Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 573 times)

flavio The "stone bruise" or whatever it is still comes and goes, but is usually more of an issue while walking around barefoot than while running. Thanks for asking.

Andy The idea is, the max physiological benefits from easy paced running come from running 90 minutes - 2.5 hours, essentially regardless of pace. The second statement to my understanding is "within reason" ; I don't think walking for 90 minutes is quite as good as running/jogging easily. But anyway that's the idea. The reason for not going over 3 hours is, at that point it can take quite a long time (2+ weeks) for the muscles to fully recover.

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with long runs for half marathon training being almost as long as, if not AS long as they are for marathon training. But as always, everyone is different. The HM calls for a bit more quality work in my opinion so you want to make sure you are still getting that in.

What are some thoughts on the max distance on long runs training for a Half? JMac recommended to me last year when training for the full to max out long runs at 3 hours and not focus on whether it was 19 or 22 miles. My last 16 mile run was a month ago so I was thinking of just sticking to that as my max while getting in at least 14 for the next few weekends. I have 3 more weeks before the taper starts.

I would normally max out at around 2:15-2:30 for a half, probably around 19-20 miles.  Mostly a little shorter, around 1:45-2:00 or so.  I agree with JMac and mmerkle, those long runs are more about time on feet than distance.

I'd say depending on your history and goals, 2 hours is fine.  I'd add in some quality depending on how the rest of your week looks.

I discovered the perils of dehydration last night - I had a reasonably big medium long with 40 minutes of tempo running.  Halfway through the last 10 minutes I started to fade and my HR went high and I felt some nausea during my cool down.  By the time I went to bed I felt really sick with nausea and a headache.  I didn't sleep well and woke up very dry.  2 litres of water later and I felt much better.  It's been 30-35C maximums for the last week and I clearly failed to adjust my fluid intake enough.  Lesson learned.  We've got some cooler days for the next week and maybe even some much needed rain next week as we get the edge of Cyclone Gabrielle, which unfortunately looks set to slam into Auckland, the last place that needs it.

I'd say depending on your history and goals, 2 hours is fine.  I'd add in some quality depending on how the rest of your week looks.

 

I discovered the perils of dehydration last night - I had a reasonably big medium long with 40 minutes of tempo running.  Halfway through the last 10 minutes I started to fade and my HR went high and I felt some nausea during my cool down.  By the time I went to bed I felt really sick with nausea and a headache.  I didn't sleep well and woke up very dry.  2 litres of water later and I felt much better.  It's been 30-35C maximums for the last week and I clearly failed to adjust my fluid intake enough.  Lesson learned.  We've got some cooler days for the next week and maybe even some much needed rain next week as we get the edge of Cyclone Gabrielle, which unfortunately looks set to slam into Auckland, the last place that needs it.

Yuk.  Classic dehydration sign.  The times it's happened to me, that nausea / headache combo is the telltale sign.  Fortunately that hasn't been for a long time, although the first time I hit a big workout on a hot day in summer, I will sometimes have a bit of a lingering headache.  Glad you're feeling better now.

Yes we have... another storm due to hit next week.  Honestly at this point I really don't know what to make of it.  We have had warnings in the past that amounted to not much at all.  The first round of last week's storm was much more serious than all the warnings suggested.  Not much we can do about it either way, I suppose.

I was going to try and be brief in my response today, but nah. 

Thanks for giving a look into your race, Flavio! Yes, I think that pre-fueling strategy was on point, and it must feel good to have that PR without an asterisk! Awesome time, to boot. Those bridges sound a bit complicated, and it does sound a bit warm with the sun (though still mild, in my Floridian opinion ). I appreciate runners who give hand signals when they’re turning, and it’s challenging to run without KM markers… you did well trying to stay on pace. Too bad about the award! But congrats to you and your wife. You also made me want to visit Coimbra. I have only ever been to Braga in Portugal, and liked that a lot. 

Re: 5ks in Portugal… wait, what?! Does it have to do with people not wanting to pay money for only 5k? I get the feeling that’s the case sometimes in Germany. 

Re: heart rate, I would tend to agree that it must be a one-off thing or faulty watch reading, especially since no pink unicorns were  sighted, Steve. However, the fact that it progressed from the 150s fairly steadily confuses me, and while 190 is pushing max HR for me, I was also pushing pretty hard in the run. Yesterday during my track workout, I also reached the 180s on the last reps… maybe I’ve increased my threshold HR? This coincides with the lowest average RHR in months, so maybe I’m right where I want to be for fitness? I dunno. I’m not really concerned, just curious. 

That being said, darkwave you’re giving me reason to believe that I hadn’t technically entered the taper last week yet. I didn’t see it as hard entering it, but on this side of it, I think you’re right. Yeah, it was a 10k at 10k effort. I guess the taper does begin this week after all. Only easy runs from here on out, sans a short MP training next Wednesday. 

Btw, your Tuesday last week looks killer! The workout itself was tough, but leg strength after that? Bet the legs felt like jelly at some point that evening/the next day. Awesome hillwork during the 12-miler as well. 

Re watch reading, the last time I checked my “current pace” during a race was during a 5k in 2013. I learned the hard way that the current pace doesn’t match up with the actual pace at all. I do like to use my lap paces during training, but I’m thinking maybe even that isn’t helpful during a race. Though, like JMac described, I have noticed how seeing another good mile tick off even when not feeling great has been encouraging. Really is about walking that fine line. 

Dave, the hammer-the last-and-next-to-last approach takes some gumption, but it’s never regretted, right? Nice workouts last week. Also love that comic! So sad, so true. 

Fishy, a single minute between mile intervals is brutal. Way to go. 

CK, hope you can fix your treadmill! Though I agree with the comments above. It’s not surprising that even your treadmill can’t keep up with you. 

Re weather: Have to say, but March in Portugal is still cooler than any other time in Florida. (And did I read that you, flavio, think Florida is cold in winter? Because maybe north Florida gets into the 30s sometimes, but I can count the days it’s reached 35°F in the past 5 years here on one hand) I’d argue you can get some good weather still even in south Portugal in March— and I’ve PR’ed in the 5k at 76°F (24°C); Dew Point: 76° F… though that’s probably because it’s relative and all my 5ks have been run here—but don’t let weather stop you from thinking you can PR!). Also Krash, I understand the sentiment of wanting winter to be over, but I’m sitting over here like, wait, did winter even come? Not sure which is preferable. And obviously the New Zealand folks are in the heat of summer right now. I can sympathize about the dehydration. I probably drink 4 liters of water on average during the summer. I’ll drop to 2 a day in the winter, though some days that’s still not enough.  Sigh. I’m really bummed out by an uncharacteristically warm winter, tbh. I hope that cyclone veers off course from Auckland. 

So Steve, I can imagine your run in 3 weeks may be alright. And cool to see your year plans coming together. Like Flavio, I personally can’t conceive of anything after March, in my case after the 40-miler. I think I’ll want to take a bit of a breather, build to higher mileage, and then maybe find some summer races while abroad. As for 7 weeks being enough time for a marathon and a half, I don’t know if I’m the best person to give advice considering the risks I take in my own running, but if you’re going to push hard in Christchurch, then Selwyn may be too soon. I’d only say 7 weeks are enough if you didn’t take one or the other seriously. But sounds like you want to take both seriously so… 

JMac, I did end up looking up some Vaporflys after the last couple posts, but couldn’t find anything within my current budget, but I’m going to keep an eye out. (I have a fairly typical size 8.5) Also two great workouts last week. I tend to agree, a minute rest never really feels like enough. RP, I used to like Adidas! But they’ve been too stiff around the heel for my taste lately. Thanks for the offer, though. And Mark, I had to laugh about the color note. Honestly, not caring what my shoes look like has saved me a lot of money in sale shoes over the years. Question though: between the Vaporfly or ZoomFly, does it matter which I try first? Also, krash, Hoka is obviously a great shoe for ultras, but I am not convinced that I’d want those in anything shorter than a marathon! 

wcrunner, even 6-8 ultras in a year sounds like a lot to me! But yeah, it makes sense that distances, goals, and availability of races affect the schedule. Since marathon season in Florida is Dec-Feb, I find myself jumping into a lot of 5ks and 10ks the rest of the year, just because they fit the random running I do when not prepping for a marathon. 

Mark, it’s awesome you and your wife had that conversation about running with the 2nd child coming along. I have a few running mom friends and it’s of course a good model for the kid, but also helps them mentally in all the things it takes to be a good parent. Hope your wife has a similar something to keep her grounded. Good points about the instant gratification trends too, and the need to help kids counter those. I have Gen Z students for the first time, and they do have a different approach to work and earning a grade. Though some things also never change. 

RP, great to see you again! Sorry about the work thing, but hope something good turns up soon! And hope the training continues to go well.  

Andy, glad to see the tennis ball is working! Yeah, a massage ball is great for plantar fasciitis and other things, but the squishiness of the tennis seems to work better for glute and knee issues. And re: max distances, I forget what I did before using halves to tune-up for fulls, but I think 15 was the max I did (I guess it’s like 2:05-2:15 for me). It’s enough without being too much. 

 

 

 

 

wcrunner, even 6-8 ultras in a year sounds like a lot to me! But yeah, it makes sense that distances, goals, and availability of races affect the schedule. Since marathon season in Florida is Dec-Feb, I find myself jumping into a lot of 5ks and 10ks the rest of the year, just because they fit the random running I do when not prepping for a marathon. 

 

That does include races like the Bubbletown What the Duck 12-Hour where I run as part of a team.  Even though the standings are determined by total team mileage, it allows team members to run together, so it's really more a social run for me where I may or may not actually reach ultra numbers. I think last year I ran about 31.5 miles there with a lot of walking and long rests.  It may also include some 6-hour races where it's a real challenge for me to exceed the marathon distance.  DUV, a German website that tracks ultras, won't list a 6-hour result under 45K and that is a real stretch for me these days.

Keen - Thanks for the info, I should RTFM.
Also, eat the carbs!

Andy - if you do a proper taper before a 10k race and the weather is good, I'm really certain you can run either sub 43 or low 43.

Steve - My recommendation is to carry a small bottle with you. I find that I drink more water when I have that bottle by my side, then if I have to stand up and go find water somewhere else.

Jmac - Yeah, around 60 is probably the upper limit. Your weather is definitely colder than here in Portugal, there was even a meme last year with a certain country expecting Europe to freeze to death only to find the Portuguese enjoying life at 20c/70F. But it's also mostly because the Portuguese are lazy and their races start very late. I believe that's because the towns are small and they expect a lot of people to come from nearby towns, even 2 hours away.

DK - If you manage to PR at 24C, then you can safely assume you will run 1 to 2 minutes faster if you race around 10-15C.
My best 5k time in a warm day is 19 minutes, and best in cold weather is sub 18.

I saw this today: