Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
RIP Milkman
DK - the winter in Florida is so nice. I’m still not sure I could take the summer training, but days in the 70s in the winter are hard to beat. Regarding shoes, yeah just keep your eyes open, I’ve seen Nike go on sale basically every other month.
Fishy - no wonder the workout was hard, 5x1 mile with 1 minute rest at a little faster than 10K pace??? That sounds impossible! I’m with Steve that I would probably be doing 2 minute rests with that hard of a workout, I thought you were doing traditional cruise intervals, i.e. around 10 mile pace.
Flavio - yeah the late starts are rough, unless it’s the winter, then I love them. But otherwise, give me a 7 am start.
Watches - current pace should be put in the trash bin. It is useless!
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Cobra Commander Keen
LOL- Yes I guess the length of the interval would help They were 1 mile at a bit faster than 10K. The one minute was fine until the 3rd then the last two were tough. Splits stayed consistent through all 5 so I guess it was enough. Did it again today and it was better than last week.
That's tough, and sounds like CV intervals. Usually I'd do a minute recovery after 1k at that effort, not one mile. For miles I'd do about 90 seconds recovery for those.
Flavio - That's a good one.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Overweight per CDC BMI
Andy, odd that you'd be made coach without being asked... especially since you'd need to leave work early! But that is kind of cool! There were a group of 6-8 year olds having track practice Tuesday when I was there, and they were amazing at their 200ms. It is a joy to watch.
I have pretty much already asserted myself into that role by participating in almost all the practices and helping out during the races. 2 of the coaches have kids moving up to middle school next year so I had already mentioned I would be happy to help out officially next year. But I really enjoy doing it to help the kids get into the sport and I also get to spend quality time with my son. Some of the kids are amazing runners, especially if they play soccer too. Some of the fastest kids in our area consistently break 6 minutes in the mile races.
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
JMac- Glad to hear my "sucking wind" was warranted! I still trying to find the right paces for my workouts. Many of my MP miles are faster than planned but I hope it's because I'm underestimating my MP
Keen- The extra 30 seconds would have been glorious! It seemed my watch beeped for the end of the mile and I looked down to see 29 seconds left in the recovery WTF
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Problem Child
JMac a guy I run with frequently uses current pace. He always has. Even when I told him it doesn’t matter until he sees the mile time, and he asked ‘so you don’t care if you start at a 7 minute then run a 9 because it averages as an 8.’ Yeah except I don’t need to know how fast I was going 3 seconds ago. I don’t understand why it would ever be useful to know current pace.
AndyTN I limit my long runs to 16 or 2 hours. Sometimes they go a little longer. I just have too much to do with kids to have time for a 2.5 hour run plus eating, showering, second eating, and sleeping. If I’m starting a run at 5:30 and it’s over at 8 it would probably be 9am when I’m realistically ready to get moving for the day.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Dave, I used to prefer ASICS, but since being back in the US, I've been hooked on Ghosts. Also always a model or two behind, but they're my favorite shoe, even more than the Adrenaline, which I like too. Glycerine wasn't bad either. Have a pair of the Launches for races, but really want to try the VFs.
My equipment page is pretty repetitive, lol. The Ghost is my favorite too. I still rotate daily with the Adrenaline, but I always use the Ghost for LRs. I am sold on the Vaporflys; it took me a long time to justify the price to myself, but glad I finally took the plunge.
Dave
I don’t understand why it would ever be useful to know current pace.
I’ve never known anyone to use that; the option should just be eliminated from watches.
Dave - one thing I forgot to mention: the Zoom Fly does have a carbon plate. The difference is the foam. It is MUCH heavier. It's a great training shoe for things like MP or LT because it feels like a weighed down Vaporfly. But it definitely is an improved race shoe vs normal trainers. I really enjoy training in the.
The guy using it told me it averaged over the last 10 seconds and was smoother than the entire mile. I asked him to show this to me and he couldn’t. He also tried to prove me wrong about lap pace being the time for the mile, or something like that, and he couldn’t do it because the lap/mile time was always correct. He even grumped about ‘well how accurate is it? Instant pace is more precise’ until I start rattling off 1-2 second pace differences for an entire run about every single turn or speed up/slow down. Yeah. I’m THAT guy.
this is the same person who had his watch ‘bump something during CIM and pause for 10-15 seconds. He also said he knew he would have to run faster than the GPS pace displayed in his watch at CIM to make his time, and said the course for CIM was long. Dude just won’t be convinced HE needs to change not everything and everyone else.
Question though: between the Vaporfly or ZoomFly, does it matter which I try first?
Sorry, just picked this up now. I haven't tried the Zoomfly so I'd defer to JMac's response on that.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Would definitely recommend the Vaporfly, because the Zoomfly is really just the training version of the VF. Put another way, if you love the ZF but hate the VF, you’re going to miss out on a lot of the benefit of a super shoe, whereas loving the VF but hating the ZF is totally fine: you can always train in older VFs or other shoes.
Having said that, one could race in the ZF. I think RP used to race in them back in the day when you couldn’t find a pair of VF on sale (or frankly, outright find at all without going on EBay and paying a premium). But I think given the sales we’ve been speaking about, I see no reason not to spend up on the VF as the price differential between the two is now a lot more reasonable. The ZF is much better for training not only for the “baseball donut” effect but it also seems much more durable, as the foam is a lot more sturdy and doesn’t collapse in the way the VF does.
I DID use the zoom fly first, and the vapor fly second. There IS a difference. At the time the Vaporfly 4% were the hot ticket item, and the zoom fly was the cheap version. Plastic plate, not the same foam, and slightly different laces. Pretty sure I ran sub-3 in them. I didn’t want to spend the money for Vapors. They were $250 and everything else was around $120. switched to the Vaporfly for 2021. also ran sub-3 in them. My justification was my uncle gave me money ‘to see what you could do when you got the best stuff available.’ So free.
i trained for marathon pace in both. The weirdest thing I remember was, on my standard 4 mile loop, planting my foot and taking a hard right hand turn (because cars) felt like I was going to slide off the shoe, and I built up some confidence I wasn’t going to slide off the shoe over time.
the white and orange VF I own have some BITCHIN’ laces. They’re like sharks teeth and lock in when you tie them. Just make sure you don’t tie these shoes too tight. I think I did it once or twice. The tongue is NOT padded like regular trainers.
Dorothea
So this Vaporfly Thread is really making me want to get a pair. It's too soon for the 19th, though, and I'm not going to do my 40-miler in them, so I think I'll save it as a birthday present for myself in April.
Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.
Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.
Vaporfly PSA, check to see if you have a Nike Clearance Store any where nearby. This is not the same as a factory outlet and thete are only 30 in rhe US. My local clearance store has $99 Vaporflies.
Sign up for an account on the Nike site and you get a 10% birthday discount! Mine’s in April too, so I’d have time to get a new pair before Eugene.