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Can Downhill Running Improve Leg Speed? (Read 1220 times)

    Big grin Does running down hill repeats at a slight decline improve running economy and speed for running on a flat course?
      Yes, I believe doing down hill strides improves running economy.


      SMART Approach

        Yes they do. However, running fast on a flat surface also helps improve running economy and speed.

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          Big grin Does running down hill repeats at a slight decline improve running economy and speed for running on a flat course?
          You'll be landing alot harder on your feet; now this will be, High Impact.

          "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius


          #2867

            You'll be landing alot harder on your feet; now this will be, High Impact.
            Not if you have good running form. Or if you run on trails or grass. I think that Bowerman said it best - "I'll start having them run hill repeats when they put hills on the track." If your race includes any incline or decline, train with it. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

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            Scout7


              It will help improve turnover.
              mikeymike


                Define: leg speed.

                Runners run

                  Downhill running, if done correctly, is one of the best ways to improve fine speed as well as one of the best eccentric exercises for legs. Anyone tried to run down the stairs as fast as you can and legs almost got tanggled up? You'll get the feeling of legs moving, or at least trying to move, faster than you actually can... A part of developing speed is a nerve thing; downhill striding, as we call it, can develop a very fine leg speed. If done correctly, you will get "a feeling" right underneath your belly-button. That's where those hip flexors are that brings your legs to the front and downhill striding really forces these muscles to work overload. Make sure you lean into the hill and try to bring your legs forward as fast as you can (in other words, forget stride length). Also, if you do it a lot of downhill running, you'll get this soreness in your thighs--much like the day after the marathon. These are the muscle groups that take poundings. Downhill running really strengthen these muscles to take poundings--which I believe would actually helps your marathoning as well.
                  I think that Bowerman said it best - "I'll start having them run hill repeats when they put hills on the track." If your race includes any incline or decline, train with it. Otherwise, don't worry about it.
                  I'm sorry but above comment about Bill Bowerman cannot be more wrong. If you know Bill at all, or talk to someone who knew Bill, you will quickly realize he quite often didn't mean what he actually said--he's a tricky guy, a fun-loving kind of character (depending on how you look at it), he'd make you think--much like Lydiard or Cerutty were. It's either you take whatever they said in face-value and think nothing of it, or actually stop and think and go find out yourself. How else, just think about it, he had Kenny Moore, a marathon runner, run 30 miles (remember another of his well-publicized quote "Why do you need to run more than 5001m when all you're competing is 5000m?"); or Wade Bell, an 800m runner (!) run 20 miles on weekend up and down the Butte? Of course, they all did some sort of hill training up and down the Butte anyways! Last time I visited Bill was in 1997 at his house with Dick Brown--in fact, I have a tape somewhere from that visit. He did say something about "You don't need to do over-distance work..." Then turned around and said of this young kid who had a great speed in 400m and who lived up in the mountain and ran up and down 8 miles a day to go to school and said he had the potential to become the first sub-4 minute miler in history... On the way back home, we were laughing about that fact.
                    Yes, downhill running will improve your leg turnover rate, but so will running uphill and doing speed work on flat ground without the risk of tearing up your legs. Running downhill is very hard on your legs because your feet are striking the ground heel first and with much higher force than when running on level ground. I wouldn't suggest going out of your way to run downhill except for the experience of learning how to it properly. Tom
                      I agree with much of what Nobby said (but I don't do downhills on stairs Wink). They can definitely help your leg turnover creating an overspeed situation. You might want to build up to them a bit, but I did notice you said "slight decline", so that'll work. You might find some strength training (squats, lunges) helps to reduce some of the soreness from the eccentric contractions. Be careful to use good form - keep body perpendicular to slope and don't overstride. Landing should be somewhat toward mid- to fore-foot. High heeled shoes that are common these days can make it a challenge to do this on steeper slopes as the heel gets in the way. Also, if you run on steeper hills and heel strike, you may find yourself on your butt as legs slide out from underneath you. (my local hills tend to be stern taskmasters about form) Mid- to fore-foot landing leaves you ready to adjust direction instantly (thinking more of trail here). http://www.skyrunner.com/story/ups_downs.htm (Side note: I was amused a month or so ago when I was snowshoe running - no walk breaks - a 2-mi section of rolling hill trail and remembering how much that hurt the first time I ran / walked / crawled it, probably 5 yr earlier, since I was heel striking still on downhills. Didn't have the foot / ankle strength yet for the more fore-foot landing.) You might try to find a trail or grassy spot that's easier on impact for starters, rather than asphalt. Not sure what your running conditions are, but a good place to adjust to downhill running and form is on snow-covered hilly trails. If you wipe out on the descent, just roll in the snow, and get up and keep moving. I tend to use the uphills for building leg strength for forward propulsion and downhills for leg speed. Just what works for me. Since I do run hilly trail races, those are specific for my races. There's some overlap in these 2 articles, but I think they're worthwhile reading since they explain what happens in the "pain" of downhills, as well as the body adaptations. http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/quadriceps.html http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0009.htm Good luck.
                      "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                        Yes, downhill running will improve your leg turnover rate, but so will running uphill and doing speed work on flat ground without the risk of tearing up your legs. Running downhill is very hard on your legs because your feet are striking the ground heel first and with much higher force than when running on level ground. I wouldn't suggest going out of your way to run downhill except for the experience of learning how to it properly. Tom
                        If you're landing hard on your heel, chances are that the hill is too steep to stride down fast in cotrol; or your form is not quite right. I don't necessarily think running uphill will improve leg turnover; but if anything, I don't think you should try. When going uphill, it is a resistance work (or at least it is to me) and the slower you go up, the more resistance you'll feel. Ideal technique for hill resistance work is with the image of "spending an extra half a second (in actuality, it's probably less than that...) on each step"--grip the ground with your foot. Race horses do this and it's called (I'm not quite sure in correct English translation but...) "stomping". Once again, I don't think we can talk about training benefit in terms of just one element. There are multiple training benefits. What does "interval" training do for you? Lydiard said it's an anaerobic training and not speed training. Everybody scratchs their head... It IS speed training in a sense your speed WILL improve somewhat because you're running faster and working on anaerobic pathway. But, in his eyes, you are not focusing on "speed". You even improve your aerobic capacity doing intervals! So people might say, "Why do a long run? We can improve our aerobic capacity doing intervals too..." So would you prescribe a program without ANY long run simply because we CAN work on our aerobic capacity in other form of training? Downhill training DOES have its place and it works more than just leg turnover. Assuming there's no mechanical issue, I will never not recommend downhill running.
                          I agree with much of what Nobby said (but I don't do downhills on stairs Wink).
                          AKTrail: We do not use stairs for leg-turnover work. That was just an example of how that feels. Too much chance to get tangled up and fall, trying to do it on steps! ;o)
                            AKTrail: We do not use stairs for leg-turnover work. That was just an example of how that feels. Too much chance to get tangled up and fall, trying to do it on steps! ;o)
                            Thanks for clarification, Nobby. That didn't seem quite in character for your normal approach.Smile BTW, I also agree with your comment about uphill running will usually be slower cadence, esp. if going uphill for 1 hr or more. Definitely not the fear-factor level leg speed one gets from bombing down a hill when intentionally doing overspeed work (or accidentally misjudging steepness) .Wink
                            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                              I don't necessarily think running uphill will improve leg turnover; but if anything, I don't think you should try. When going uphill, it is a resistance work (or at least it is to me) and the slower you go up, the more resistance you'll feel. Ideal technique for hill resistance work is with the image of "spending an extra half a second (in actuality, it's probably less than that...) on each step"--grip the ground with your foot. Race horses do this and it's called (I'm not quite sure in correct English translation but...) "stomping".
                              Hill work is a common and excellent form of speed work. It greatly strengthens the leg muscles which increases stride length (speed) and it does so with little stress on the legs. I will recommend hill running as speed work before any other method, especially in the case of new runners who lack the base to safely use other more intense forms of speed work. Stronger legs also reduces the amount of time your feet spend on the ground before push off, again adding to speed. Downhill running even with good form is incredibly hard on the legs. That's why the Boston Marathon is so challenging even for elite runners. I've included a few links on the benefits of hill running. The only mention of downhill running in any of them is to ease muscle soreness with eccentric training, not as a form of speed work. Hill Training Eight Hill Workouts for Blazing Run Speed Uphill Battle Tom
                              Scout7


                                Downhill running isn't "speed" work in the traditional sense. It's cadence work. We're talking a 2-3% grade, and run at as high a cadence as you can manage. In doing this, you tend to land softer, and chances are you're probably running a little slower than if you ran at your normal stride down the hill. The focus is on increased turnover, not speed. Increasing turnover will increase speed, however.
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