Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Mmmm Bop
Mikkey - Boozing on a Monday night might be why your PRs are from prehistoric times* *There you go, you won't get that on The Waltons
Mikkey - Boozing on a Monday night might be why your PRs are from prehistoric times*
*There you go, you won't get that on The Waltons
Yeah I’m a bit embarrassed about the 3:06 I ran at Brighton last year as I was only 56 years old at the time!
I guess you aren’t aware that I’ve had a problem with my heel for the last 3 years which has restricted my training, but I’m actually feeling very positive this year and a return to Sub 3 marathons!
Good luck on your Sub 3:20 goal, I’m sure you’ll do it this year. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Hot Weather Complainer
Yeah I’m a bit embarrassed about the 3:06 I ran at Brighton last year as I was only 56 years old at the time! I guess you aren’t aware that I’ve had a problem with my heel for the last 3 years which has restricted my training, but I’m actually feeling very positive this year and a return to Sub 3 marathons! Good luck on your Sub 3:20 goal, I’m sure you’ll do it this year. 👍
That was too easy. Only a Walton would use an injury as an excuse
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
In all seriousness, I think everyone here wants you running consistently back at your best.
My goal race this year is a downhill marathon and I’ll be digging out my old Hoka Bondi shoes to help avoid pain in my quads.
You big Dosser
My Dad told me during walkies this morning that he’s a Moose Mug winner!
Intl. correspondent
Fishy - I'm running a 10k on Feb 5th. Not sure what my target will be, the workouts this week should tell me more.
DW - That's promising, I'd love to see you hammering those low 5 miles again.
Dorothea - Late to the party here but 9@true HMP should be impossible to achieve. Max I ever done was 9km, 5 miles/8km is probably long enough without going into the well too early.
Zebano/MMikkey - The best training is the one you do, hex bar, trap bar, 1 inch bar, olympic barbell.
Dave - I usually just read the TL;DR section of his reviews, and then might dive into one specific section that interests me.To be honest he's certainly hiring somebody to help with the writing these days.
Steve - 😂😂😂
Mark - Piwi is like a stray cat, he will come and go, especially in summer. Didn't he win a surf competition the other day?
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
This sounds like a problem common with many inexperienced runners. You're "heel striking." As your age advances and your stride length shortens there's a tendency to try to "overstride" causing you to land on your heel vs. the more classic "mid-foot" strike. If you add some short strides to the end of a couple of runs it might increase your "leg turnover" and bring you into to proper form......
OR as my coach once told me Fishy - there's one solution to your problem: get faster
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Overweight per CDC BMI
After two very easy runs with the Garmin Running Dynamics Pod, here are my results so far. The only problem is that I don't know what is good and what is bad other than the average cadence.
- Cadence: 182
- Stride Length: 0.87m (two slow runs)
- Vertical Ratio: 9.2%
- Ground Contact Time: 244ms
- GCT Balance: 49.6% L / 50.4% R
- Vertical Oscillation: 8.1cm
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
Problem Child
It's late, but still here. Y'all are moving QUICK this year.
I lost an easy run day to ice/snow/crap weather.
My marathon paced workout was moved to Friday due to time. I was running loops with the same Olympic Trials Qualifier I fan girled about last time I saw him. He was doing 5:00/mi or faster. I don't know the Km/Hr eqivalent of "making like a bread truck." MY running portion was kind of hard. The last mile started out slow (7:05/mi) and I just had to dig deep and get to the finish line I've created mentally. I was working so hard and it really did feel like the 188 bpm heart rate was accurate. I got it done, and kept thinking of the final turns at CIM and the final straight away at Boston to keep pushing until the mile was over. I think part of me died that day, and Marathon Scott pulled out some hard work. Later I realized I'm doing CIM PR level workouts in non-CheaterFly Super Shoes. At 4,500 ft (1,371m) elevation on a flat course.
The long run was kind of short because I met up with a buddy for his, and we just jogged what I came up with from an old run at a convenient location. I got a few more miles on Sunday, and considered pulling a keen and getting a double to hit 70. I had no DEFINED goal of weekly mileage, but I seem to be aiming towards 70 miles just because it has worked in the past, and I have time time.
Speed went well. I did equal run and recovery 600m repeats. I believe they were all around 2:14 in duration.
Overall I'm happy about the week. I come home kind of sore/worn out from workouts, and later I feel just "normal" in the sense of "well yeah, this is marathon training normal."
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I’d be in the “work all systems year round” mentality, but this becomes too difficult. Jack of all trades, and master of none. You’d need to train for 3 days a week, and then get easy miles the rest of the week. This sounds just like marathon training to me and doesn’t sound fun. Also, there is a difference, to me, between 5k speed and marathon endurance. I know JMac just did a really long run this weekend. Something I’d never consider for a 10k training plan.
Flavio have you considered the “blue screen” glasses? I swear my wife has them. Something about “they’re better for people who stare at a computer screen all day long.” Just a thought.
JMac so with the “carryong clothes home” are you just sitting on the subway with luggage looking like a tourist? I’m actually interested. Mostly because I have this mentality of “you never know where that guy/girl is coming from/going to. They could just be moving around town.” In a city as large as yours it’s impossible to assume “oh they’re a tourist here on vacation” where as maybe someone in a small town in Oklahoma could easily say “you’re not from round these parts are you pardner?”
Also, sadly, I think cal is done here. I don’t have any clue what is going on in his personal life, but I think he’s done with the forum.
Andy I tried the “run dynamics” thing a few years ago. All it told me was I needed to work on something I couldn’t change. It was the same if I ran marathon pace, 5k pace, or easy jogging. Almost as if it was never going to be satisfied. Perhaps being so average is to my advantage. MY device ended up losing support, and the company probably failed, so it sits in a drawer. I sometimes wonder if it would actually still work if I could download the app. I never knew how to fix the vertical ossillation other than "run flatter" which means push yourself forward instead of up. I had to think consciously about how this would look from the side, and figure out how to do that without injuring myself. Stride length improved with speed....which makes sense. Faster run = greater distance covered in the same time = longer stride length = more efficient running = less ground contact time = less vertical oscillation = work on your cadence. So just get faster
DK Just a fun fact….Chipotle is the preferred meal for Darkwave before races. I know at one point I put heavy emphasis on pointing out when I ate chipotle and then had a good race. It’s in the same vein as mentioning Acai bowls and it being some kind of reference to Flavio.
The benefit you’d gain from doing a 50k between the marathon and the 40 miler just might be your chance at learning what it feels like and what you need to eat, then immediately starting a taper. It might take 2-3 weeks to recover from such a long run to be back to race shape. As mentioned elsewhere a back to back long run weekend could work. WITH THIS SAID….you have a coach for a reason.
Strides my version of a stride is to build up to what FEELS like top speed over 10 seconds, then run at this speed for 5 seconds and come down to a light jog pretty quickly. Wait…all y’all floss?
Steve best of luck on the half…unless it already happened.
Darkwave awesome on the meds. I hope it keeps improving. It’s been a long road to finding something you’ve been excited about.
DavePNW I follow a guy on Strava who lives “in vegas” (comparable to saying “in LA&rdquo and has as Tuesday trail run group EARLY in the mornings. IF you head back I can maybe send you his strava name and you could ask about his Tuesday run plans/schedule. He might also know a few spots OTHER than downtown. I ran there once. Oh man, it’s different. Also, I did a workout with some marathon paced miles before training this year. It definitely helped me mentally get into a positive mode, and made reaching for another big goal exciting….in that “this is going to be lots of work” kind of way.
M paced miles Hanson’s has 6-10 marathon paced miles on Thursdays. 1-3 mile warm up, or you could make it 6 if you wanted. They probably stole the idea from JD or Pfitz. Lots of specific paced miles to prepare for race day. I like them because it helped me mentally gain confidence I’m physically capable of what I’m about to do, and lots of time practicing eating/drinking/chaffing at race pace.
Moose mug I don’t know if I will be capable of getting one unless I keep training hard through my 40s and into my 50s. By then I doubt anyone will make them, and my kids will buy me a moose coffee mug as a consolation prize. A 2:45 would blow my fucking mind if I did it at 45 or 46 years old. Is it a “:00” thig or a “:59” thing?
CIM is 22 miles of rolling hills to a bridge, and 4 miles of flat with two left hand turns and a sprint.
RIP Milkman
Steve - give Mikkey a break. Remember, when you're an old man, everything hurts so much people should give you participation awards for just showing up. That's why they invented Age Grading - it's the 55 year old man's equivalent of a sticker. I give one to my daughter all the time for when she uses the toilet correctly, which I guess becomes an issue too once you get an old enough.
RP - I would stick to something like 13ish miles if I was just doing pure 5K training, but given I'm going to run a half or two this spring and also CIM coming up, I don't want to lose my endurance. I feel something around 2ish hours is a perfect blend of maintaining endurance without going too far in distance.
On the run commute stuff, yeah, I have a backpack and huge bag I bring home at the end of the week. It's usually filled with coats I've accumulated over the week.
Finally, on Cal - I messaged him on Strava last week. He said he is doing well, but he is prioritizing all the other things in life that he feels he left behind with his intense running. My guess is his kid's getting older is hitting home, but he also mentioned prioritizing his health as running 100+ MPW is not a healthy form of exercise. He said he may come back at some point to write up his thoughts.
Andy - I feel like sometimes technology gets to just be a lot of noise, and I've felt that way about Garmin watches for a while now. Even this whole "recovery" thing everyone talks about doesn't seem that most useful. GPS was by far the biggest leap in technology, and then heart rate. After that, I feel like a lot of this is noise. Be careful not to try to change a lot, and if you are going to, I would change 1 thing at a time and then hold that for a month at least to let your body get used to it before you add a new thing.
DK - I will echo Flavio on Oakberry - at this point I should own some shares in the company with how much money I've poured into that shop over the past year.
Fishy - no NYC for me this year. I am so traumatized from that weather experience I am putting all of my eggs in the CIM basket. I will run NYC next year if we get a group of folks from this forum who make it.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Cobra Commander Keen
After two very easy runs with the Garmin Running Dynamics Pod, here are my results so far. The only problem is that I don't know what is good and what is bad other than the average cadence. - Cadence: 182 - Stride Length: 0.87m (two slow runs) - Vertical Ratio: 9.2% - Ground Contact Time: 244ms - GCT Balance: 49.6% L / 50.4% R - Vertical Oscillation: 8.1cm
Nothing looks off to me, though perhaps something will show for a workout or LR.
There was a very sudden, noticeable change in his article titles not long ago and they now all appear like your standard social media click-baity junk. Given that and that I'm likely not in the market for a watch or anything else for at least a year or two I could probably do with closing that tab.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
RP Looks like a solid week overall.
Fishy Heel striking is a bit controversial isn't it? I recall reading that for one particular half marathon that was analyzed, 75% of the elites were heel striking. My understanding is that it's much more important to focus on where your foot lands, rather than HOW it lands. You want it landing almost underneath of you rather than out in front. I think the idea is, if you do that, you will either mid-foot strike or maybe your heel comes down just a pinch before the rest of the foot, which I'm guessing is the "heel striking" done by the elites.
Pre-race meals Before short races I pay almost no attention to what I have the night before, but before a marathon I like fish and rice. I like to keep it light. Chipotle seems too heavy to me. But maybe I am missing something here. Is this why I can't break 3 lol?
Question: How seriously do y'all take rolling weekly totals? I always seem to have this annoying pattern of my rolling totals reaching higher numbers than my Monday-Sunday totals. But when I say I hit, say 70 miles per week during the peak of a cycle, I am referencing the Mon-Sun totals.
I pick a 7 day period that ends on Sunday and ignore other stuff. I wish Garmin would change to what I do, but I get a rolling total being important to some. It works if you’re doing the same thing every week I guess.
RP Looks like a solid week overall. Fishy Heel striking is a bit controversial isn't it? I recall reading that for one particular half marathon that was analyzed, 75% of the elites were heel striking. My understanding is that it's much more important to focus on where your foot lands, rather than HOW it lands. You want it landing almost underneath of you rather than out in front. I think the idea is, if you do that, you will either mid-foot strike or maybe your heel comes down just a pinch before the rest of the foot, which I'm guessing is the "heel striking" done by the elites. Pre-race meals Before short races I pay almost no attention to what I have the night before, but before a marathon I like fish and rice. I like to keep it light. Chipotle seems too heavy to me. But maybe I am missing something here. Is this why I can't break 3 lol? Question: How seriously do y'all take rolling weekly totals? I always seem to have this annoying pattern of my rolling totals reaching higher numbers than my Monday-Sunday totals. But when I say I hit, say 70 miles per week during the peak of a cycle, I am referencing the Mon-Sun totals.
Heel striking: Your take is the same as mine. It's only an issue if a person is over striding if/when they heel strike.
Chipotle: I can't recall DWave's usual order, but before a big race for lunch I'll get a bowl with double white rice and double meat - steak or pork. Nothing else. Super easy on the digestion. Actually seeing the caloric breakdown of this makes me want to order more next time. Only 720 calories!