Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 572 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

     

    I actually had a few other tings I wanted to reply to, but that will have to wait. In the meantime, it's the night before the night before the race, and I am getting a bit anxious. My "A" goal is 6:59:00. After that it's just about finishing the race. I'd also like to visit the podium, but like I said, that's something I can't predict. It's going to be hot and humid here; the start is predicted at a 72F/72 Dew point, By 2pm, which is my goal finish time, it will be around 84 with a 71DP. I have my hydration plan, but I know I'm going to sweat a lot. Bringing a change of clothes in case I'll need the mental boost of dry clothes after the half-way point. I already posted in the Ultra group, but in case there's someone who looks here first, any last minute advice? What's something you really wish you had known beforehand?

     

    Having never done an ultra, I can't really speak to what I wish I had known beforehand.  However, I do know what it's like to run in those conditions, since that's a pretty typical summer day where I am - and I know the same applies to you.  I would never start a marathon in those conditions, but I keep thinking that an ultra may be more feasible, because of the slower pace and opportunity for rest breaks to rehydrate fully, change socks, etc.

     

    Since you already know how to run in that weather (though you may not be acclimated to it right now), I'd rely on the experience that you already have.  I would definitely try to err on the side of hydration and electrolytes rather than speed early on - once you get dehydrated on a hot summer day, it's about impossible to save the race.

     

    I also think that in those conditions, sun versus shade is a huge factor.  If there is a choice between a slightly longer shaded route or a shorter route in the sun, I'd go with the longer shaded route.

     

    Again, I've never run an ultra, so take the above with a massive grain of salt (which you'll need anyways).

     

    Good luck!

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    flavio80


    Intl. correspondent

      RP - thanks again. Yeah, it seems to me that when I suck out the air it still leaves a bit of air in there.
      It might be a design issue, or most likely, a dumb user issue.

       

      DK - Best of luck on your race. I've raced a 50k in those conditions, all I can say is you will need electrolytes too, if you just drink water it gets bad over time.

       

      Mikkey - Thanks again for the info, what was that, did they forbid safety pins? How do you get around that? Did you have to wear one of those bib holder things?

      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

      Up next: no idea

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      mmerkle


        Sorry guys I've been slammed lately.

         

        Fishy That's what I figured, that the other half PR was soft in some way. Also no retiring allowed.

         

        dktrotter I wish I had advice but I have not yet done an ultra. My advice is toe the line with confidence. You worked hard and sacrificed a lot of time. Now it's time for it to pay off. I wish you the best of luck and weather (whatever that's worth) tomorrow!

         

        RP Lol next time a dog runs after me I'm going to keep going. That's pretty funny. I suppose everyone on here feels this way about where they live but I swear Fairfax VA is the dog capital of the United States. I'd venture to say 7/10 people out walking have at least one dog. I was once on a trail where a guy was walking SIX at once. SIX DOGS, on a SMALL trail.

         

        Andy I imagine if your wife just sticks with it for a bit longer then her legs will catch up. I'd like to note that my issue with cycling is exactly the same. My quads crap out well before my heart rate gets much above the easy pace zone. But this starts to get a little better when I'm consistent about it, which is usually when I'm cross training due to injury or just off time between cycles.

        wcrunner2


        Are we there, yet?

          When dogs chase me I dont even slow down.  Fuck the dog owner who walks their dog off leash and thinks I’m going to change my life for them.  I’ll take that dog two miles if they want and hope the dog never finds their way home because the owner didn’t find it necessary to leash their animal. Typically it is

          “oh they’ll go with you.  They would love it.”

          hope they’re ready for two miles.  I’m not bringing them back.

          dog gets called more frantically.

           

          Long ago I had just moved to a new town for a new job, so I wasn't familiar with the area. I got confused a one traffic circle (that's another story), so my run took me farther away from the town center than expected. That's where I was approached by a loose Golden Retriever, very friendly but I couldn't get him to go away.  So like you I kept running and the dog followed. For. Five. Miles. All the way back to town. I stopped at my boss's house, being the only person I knew yet and i hadn't had time to have a phone installed. We called the number on the dog's tag to have the owner come and picked her up. Poor dog was soaked because it had started raining during the run. Later found out that the dog was already miles from home when I met her.

           2024 Races:

                03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                05/11 - D3 50K
                05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

           

           

               

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            dumping and running....sounds like my workout. OOF it was a rough final 3 miles. Stomach wasn't happy. I'd eaten lunch about an hour before, and I think too much caffeine was the culpret of discomfort. During mile 7 I wanted to bail at the end of 8 until I reminded myself I bailed on a full 9 last week because of similar issues, and how I've been here and continued on only to improve on the second half of the mile. I felt 'BETTER' during the final mile and it was probably 50% from pushing through the discomfort. I absolutely started walking when the run was done.

            Heart rate data is probably wrong, but maybe the heart works less when the stomach/GI tract isn't happy. It became all about finishing, pushing through to the finish, and imagining the final two miles of race day. Yeah I was 10-15 seconds slower on the last workout mile, and if it happens on race day I'll accept it. I had bad thoughts of doubt creep in. "Usually I'm ready for this workout. This isn't ever THAT hard. Maybe I peaked. How am I going to run hills when I can't run flats? This isn't an 'I'm exhausted' thing because the legs feel fine. I ain't got time to improve on this." I have two more of these, and perhaps I should do them in some super shoes to see if MAYBE reducing caffeine would help the stomach be happier.

            This pain felt different than last week. I tried changing the breathing to something slower and it worked for a little while but the pain just wouldn't go waay.

             

             

            WC OH SNAP! I think some dog owners put an address, but that only works when you know streets, or have an easy way to look it up. I'm sure pay phones were just as hard to find then as they are now.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Dogs are going to be NOTHING compared to the crowds of walkers.

               

              CLICK ME!

              A new place to play pickleball is coming to New York City. Fourteen pickleball courts will take over Wollman Rink in Central Park.

              It's being opened by CityPickle, the first indoor pickleball club in the city. The courts will be open April 7 through Oct. 9 from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. daily. Court fees will be between $80-120 an hour.

               

              JMac might have to become and even LATER evening runner in the summer.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              flavio80


              Intl. correspondent

                RP - How are you able to run, let alone run a workout 1 hour after lunch? That's insane!!!!! How do you not puke your guts out? You must have the stomach of a chicken 🤯

                 

                Lord Commander - Please put me up for the Valencia Marathon on December 3rd. Target is 2:58:59 for no reason whatsoever other than ego.

                Just like with MMerkle I have unfinished business with the marathon, having been defeated 4 times in a row.

                1 - 4h42 in Porto Alegre April 2010, finished in serious pain.

                2 - 4h49 in Buenos Aires October 2010, finished in serious pain, got passed by 2 ladies who were walking, around km 39. This was my lowest point.

                3 - 3h43 in Porto Alegre December 2014, finished in serious pain, at least I didn't have to walk, just slowed to a crawl.

                4 - 3h05 in Bregenz 2021, had run 1h22 for the half in February, thought I'd finally reached a point where sub 3 was possible, instead hit the wall 3 miles from the finish line, finished in serious pain, took over 2 months to recover from the initial destruction, probably 6 months to return to regular training, never got close to the mileage I was running before that race even now 18 months later.

                 

                5th time is the charm is what they say 🏆

                 

                After stating that I would never again run a marathon, then backtracking a few weeks later to "Only after I manage to run 80 miles per week for 6 months and have run again a half of 1h22", I'm now backtracking once again.

                I'm gonna go with:

                This time:

                1 - I won't forget to buy shoes then have to run in Hokas that injure my back

                2 - I won't take vaccines 10 days before the race which depleted me quite a lot due to the 48h of fever

                3 - I won't slack on strength training to try and run more mileage (One of the gravest mistakes IMHO)

                4 - I won't travel to Bogota where it's 2500m (8200feet) above sea level, for 2 weeks to derail my training even further.

                5 - I will run a marathon in very similar weather to where I live so I should not be shocked by much colder than expected weather on race day.

                6 - I will not try to increase mileage and do marathon training at the same time.

                7 - I will not have a very long marathon cycle so I burn out

                8 - I will be smart and run a conservative pace instead of going out with a bang.

                 

                Ok, I'll very likely not follow #8, sigh, I guess it's just not in my genes. I will often run mile pace on the first rep of a 5k pace workout 😂

                Maybe they have a sub 3 pacer on race day? Then this might be salvageable after all.

                 

                The plan is to use the summer months to increase mileage as much as possible, then train for a half in early October, then jump on marathon specific training from Oct to Dec.

                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                Up next: no idea

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  flavio ummmm I train this way? I assumed eating an hour or two before the run would help everything settle, and eliminate the possibility the pains last week were due to hunger. I can tell you I've done a few after eating some tomato soup and learned it isn't a good idea. Tuesday's run I'd eaten a grilled cheese sandwich probably 30 or 40 minutes before doing 3x2 mile 10 seconds faster than goal marathon pace....so luck? Maybe over eating is my problem, or my body processed it quickly and wanted it out. Maybe it was still digesting.

                  and yeah...why the fuck are you running a marathon? Last one you SWORE to never do one again. All the training and then a bad day towards the end. Wasn't it really hot that day, or do you think it was just pacing?

                   

                  What is your mileage GOAL for marathon training this time?

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 53.37 

                  5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                  flavio80


                  Intl. correspondent

                    and yeah...why the fuck are you running a marathon? Last one you SWORE to never do one again. All the training and then a bad day towards the end. Wasn't it really hot that day, or do you think it was just pacing?

                     

                    What is your mileage GOAL for marathon training this time?

                     

                    No, it was not hot, it was ideal temps on race day. I think it was a combination of multiple factors, most of which are included in the list I posted.

                    I cannot have a mileage goal as that's completely out of my control. I will however try to reach the peak well before marathon training and then roughly maintain it on that last specific marathon block, so that I don't change too many variables at once.

                    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                    Up next: no idea

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    Fishyone


                       RP- For me the absolute worst thing is to run too close to a meal.  I'm talking even 2 hours after eating my body does NOT like running.  I would rather run fasted for 12 hours that run an hour after lunch.....it would be a recipe for a shitty run with all kinds of GI issues.  On days I double I limit my lunch to a clear soup and give myself at least 3 hours.  Caffeine NEVER bothers me on runs 

                       

                      dumping and running....sounds like my workout. OOF it was a rough final 3 miles. Stomach wasn't happy. I'd eaten lunch about an hour before, and I think too much caffeine was the culpret of discomfort. During mile 7 I wanted to bail at the end of 8 until I reminded myself I bailed on a full 9 last week because of similar issues, and how I've been here and continued on only to improve on the second half of the mile. I felt 'BETTER' during the final mile and it was probably 50% from pushing through the discomfort. I absolutely started walking when the run was done.

                      Heart rate data is probably wrong, but maybe the heart works less when the stomach/GI tract isn't happy. It became all about finishing, pushing through to the finish, and imagining the final two miles of race day. Yeah I was 10-15 seconds slower on the last workout mile, and if it happens on race day I'll accept it. I had bad thoughts of doubt creep in. "Usually I'm ready for this workout. This isn't ever THAT hard. Maybe I peaked. How am I going to run hills when I can't run flats? This isn't an 'I'm exhausted' thing because the legs feel fine. I ain't got time to improve on this." I have two more of these, and perhaps I should do them in some super shoes to see if MAYBE reducing caffeine would help the stomach be happier.

                      This pain felt different than last week. I tried changing the breathing to something slower and it worked for a little while but the pain just wouldn't go waay.

                       

                      5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                      wcrunner2


                      Are we there, yet?

                        RP - How are you able to run, let alone run a workout 1 hour after lunch? That's insane!!!!! How do you not puke your guts out? You must have the stomach of a chicken 🤯

                         

                         

                        You can't be an ultra runner and not be able to run immediately after eating.

                         

                        It takes some adjustment and avoiding anything intense, but when you expect to be eating a lot during a race, eating before running seems almost normal.  It's common for me to finish lunch, change into running gear and immediately head out for my afternoon run as long as I don't have intervals or a hard tempo run planned. For those I wait an hour.

                         2024 Races:

                              03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                              05/11 - D3 50K
                              05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                              06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                         

                         

                             

                        CommanderKeen


                        Cobra Commander Keen

                          Flavio - Board updated. I'd be shocked if Valencia didn't have a 3 hour pacer.
                          While two weren't run for time, it took me nine marathons to break 3.

                          5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                           

                          Upcoming Races:

                           

                           

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            Flavio - This makes me happy.  Your turnaround is even longer than mine and I think mine was a bigger disaster!  Looks like you've got lots of lessons (I absolutely refuse to use the "word" learnings) to take out of previous experiences.  I think sub 3 is well within your wheelhouse.  I've heard pretty good things about Valencia too (mainly from the Inside Running podcast).

                             

                            I very much look forward to following your progress this year.

                             

                            So 3 weeks after a mild cold stopped me doing my tune up half, I've got similar symptoms to when I got Covid last year.  No blocked nose, but a little light headed and coughing up gunk.  If it develops like last year, I won't be doing a marathon in 3 weeks and if that happens, I'm going to be extremely disappointed (understating this).  For now I feel okay, and I'll try my run today but drop it to easy only if I have to.

                            5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                             

                            2024 Races:

                            Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                            Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                            Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                            Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                            dktrotter


                            Dorothea

                              Can't write a lot as the long work week ain't over yet. But wanted to thank you each for the tips, tricks, and good luck wishes! I took a sharpie to a piece of cardboard that my 50 million Gus were packed in, wrote some of the biggest ones, and I'm going to prop it by my drop-bag.

                              Surprisingly, weather is the least of my worries. I've had lots of practice with what and how much to drink. More worried about food and the sheer miles, but I'll let you know how it goes!

                              Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                              Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  

                                 RP- For me the absolute worst thing is to run too close to a meal.  I'm talking even 2 hours after eating my body does NOT like running.  I would rather run fasted for 12 hours that run an hour after lunch.....it would be a recipe for a shitty run with all kinds of GI issues.  On days I double I limit my lunch to a clear soup and give myself at least 3 hours.  Caffeine NEVER bothers me on runs 

                                 

                                 

                                I have 16 oz of coffee before every run. Food only before a race or LR, usually at least 2 hrs in advance. The rare occasions I don't run in the morning, it's right before lunch or right before dinner. I can't imagine running immediately after eating; only one of many reasons I never want to run an ultra.

                                Dave