2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 444 times)

Brew: Hoping you get some better conditions for workouts soon. I agree trying to get on the treadmill would be good, even if just to log miles. Maybe you could prop the back of the treadmill up and do some "downhill" running. If you try this, please document.

Kcam: Nice 5K! Nice progression from a few weeks ago.

Rovatti: Despite the lumpy citrus nature of your knee, do you feel like you're progressing?

Had a minuscule week of training last week. We had significant rain and legit flooding. One of our neighborhood entrances was underwater. My neighbor had a river running through his laundry room, cars underwater, etc. Decided I'd just take it easy. 18.5 miles for the week, a 10ish and 8ish mile easy run with some strides.

Had a good workout yesterday. 3 easy, 4 x 1600, 3 easy. 1:00 rest. Reps were 6:05, 6:02, 5:59, 5:54. Had planned on 4x200 as well, but R hamstring did not like the first 200, which was in 38s, so I backed off and headed for the cooldown. Just nice to know I can still do mile repeats and dip under 6:00.

 

I do that. When I hit Prev Week it tells me "Aw Snap". Maybe I need to post it on Sunday.

 

SO upset. 25+MPH winds for the next two days. So I get to wait until Thursday to run again. Going into a M paced workout with now FOUR weeks of practically no running. NOT marathon training for a PR and BQ attempt (combined) sucks. I also didn't sleep well.

I am confused - why can't you run in winds like that?  Concern about falling branches?

Ace- nice speed for not having been training much.

 I guess if I knew how to run by feel instead of what the watch says the workout is supposed to be I wouldn’t have to worry about what other people (myself included) thought of my workout and how well it predicts marathon or 5K fitness.

I feel like we spoke about this in your last cycle as a huge part of your growth as a runner. Getting out there in varying conditions and learning to run by feel is SO crucial for success. Tempo, or T, pace is a perfect example. I never look at my watch anymore for that, only to check if I'm going too fast. My T pace can vary by up to 40 seconds per mile depending on conditions or how my body is feeling. On one hand, if it's 85 degrees with 75 degree dew points, it's going to be brutally slow. If it's mid 40s and it's the first rep of cruise intervals, it will be near the top of my pace range and I will focus on staying controlled. The same is true with Easy pace. For a recovery run in the summer, my pace can be around 8:45. For an easy run on fresh legs in perfect conditions, I get down to 7:00 to 7:15.

 

I feel like we spoke about this in your last cycle as a huge part of your growth as a runner. Getting out there in varying conditions and learning to run by feel is SO crucial for success. Tempo, or T, pace is a perfect example. I never look at my watch anymore for that, only to check if I'm going too fast. My T pace can vary by up to 40 seconds per mile depending on conditions or how my body is feeling. On one hand, if it's 85 degrees with 75 degree dew points, it's going to be brutally slow. If it's mid 40s and it's the first rep of cruise intervals, it will be near the top of my pace range and I will focus on staying controlled. The same is true with Easy pace. For a recovery run in the summer, my pace can be around 8:45. For an easy run on fresh legs in perfect conditions, I get down to 7:00 to 7:15.

Just adding two points onto this excellent post:

1)  we tend to assume as runners that hitting a specific pace is essential, and the run didn't accomplish what we needed it to if we didn't hit that pace.  That's BS.  The body knows and responds to effort, not pace.

2) I'm of the belief that if you would race in a set of weather conditions, then you should train in those conditions.  If you would DNS a race because of the weather, then it's OK to bail on the workout.  Under that reasoning, I'll do workouts in high winds (avoiding locations where branches may fall), or down to 10 degrees or up to 75 with high humidity.  (I will bail if there's ice or lightning, because I would DNS in those conditions).

I remember people at Boston 2018 saying "every time it was like this, I just ran on the treadmill" - and all I could think was "sucks for you."

 

Just adding two points onto this excellent post:

 

1)  we tend to assume as runners that hitting a specific pace is essential, and the run didn't accomplish what we needed it to if we didn't hit that pace.  That's BS.  The body knows and responds to effort, not pace.

 

2) I'm of the belief that if you would race in a set of weather conditions, then you should train in those conditions.  If you would DNS a race because of the weather, then it's OK to bail on the workout.  Under that reasoning, I'll do workouts in high winds (avoiding locations where branches may fall), or down to 10 degrees or up to 75 with high humidity.  (I will bail if there's ice or lightning, because I would DNS in those conditions).

I remember people at Boston 2018 saying "every time it was like this, I just ran on the treadmill" - and all I could think was "sucks for you."

1.) guilty. Oddly, the last interval was cut short which should mean the workout didn't accomplish what it needed. For some unexplainable reason I accept 2.5 miles at pace more than 3 at "not pace" and I can't say why. My body hurt after. Deep breathing was sore until I fell asleep. Heart rate hit numbers I haven't seen in a LONG time (177-180). Possibly from a lack of ANY breeze. Possibly from having not trained in such conditions (indoor treadmill at 1% incline and 70-80F). I highly doubt I'd hit 180 BPM on the roads in the wind. I think I get close to that only in 5ks.

2.) If my marathon has a 25 MPH headwind I'm not going for a PR. I can't pull that off. I CAN do a long run in it and I'd run as such. It's rained at CIM and rained at Chicago. Rain wasn't a problem. The wind at CIM hasn't hit double digits from my memory of the two times I've done it, but if CIM has 15-25 mph headwinds for the whole course I just don't have enough confidence in my abilities to pull out a 3:05 or faster marathon. Training in bad weather (rain, wind, snow) includes easier runs which is how I'd run a marathon with that condition. Same if it was icy which was a large factor in the past few weeks of missed workouts. Today calls for more 20 mph winds and I'll be doing an easy run. I don't know if I'd try my 8 mile GMP run in the same wind, but maybe for the facts you and jmac point out...race conditions. I guess I'll find out Thursday.

3.) I half thought you were joking when you asked why I wasn't doing speed work outside.

Boston 2018 is a BIG factor I decide to run in the strong winds, except for speed work. I guess since Boston is the end goal, I'd be willing to give up a PR there on a shitty running day and doing long runs in cold, wind, rain, or ice would be part of training because everyone says the weather can change from cold and rainy to hot and windy. Getting in is the work, if Boston is a shit year when I finally run it I'll take that over never having run it.

jmac Yeah I remember the dew point plus temperature and anything under 120 being "go out as normal" which was pretty much every time I ran. I guess what you and dwave are saying is to adjust accordingly and maybe look at HR since "numbers matter" to me. Run by P.E. (Perceived Effort) which for speed workout would be "that point where it starts to suck for the second half of it" most of the time.

Oddly, this was the last speed workout. Now it's 1.5-3 mile repeats...which will probably ALL be outside just because I can do them close to home. Regardless of weather (minus ice/snow/bullshit) after this discussion. I got home about 3 hours later than usual using the treadmill. NeRP passed OUT in the car and slept all night while DW had the house to herself (cleaned and cooked), but if I just sucked it up and did the workouts at home I'd have been home at least an hour earlier. At least grandparents got play time...and wife got quiet time.

EDIT: I often ask a friend "what are you going to do on race day" as he trains for his first. I'm not going to DNS the race. I have my own personal opinion of taking a DNS due to weather (lightening kinda gets a pass....sort of) of "If there is a possibility you'll DNS just don't sign up. Someone else would start and finish." but I'd adjust goals. I guess this is just a long winded post saying "if you'd adjust goals on race day and run by effort, go train by effort." I probably would have surprised myself.

 

2.) If my marathon has a 25 MPH headwind I'm not going for a PR. I can't pull that off.

Nobody can, unless their PR is very weak.  At the same time, it's rare to get a headwind the whole time.  More often, it's a mix of head/cross/tail wind, and it's useful to know how to work through that (i.e. how much to push versus backing off during the headwind).

As you may recall, I set a major half-marathon PR during a race with 25 MPH winds - went out VERY EASY into the headwind, and then hammered with the tailwind.  Because I knew how to work within the wind.

Isn't Brew doing the Mt. Charleston log flume?  If there was a race I could see having wind in your face the whole way, it would be that one...

I would say just living in those conditions would go a long way towards acclimation, though? I mean I've gotten hella soft since I switched coasts and I was mister bad weather back east.  And I balked at running in the rain here on Monday, opting for the treadmill.  Although, a little of that was the darkness factor which is much more significant cause i'm not in a city anymore.