathon.

             

            My build up was as perfect as it could be, with a big base from all the marathon training, then 3 months of some good speed work with Park Runs and a 10km tune up.  I PR'd in the 5km and 10km and luckily got my sickness out of the way in August, so I had a clear run all the way to race day.

             

            I arrived in Melbourne on Wednesday night, a pretty uncomfortable flight but by Sunday I felt rested and my sore back from the awful seats was much better but still sore enough to take some Ibuprofen pre-race.

             

            My mate Boz picked me and my partner up and we were on the course at 7am for a 7:40am start.  I went through a gentle warm up then into the race shoes (Endorphin Pro 3) for some strides.  I've only worn them once for a race, in the Christchurch marathon DNF.  They felt great, lots of pop and support.  Into the start for 5 mins and I had a caffeine maurten gel in the last minute.  The weather felt great, cool and calm - the forecast was for the temperature to increase quickly but not until late in the race.  The gun goes and we're off - I try to settle into 4:10/km for at least the first 5km - my goal pace was about 4:08/km but I wasn't worried about letting a few seconds go early on.  The course is 4 laps, no sharp turns, set up perfectly for fast times.  The first laps feels pretty solid, and once I settle into a nice pace I'm feeling really good.  On the far side of the course there's a 1km stretch with a decent headwind, which is strange because the rest of the course seems very calm.  It was supposed to pick up during the day so I expected it on each lap and knew it was a short period of work.  It did get stronger on each lap but on the last lap it magically disappeared which was a very nice surprise.

             

            I head down pit lane to complete the first lap with splits of 4:07, 4:13, 4:11, 4:12, 4:07, 4:10 (there is an extra km on the first lap) so I'm bang on where I want to be, and don't feel like I'm working too hard.  I see Boz and my partner who try to make me laugh to stay relaxed. There are 2 drink stations on each lap and I decide to grab water at the second one, take a gulp and pour the rest over my head.  I'm not too hot yet but I want to get ahead of the game.  Boz told me later that my partner saw that and was a bit worried but everything was still under control.  On the second lap I find myself alone with about 30 metres in front and behind me which isn't great.  I've already reeled in quite a few people but I prepare myself to be running solo for most of the race.  I keep grabbing cups, although at the drink station on the second lap a guy in front of me grabs a cup so I make eye contact with the last person holding out a water and make a line for that cup...but the guy to my right cuts right in front of me and grabs it (he now has one in each hand) and I'm out of luck.  I don't dwell too long on that, I hadn't planned on drinking much.  The splits on the second lap are 4:14, 4:10, 4:13, 4:08, 4:06 so with 10km to go I'm right where I want to be, and I don't feel like I've used up too much energy.  The main 10km starts just after I go past the start/finish and 5 or so go past me and possibly give me a bit of a kick as my pace increases.  There are lots of slower runners to lap now, so I'm not alone anymore but I do need to pick my lines.  I run tangents wherever I can.  The second woman is about 300 metres ahead and for about 5km I reel her in and she makes a really good target to chase.

             

            I remember going through 15km and it feels like the race is going really fast.  I go past Boz and my partner near the end of the third lap and say to them "it's business time" - I wanted to send the signal that I felt good and it was still on.  That's exactly how they took it, and told me later they knew then it was game on.  My splits on the third lap were 4:08, 4:05, 4:06, 4:03, 4:03.  I didn't bother doing any calculations of what I needed, I just knew I was on track and just needed to hold my effort.  It crossed my mind that I could ease off a touch and get my target but I quickly decide that I'm going to go as hard as possible - there's only 5km to go, I feel good, and worst case I blow up, I won't need to hold on too long.

             

            I really lift the effort as I head into the last lap, grab a cup and again tip it over my head.  I decide this is the last one as the other drink station is only 1.6km from the finish.  At about 17km I pass the second woman who is breathing much heavier than me - she's also lifting her pace though and finishes very strong.  17km is 4:02, 18 is 4:01 and I'm getting excited.  I tell myself the job isn't done and I have to finish it off or it's all for nothing.  The breeze I expected for most of the 19th km has dropped and my next split is 4:03.  As i go round the bend which on previous laps was the end of the headwind I knew it was time to empty the tank so I'm really going for it now.  It's starting to hurt but I know if I fade I'm close enough to hang on so I don't take the soft option and decide to risk it.  I'm a bit surprised to see the 20th km flash up in 3:54, and I know now I might even go sub 1:27, but I'll need a fast finish.  I'm pushing hard, breathing heavy and really hurting but I know I can handle this level of hurt for a km.  Round the last bend and into the home straight, absolutely flying.  21km is 3:48 and into the last 200 metres I'm sprinting to the finish.  The last 200 metres is at 3:38 pace and I go through the finish in an official time of 1:26:48.  I look at the watch a couple of times to make sure it's real.  I only take about a minute to feel better - Boz and my partner run over and seem as pumped as me, my goodness it's a great feeling.

             

            42nd overall, 9th in my age category and comfortably under the New York qualifying time.  This last month has been a dream with some big breakthroughs and real reward for a 3 years of mileage records.  It's all the better because I'm all too familiar with the feeling after a bad race.

             

            I'll take a few quiet weeks, soak it in, and then start mapping out the next few months with my coach to get that large marathon monkey off my back.  The support I've got from this forum, my friends and family and the rest of the coaching group has been amazing and a key factor in getting results like this.  I feel a bit lighter going into a marathon block and it feels like the pressure is off somewhat.

            5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

             

            Upcoming Races:

            Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024

            Christchurch Marathon April 21, 2024

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Might as well drop my week while I'm at it.  I've got a couple of scheduled days off - I actually feel like I could run today but I'm not going to.

               

              Weekly for period: From: 18/09/2023 To 24/09/2023

              <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in m
              18/09 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:11 09:22 05:54 0
              18/09 Easy 50 6.39 10.28 00:54:33 08:32 05:18 22
              19/09 Warm up 0.33 0.52 00:03:07 09:27 06:00 0
              19/09 Easy shakeout 3.64 5.86 00:30:14 08:18 05:10 11
              20/09 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:12 09:42 06:02 0
              20/09 15 mins AeT into 3 x 3 mins LT 8.45 13.59 01:06:19 07:51 04:53 26
              21/09 Albert Park Recovery hour 6.67 10.74 01:00:16 09:02 05:37 8
              23/09 Shakeout 2.99 4.81 00:25:00 08:22 05:12 17
              23/09 Strides - 5 x 15 seconds 1.13 1.81 00:10:06 08:56 05:35 4
              24/09 Warm up with some strides 2.01 3.23 00:17:26 08:40 05:24 7
              24/09 Run Prix Half Marathon - New York qualified and PB! (Official time 1:26:48) 13.18 21.21 01:26:49 06:35 04:06 33
              24/09 Cool down 2.04 3.28 00:20:11 09:54 06:09 22

              Totals: Time: 06:20:24 - 🦅Imperial: 47.49 mi - Metric: 76.40 km

              5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

               

              Upcoming Races:

              Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024

              Christchurch Marathon April 21, 2024

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Steve - this was very good to see - congratulations!

                 

                RPDO YOU WANT MY CIM BIB? If not, perhaps it can go to one of DavePNW's friends.

                 

                Merkle - I don't think doing a single 50 miler will kill your 10K running in the long run, but it certainly won't help it either.  I think CK is giving good advice here, as are some others.

                 

                Marky_Mark - they did a 24 hour race during a time change? That is just cruel.

                 

                Flavio - all looking good - good luck next weekend!

                 

                DKTrotter - honestly, I think that some of the "rules" are only applicable to inexperienced runners. Once you know your body, you know which rules you have to follow and which ones don't apply.  My long run is often 1/3 or more of my weekly distance because I crosstrain so much, and I don't feel that's ever hurt me.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  54 miles running and 2:30 hours of pool-running
                  M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga
                  T: 7 miles trail-running (10:31) and upper body weights/core
                  W: 10 miles very easy (9:28) including some grass running and strides and streaming yoga.
                  Th: 10 miles, including 6 Iwo Jima hills, alternating between oldskool (~2:10 up, 90 second jog, 40 second stride, 1 minute to bottom) and new version (~2:45 up, 70 second jog, 30 second stride, 1 minute to bottom), Followed with injury prevention work.
                  F: 10.5 miles very easy (9:15) with some grass running and strides, followed by upper body weights/core.
                  Sa: 16 miles progressive on the treadmill, split as the first 5 miles averaging 9:26, the next 5 miles averaging 8:24, the next 6 miles averaging 7:27, and then a half-mile cooldown. Followed with leg strengthwork.
                  Su: 1 hour pool-running and streaming yoga.

                   

                  The first part of the week was half-marathon recovery (that's actually continuing, since it will take about 10 days to totally freshen up) and then I returned to hard running with a hill workout to re-emphasize good running form. A tropical storm was supposed to hit us all day Saturday as well as Sunday morning, so I did my long run on the treadmill on Saturday rather than risk being caught in the middle of a storm several miles from my car. As it turned out, the storm wasn't that impressive and I could have run outside without much issue other than getting a bit wet.

                   

                  Two weeks from Chicago. I'm feeling OK about my fitness, but slightly concerned about whether I'll make it there. For those of you who don't follow US politics closely, there is a possibility that our government will temporarily shut down starting October 1 due to arguments about the government budget. If that happens, some federal employees will be furloughed and not allowed to work until some agreement is reached, while other federal employees will be "essential" or "exempt" and required to work.

                   

                  I am a federal employee now, but I do not yet know whether I am considered essential/exempt. I'm hoping I'm not. Because if I am essential/exempt and required to work, then the vacation time I scheduled for Chicago will be cancelled, and that will suck, since I won't be able to fly out to Chicago on Friday morning. In that event, I'll try to swap my flight and fly to Chicago on Saturday morning, but I'm not sure I'll be able to.

                   

                  My back up plan is to race a good half-marathon within driving distance that same weekend, and then take a little time before focusing on Houston. I don't want to do another marathon later in October, because that will be too close to Houston, and I'd rather race Houston Marathon than a random marathon in October.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    Longboat how is your recovery going ?

                    Those shoes were probably barely 4oz in her size.

                     

                    DK the old world record was 2.14 so she went under by over 2 mins. I remember Paula Radcliffe's world record of 2.15 been untouchable for 16 years.

                     

                    Steve yours is such a great story of getting eventual success this year. Your commitment and consistency are key. Your new coaching setup seems really good too.

                    55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                    Somewhere in between is about right "      

                     

                    wcrunner2


                    Are we there, yet?

                       

                      Marky_Mark - they did a 24 hour race during a time change? That is just cruel.

                       

                       

                      It works both ways.
                      https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=103184

                       

                      And if it's really a 24 hour race, the end time is adjusted. I think it would be fun, and something I could confound my friends with since the start time and end time wouldn't match.

                       2024 Races:

                            Hoping to begin racing again in March.

                       

                       

                           

                      flavio1980


                      Intl. correspondent

                        WC/Dorothea - I know it is possible to do well in the 5k/10k after a 50 miler, especially if you avoid injury and have a lot of endurance, but I don't think that's the ideal/best course of action. 
                        Instead of running a 50 miler then taking 3 weeks to recover, I find it much better to use that time doing 5k/10k workouts.
                        It's the principle of specificity.
                        It's the same thing as your target is a fast marathon time, then you proceed to train for a 1500m with 4 workouts per week and a long run of only 12 miles.

                         

                        Longboat - I love the Letsrun site take on it. They think PEDs alone are not enough to explain such a leap in times.

                        That said, we have heard a lot of Kenyan busts lately, but not a single Ethiopian was caught as far as I can remember.

                        I think most everybody are on the gear and it's silly to single out Kenya and Russia.

                         

                        Dorothea - Yeah, I've done all the race workouts in roughly flat terrain to account for that. It's hard to find flat terrain though, more like false flat.
                        You seem to be getting back on track.

                         

                        DW - Sorry to hear about the uncertainly. That certainly sucks especially because you can only cancel your bookings until a certain date.

                         

                        me - Both me and my wife have injuries related to strength training. We're going to switch to a different gym after the race as we feel the strength training is not being properly programmed to account for our running.

                        Thankfully I have just an upper left trapeze pain which should hopefully not impact my running.

                        But my wife has been unable to run properly for 3 weeks now and will likely have to easy run her HM race due to a lower back pain.

                         

                        Team Ingebrigtsen wrap up - I can see Henrik's constant injuries come from him going over the red line multiple times. It just reinforces the thought that you should never fight physical pain as it has permanent consequences to your tendons and nerves.

                        Despite Jakob always finding a way to say some arrogant stuff during interviews, he seems like just a very driven person with a huge amount of self belief. There's no way he would beat the Kenyans and Ethiopians without an insane, nearly delusional level of confidence.
                        I found the whole thing very interesting, and I'd be very interested to see one following some Kenyans or Ethiopians as it gives so much insight into all the things that go in the preparation for the big races.

                        And how many factors are involved in racing well. Simple stuff like you want to run the inner lane so you run the shortest distance, but then you either are in front or at the back, cause otherwise you get boxed into a cluster.

                        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                        Up next: 

                        2023-12-03 - 42.5km long run

                        Tool to generate Strava weekly

                        CommanderKeen


                        Cobra Commander Keen

                          Steve - Like a BOSS!! I'm so psyched for you. Sub 20 for the final 5k is awesome.


                          Mark - Great quality last week.


                          DKT - Nice week, and it's great to see you being ever more active around here.
                          I also want to be excited for the record, but am somewhat hesitant for the same reasons you are. Even if the last women's WR was clean the one before it has been under a heavy cloud of suspicion since it was set.


                          DWave - That's really nice for a recovery week.
                          The last time the government "shut down" weren't something like 70% of .gov employees considered "essential"? Hopefully you don't get caught up in all of that garbage and Chicago goes off without a hitch.


                          Flavio - A sense of confidence that's considered "nearly delusional" can go from there to "appropriate" with just a single race result. It'll be interesting to see what Jakob is capable of in the future.


                          Next week I'll be in Wichita with DD1 for a soccer tournament and so won't have access to the gravel roads I do at home, so I did a dress rehearsal with all my race kit and nutrition for my 21 mile LR.

                           

                          The good news is that all the kit worked wonderfully and I had zero issues with it. The bad news is that that run was the 3rd worst run I've ever had (the first two spots being taken by marathons during which I happened to come down with a full-on illness).

                           

                          I felt fatigued by halfway (which shouldn't happen to me), and I stopped maybe 5 times in the last 8 miles. I'd sit or lay down, once I borrowed some water from a farmer to douse my head and refill a water bottle (that I hadn't emptied yet), and threw up some bile during my final stop, which was .9 miles from the house. Everything has felt fine since, though, including a really good 13 miler this morning, so I'm counting that as a one-off. One more big week remaining!

                           

                          Weekly for period: From: 09/18/2023 To 09/24/2023

                          <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in ft
                          09/18 2 meteors & 1 owl 14.00 22.53 01:57:20 08:23 05:12 696
                          09/18 Back to 100% 5.05 8.13 00:42:24 08:24 05:13 276
                          09/19 Watching the rain and lightning go away, then come back 9.00 14.49 01:25:01 09:27 05:52 584
                          09/19 3 hawks 5.05 8.13 00:46:25 09:11 05:43 249
                          09/20 6x mile 12.75 20.52 01:33:52 07:22 04:34 289
                          09/20 10x 600m 8.80 14.16 01:08:42 07:48 04:51 207
                          09/21 Zero wildlife 10.00 16.10 01:35:39 09:34 05:56 495
                          09/22 2x (12x 200m) hills 13.00 20.92 01:43:12 07:56 04:56 1112
                          09/22 1 slithery varmint (scat!) & 0 missing tortoises 5.05 8.13 00:45:39 09:02 05:37 223
                          09/23 I certainly didn't feel elite today 21.41 34.44 03:01:11 08:28 05:16 1115
                          09/24 2 ornate box turtles 6.05 9.74 00:57:11 09:27 05:52 328

                          Totals: Time: 15:36:36 - 🦅Imperial: 110.19 mi - Metric: 177.30 km

                          5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                           

                          Upcoming Races:

                           

                           

                          AndyTN


                          Overweight per CDC BMI

                            Run Prix Half-Marathon Race Report

                             

                            Memphis / 37 male

                            5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:36:58 / Full - 3:38:10

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              Congrats Steve! Yes, that marathon PR now looks ridiculous Smile

                               

                              +1, although having suffered through my last few, I now get why some people can't connect their half to their full.

                               

                              Very proud of you getting an NYC qualifying time though! I think Boston is "cool" from a history perspective, but if you're just going to run one marathon major, it's NYC in my opinion. The only way I might flip that is if one were running very, very fast times, as I think having a lot of people around you in Boston running your times is a very unique experience.

                               

                              Scott - I saw your Strava note. Definitely interested in a bib transfer. Message me with details.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              mmerkle


                                Steve Brilliant execution. I love that you decided NOT to ease off to cruise to a PR, and instead rolled the dice a little by going all out. Hell yeah. Very happy for you.

                                 

                                Dw I hope you don't get furloughed. Is 10 days the amount of time you have noticed it takes you to recover, or is that a rule of thumb?

                                 

                                Flavio I think part of the issue is that ultramarathons don't pay out like marathons and track events, so you don't see those super elites doing them.

                                 

                                Commander Your volume continues to impress me, especially with those workouts thrown in. I'm just as curious about the outcome of your upcoming half as your upcoming ultra.

                                 

                                Thanks all for the advice/opinions regarding the ultra. I'm still deciding what to do as I ramp my mileage back up. I'll make up my mind and announce my plans soon.

                                 

                                My week was just 43 miles / 69 kilometers all easy. Feeling recovered from Erie now.