Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Problem Child
Any book recommendations? I've read Daniels and Pfitz. What is the next must read? I prefer some focus on longer distance running.
Endure by Alex Hutchinson.
wcrunner welcome to the mix, I haven’t been as active (read ZERO) in the ultra thread as I have wanted to be. Just too much going on, plus snow. I really like it over there though.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Thanks all for the books. I'll pick one soon and dive right in. I'm worried that the ultra books might lead me towards that cult but I'm still gonna give them a chance. Audible recommended "running man" by Charlie Engle he seems to have a hell of a story.
WC -welcome! great to have another senior statesman around here. Now that Cal is gone I think Dave and I are the only adults. Note: I left MMikkey out intentionally as I'm only counting "adults"
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Overweight per CDC BMI
AndyTN - I always been very leery of making deliberate changes to my form. Without video evidence I can't confirm this, but I think the only time my form changes is what comes naturally at different paces. As I seem to be a natural mid-foot striker none of my coaches over the years have suggested any changes, and the one time I had my stride analyzed, I was told that it was fine as is.
As JMac and RP have said "don't get caught up in the data" the data is a bit overwhelming for me right now. I'm going to use the pod for data naturally and then have it later to see if it tells me anything. I am taking a break this week from speed work and know some of my stats will be different at paces under 7 minutes. I have also never been to the point of "my coach has told me" because I'm self taught with advice from the RA community so I have things to learn.
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
3 months til Masters
Getting my shiii...self together. Going to try to join in. Setting my races for the year and them get active on the thread again. Lord help me.....
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Mmmm Bop
At first glance this elevation chart looks fairly flat. But it’s actually a steady uphill climb from start to finish. Take my word for it as I’ve run the course 8 times.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Fishy - I haven’t bought a running book in years, but the one I liked most was ‘Run Faster’ by Brad Hudson on how to be your own coach. Maybe he has an updated version. 🤷♂️
DPS- Welcome back. Looks like your 2022 didn't go that bad look forward to hearing the plan for this year!
Thanks Mikkey- I think I have the Hudson book but obviously I need to take it down and give it another read.
Yeah my out and back lunch run is a similar profile uphill the entire way and usually a headwind in both directions Sometimes even in the snow!
Quick training question to the pros: I am on 40mpw at the moment, training for a marathon in 13 weeks.
I run 5 times a week some long, some quality, mostly easy. On days when I run commute, I was thinking I could double. However I am on a relatively low mpw schedule, so might not benefit much. I am not planning on running more than 5 days, it's the max I can do timewise.
70 minutes in the morning, 45 min in the afternoon would be a potential. Any thoughts? Better to up the 70 minute run to be 90 and drop the double? I know it serves different purposes, and I am not sure whether the 45 minute run will create any aerobic benefit. And if I plan to run long the next day, that might be too much.
Many thanks.
MJ
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
Quick training question to the pros: I am on 40mpw at the moment, training for a marathon in 13 weeks. I run 5 times a week some long, some quality, mostly easy. On days when I run commute, I was thinking I could double. However I am on a relatively low mpw schedule, so might not benefit much. I am not planning on running more than 5 days, it's the max I can do timewise. 70 minutes in the morning, 45 min in the afternoon would be a potential. Any thoughts? Better to up the 70 minute run to be 90 and drop the double? I know it serves different purposes, and I am not sure whether the 45 minute run will create any aerobic benefit. And if I plan to run long the next day, that might be too much. Many thanks. MJ
I will state that easy doubling seems to help me a lot, but I've mostly tested this at the shorter distances (mile and 5k especially). Given that you're marathon training, I'd lean into the longer runs as they are simply more specific. For your specific question I do think a 45 minute run will benefit you but I think a 90 minute run is better.
/my 2C
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
RIP Milkman
MJ - I think you answered your own question a bit. If you absolutely cannot run more than 5 days a week, which is going to really limit your marathon potential, then the only way to get more mileage is to double. It's going to bring on injury risk at 7 runs in 5 days is harder on the body than 7 runs over 7 days, but you know your body best.
Personally, I think everyday runs around 75 minutes are ideal for the marathon, give or take. I wouldn't push it up to 90 given your mileage. 70 and 45 sounds perfect. And you definitely get benefit from 45: I think the minimum you hear from many coaches is 30 minutes, although obviously there's some benefit at any level of running, even 15 minutes.
TLDR: if you can't run more than 5 days a week, 70 and 40 is good, although you will up your injury risk.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Thanks Zeb & Jmac that makes sense.
Since I am really paranoid about injury risk, I will add an additional day over the weekend instead of doubles.
Intl. correspondent
You do you bud.
wait a minute, it was MMikkey who was bragging about his 1 incher barbell* (sure Mikkey, call it whatever you like).
Also strides? Haven't you guys started running wickets like the big boys yet?
Now that is interesting, though I'm certain I'd look a lot worse doing it.
Andy - Kudos for starting with the dead lifts. If you're going to do bodyweight, one thing you can do is do single leg dead lifts. These are excellent for running.
wcrunner - I've googled this Gene Dykes dude, I'm so happy to see this big generation of people running strong in their 70s. It gives me hope that I will be able to do that as well.
DPS - Hey there, welcome back!
MickJogger - Careful there now. you're very close to race day now so no sudden moves. Maybe shorten that 70 minutes morning run to 50 minutes, then do 30 minutes in the evening? that will net you 80 minutes, so 10 minutes more than before, but you're not adding as much strain.
Also, Do one, maybe 1 double in a week and wait a few days to see what happens. If it was fine, next week add 30 more minutes on another day.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Mick J - IMHO, increasing from 5 to 6 days is a strong indicator of more "serious" marathon training. Hard to say what kind of impact you'll see in one cycle, but it will reap benefits long term if you can make that a routine. Flavio has a legitimate point about being careful making major changes at this point in the cycle. You'll probably be fine, but in general it's the kind of thing you might do in a base building phase.
Dave
Flavio But can you do one legged deadlifts on a bosu ball?
JMac Why is 100 miles per week unhealthy ? I'm not doubting it entirely I'm just wondering specifically why. Isn't there a difference between only doing it a few weeks out of the year during peak training, and doing it for several months of the year?