2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 211 times)

Brewing Runner


Cat Disliker

    brew: use this link

     

    http://rwol-weekly.appspot.com/weekly/2017-01-02?maxhr=0&thisweek=Current+Week

     

    I do that. When I hit Prev Week it tells me "Aw Snap". Maybe I need to post it on Sunday.

     

    SO upset. 25+MPH winds for the next two days. So I get to wait until Thursday to run again. Going into a M paced workout with now FOUR weeks of practically no running. NOT marathon training for a PR and BQ attempt (combined) sucks. I also didn't sleep well.

    1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

    5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

    10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

    Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

    Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

    Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

     

    2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

    AceHarris


      Brew: Hoping you get some better conditions for workouts soon. I agree trying to get on the treadmill would be good, even if just to log miles. Maybe you could prop the back of the treadmill up and do some "downhill" running. If you try this, please document.

       

      Kcam: Nice 5K! Nice progression from a few weeks ago.

       

      Rovatti: Despite the lumpy citrus nature of your knee, do you feel like you're progressing?

       

      Had a minuscule week of training last week. We had significant rain and legit flooding. One of our neighborhood entrances was underwater. My neighbor had a river running through his laundry room, cars underwater, etc. Decided I'd just take it easy. 18.5 miles for the week, a 10ish and 8ish mile easy run with some strides.

       

      Had a good workout yesterday. 3 easy, 4 x 1600, 3 easy. 1:00 rest. Reps were 6:05, 6:02, 5:59, 5:54. Had planned on 4x200 as well, but R hamstring did not like the first 200, which was in 38s, so I backed off and headed for the cooldown. Just nice to know I can still do mile repeats and dip under 6:00.

      Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 38:25 (2017, course was 6.1), HM: 1:25:16 (2018), M: 2:57:18 (2018)

      Brewing Runner


      Cat Disliker

        Brew: Hoping you get some better conditions for workouts soon. I agree trying to get on the treadmill would be good, even if just to log miles. Maybe you could prop the back of the treadmill up and do some "downhill" running. If you try this, please document.

         

        The current plan is for some mile repeats at something in the general vacinity of your pace (6:20) on the treadmill at my MIL's house after work. I'm so pissed about not running for three weeks I'm either going to quit the BQ attempt or suck it up and run inside.  Nice workout too. I saw that and couldn't believe you still had some sub 6 in there after two months off.

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

        Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

         

        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

           

          I do that. When I hit Prev Week it tells me "Aw Snap". Maybe I need to post it on Sunday.

           

          SO upset. 25+MPH winds for the next two days. So I get to wait until Thursday to run again. Going into a M paced workout with now FOUR weeks of practically no running. NOT marathon training for a PR and BQ attempt (combined) sucks. I also didn't sleep well.

           

          I am confused - why can't you run in winds like that?  Concern about falling branches?

           

          Ace- nice speed for not having been training much.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          Brewing Runner


          Cat Disliker

             

            I am confused - why can't you run in winds like that?  Concern about falling branches?

             

            Ace- nice speed for not having been training much.

             

            No branches in the desert according to most people who don’t live here. Mostly I’m afraid of comments about the pace differences on Strava. More afraid of Mother Nature trying to trip me again.  I guess if I knew how to run by feel instead of what the watch says the workout is supposed to be I wouldn’t have to worry about what other people (myself included) thought of my workout and how well it predicts marathon or 5K fitness.

            Mostly its the headwind, and I don’t know what the point of doing mile repeats at 5K pace/effort would be. Mental toughness? Back workout? Preparation to finish slower than goal pace but still finish not feeling beat to sheet?

            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

            Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

            Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

             

            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

            JMac11


               I guess if I knew how to run by feel instead of what the watch says the workout is supposed to be I wouldn’t have to worry about what other people (myself included) thought of my workout and how well it predicts marathon or 5K fitness.

               

              I feel like we spoke about this in your last cycle as a huge part of your growth as a runner. Getting out there in varying conditions and learning to run by feel is SO crucial for success. Tempo, or T, pace is a perfect example. I never look at my watch anymore for that, only to check if I'm going too fast. My T pace can vary by up to 40 seconds per mile depending on conditions or how my body is feeling. On one hand, if it's 85 degrees with 75 degree dew points, it's going to be brutally slow. If it's mid 40s and it's the first rep of cruise intervals, it will be near the top of my pace range and I will focus on staying controlled. The same is true with Easy pace. For a recovery run in the summer, my pace can be around 8:45. For an easy run on fresh legs in perfect conditions, I get down to 7:00 to 7:15.

              5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

               

              Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

              CommanderKeen


              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                 

                I feel like we spoke about this in your last cycle as a huge part of your growth as a runner. Getting out there in varying conditions and learning to run by feel is SO crucial for success. Tempo, or T, pace is a perfect example. I never look at my watch anymore for that, only to check if I'm going too fast. My T pace can vary by up to 40 seconds per mile depending on conditions or how my body is feeling. On one hand, if it's 85 degrees with 75 degree dew points, it's going to be brutally slow. If it's mid 40s and it's the first rep of cruise intervals, it will be near the top of my pace range and I will focus on staying controlled. The same is true with Easy pace. For a recovery run in the summer, my pace can be around 8:45. For an easy run on fresh legs in perfect conditions, I get down to 7:00 to 7:15.

                 

                You misspelled "Kiwi Point".

                All of this is spot-on.

                 

                Ace - Bummer about the flooding. I'm guessing your place didn't suffer any damage.

                 

                 

                I've been spending way too much time on the treadmill lately. DD2 was sick almost all of last week and I wanted to stay close, and we've had a couple days (like today) with freezing rain overnight and frankly I didn't want to risk the roads.

                Overall I'm feeling pretty good about running again. I'm feeling good about getting out there 6 days/wk and my legs are getting used to the stress again, so no soreness after an easy 10k run.

                5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                Upcoming Long Run:

                OKC Memorial Marathon 4/28

                Upcoming Races:

                Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                Wurst Race Half 10/5

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                   

                  I feel like we spoke about this in your last cycle as a huge part of your growth as a runner. Getting out there in varying conditions and learning to run by feel is SO crucial for success. Tempo, or T, pace is a perfect example. I never look at my watch anymore for that, only to check if I'm going too fast. My T pace can vary by up to 40 seconds per mile depending on conditions or how my body is feeling. On one hand, if it's 85 degrees with 75 degree dew points, it's going to be brutally slow. If it's mid 40s and it's the first rep of cruise intervals, it will be near the top of my pace range and I will focus on staying controlled. The same is true with Easy pace. For a recovery run in the summer, my pace can be around 8:45. For an easy run on fresh legs in perfect conditions, I get down to 7:00 to 7:15.

                   

                  Just adding two points onto this excellent post:

                   

                  1)  we tend to assume as runners that hitting a specific pace is essential, and the run didn't accomplish what we needed it to if we didn't hit that pace.  That's BS.  The body knows and responds to effort, not pace.

                   

                  2) I'm of the belief that if you would race in a set of weather conditions, then you should train in those conditions.  If you would DNS a race because of the weather, then it's OK to bail on the workout.  Under that reasoning, I'll do workouts in high winds (avoiding locations where branches may fall), or down to 10 degrees or up to 75 with high humidity.  (I will bail if there's ice or lightning, because I would DNS in those conditions).

                  I remember people at Boston 2018 saying "every time it was like this, I just ran on the treadmill" - and all I could think was "sucks for you."

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                  Speed Surplus

                     

                    Just adding two points onto this excellent post:

                     

                    1)  we tend to assume as runners that hitting a specific pace is essential, and the run didn't accomplish what we needed it to if we didn't hit that pace.  That's BS.  The body knows and responds to effort, not pace.

                     

                    2) I'm of the belief that if you would race in a set of weather conditions, then you should train in those conditions.  If you would DNS a race because of the weather, then it's OK to bail on the workout.  Under that reasoning, I'll do workouts in high winds (avoiding locations where branches may fall), or down to 10 degrees or up to 75 with high humidity.  (I will bail if there's ice or lightning, because I would DNS in those conditions).

                    I remember people at Boston 2018 saying "every time it was like this, I just ran on the treadmill" - and all I could think was "sucks for you."

                     

                    Just a small counterpoint - I'm happy to race in horrific conditions, and have done so a number of times. I can get motivated to do it on race day, but that doesn't mean I want to train in miserable conditions frequently. Looks disgusting out? I'm perfectly happy to run an hour on the treadmill (always at 1% incline).

                     

                    I'm more likely to brave excessively hot temperatures than cold/wet ones, though, because I'm so often commuting exposed (motorcycle/bicycle) in cold/wet conditions, and there's only so much one can take.

                    5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                    Brewing Runner


                    Cat Disliker

                       

                      Just adding two points onto this excellent post:

                       

                      1)  we tend to assume as runners that hitting a specific pace is essential, and the run didn't accomplish what we needed it to if we didn't hit that pace.  That's BS.  The body knows and responds to effort, not pace.

                       

                      2) I'm of the belief that if you would race in a set of weather conditions, then you should train in those conditions.  If you would DNS a race because of the weather, then it's OK to bail on the workout.  Under that reasoning, I'll do workouts in high winds (avoiding locations where branches may fall), or down to 10 degrees or up to 75 with high humidity.  (I will bail if there's ice or lightning, because I would DNS in those conditions).

                      I remember people at Boston 2018 saying "every time it was like this, I just ran on the treadmill" - and all I could think was "sucks for you."

                       

                      1.) guilty. Oddly, the last interval was cut short which should mean the workout didn't accomplish what it needed. For some unexplainable reason I accept 2.5 miles at pace more than 3 at "not pace" and I can't say why. My body hurt after. Deep breathing was sore until I fell asleep. Heart rate hit numbers I haven't seen in a LONG time (177-180). Possibly from a lack of ANY breeze. Possibly from having not trained in such conditions (indoor treadmill at 1% incline and 70-80F). I highly doubt I'd hit 180 BPM on the roads in the wind. I think I get close to that only in 5ks.

                       

                      2.) If my marathon has a 25 MPH headwind I'm not going for a PR. I can't pull that off. I CAN do a long run in it and I'd run as such. It's rained at CIM and rained at Chicago. Rain wasn't a problem. The wind at CIM hasn't hit double digits from my memory of the two times I've done it, but if CIM has 15-25 mph headwinds for the whole course I just don't have enough confidence in my abilities to pull out a 3:05 or faster marathon. Training in bad weather (rain, wind, snow) includes easier runs which is how I'd run a marathon with that condition. Same if it was icy which was a large factor in the past few weeks of missed workouts. Today calls for more 20 mph winds and I'll be doing an easy run. I don't know if I'd try my 8 mile GMP run in the same wind, but maybe for the facts you and jmac point out...race conditions. I guess I'll find out Thursday.

                       

                      3.) I half thought you were joking when you asked why I wasn't doing speed work outside.

                       

                      Boston 2018 is a BIG factor I decide to run in the strong winds, except for speed work. I guess since Boston is the end goal, I'd be willing to give up a PR there on a shitty running day and doing long runs in cold, wind, rain, or ice would be part of training because everyone says the weather can change from cold and rainy to hot and windy. Getting in is the work, if Boston is a shit year when I finally run it I'll take that over never having run it.

                       

                      jmac Yeah I remember the dew point plus temperature and anything under 120 being "go out as normal" which was pretty much every time I ran. I guess what you and dwave are saying is to adjust accordingly and maybe look at HR since "numbers matter" to me. Run by P.E. (Perceived Effort) which for speed workout would be "that point where it starts to suck for the second half of it" most of the time.

                       

                      Oddly, this was the last speed workout. Now it's 1.5-3 mile repeats...which will probably ALL be outside just because I can do them close to home. Regardless of weather (minus ice/snow/bullshit) after this discussion. I got home about 3 hours later than usual using the treadmill. NeRP passed OUT in the car and slept all night while DW had the house to herself (cleaned and cooked), but if I just sucked it up and did the workouts at home I'd have been home at least an hour earlier. At least grandparents got play time...and wife got quiet time.

                       

                      EDIT: I often ask a friend "what are you going to do on race day" as he trains for his first. I'm not going to DNS the race. I have my own personal opinion of taking a DNS due to weather (lightening kinda gets a pass....sort of) of "If there is a possibility you'll DNS just don't sign up. Someone else would start and finish." but I'd adjust goals. I guess this is just a long winded post saying "if you'd adjust goals on race day and run by effort, go train by effort." I probably would have surprised myself.

                      1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                      5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                      10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                      Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

                      Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

                      Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                       

                      2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        1.) guilty. Oddly, the last interval was cut short which should mean the workout didn't accomplish what it needed. For some unexplainable reason I accept 2.5 miles at pace more than 3 at "not pace" and I can't say why. My body hurt after. Deep breathing was sore until I fell asleep. Heart rate hit numbers I haven't seen in a LONG time (177-180). Possibly from a lack of ANY breeze. Possibly from having not trained in such conditions (indoor treadmill at 1% incline and 70-80F). I highly doubt I'd hit 180 BPM on the roads in the wind. I think I get close to that only in 5ks.

                         

                        I think we all have something like that - some version of "if I didn't do the workout the way it should have looked on paper, then I got nothing out of it."

                         

                        I found myself in that trap this morning.  Was supposed to do 16x400m at around 10K pace (1:34 per 400) with 30 second floats.  Made it through 11, and then GI tract went explody, and I had to step off the track for a 2:30 bathroom break (kept the watch running).  Jumped back on the track with the ambition of doing another 10x400m (the idea being that the extra reps would compensate for the break in the middle), but made it another 6 before everything cramped up again, at which point I pulled the plug.

                         

                        I was beating myself up over the useless wasted workout, when the truth is that it was still a perfectly good workout that accomplished most if not all of what I needed to do this morning.  Workouts are not binary pass/fail.

                         

                        (as for the bathroom issues, I'm not too worried about them longterm - I went to a business luncheon on Monday, and I'm pretty sure that they lied to me and some of the food had lactose or soy in it - my GI system has been off ever since.  If you're wondering why I'm so religious about relying on either Chipotle or food from home the last few days before a race, there's why.)

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                          2.) If my marathon has a 25 MPH headwind I'm not going for a PR. I can't pull that off.

                           

                          Nobody can, unless their PR is very weak.  At the same time, it's rare to get a headwind the whole time.  More often, it's a mix of head/cross/tail wind, and it's useful to know how to work through that (i.e. how much to push versus backing off during the headwind).

                          As you may recall, I set a major half-marathon PR during a race with 25 MPH winds - went out VERY EASY into the headwind, and then hammered with the tailwind.  Because I knew how to work within the wind.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          JMac11


                             

                            Just a small counterpoint - I'm happy to race in horrific conditions, and have done so a number of times. I can get motivated to do it on race day, but that doesn't mean I want to train in miserable conditions frequently. Looks disgusting out? I'm perfectly happy to run an hour on the treadmill (always at 1% incline).

                             

                            I'm more likely to brave excessively hot temperatures than cold/wet ones, though, because I'm so often commuting exposed (motorcycle/bicycle) in cold/wet conditions, and there's only so much one can take.

                             

                            It depends what "horrific" conditions means. For one, you need to get out there in the heat and humidity, as it is the poor man's altitude training. It will make you a much better runner in 65 degree weather if you're constantly training in 75+.

                             

                            For cold weather, especially rain and cold, you need to know how to dress properly and also acclimate. Although people don't think about it, there is such thing as cold acclimation. If you always get out there when it's 25 mph and windy, racing in the 30's will be a lot easier than if you never got out there in the colder temps. I found that my first few runs in the 30s this fall were miserable and I had trouble breathing, but now I find the 30s to be perfect.

                             

                            Now, on to wind. There are very few races I've run which are just one directional wind, even if the course is mainly going one direction. You need to learn how to run in sidewinds, headwinds, tailwinds, etc. This one is the most bizzare to avoid.

                             

                            Remember, we aren't just a heart with 2 legs running a race. The mental aspect of learning to deal with terrible conditions is a huge part of running and avoiding those conditions in training is silly. Even if you think you can get "motivated" to do it in races, you'll never need to find that motivation if you do it in training. By this logic, nobody should ever train at altitude because you don't race at altitude, yet case after case shows that those that do outperform those that only train at sea level.

                            5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                            pepperjack


                            pie man

                              Isn't Brew doing the Mt. Charleston log flume?  If there was a race I could see having wind in your face the whole way, it would be that one...

                               

                              I would say just living in those conditions would go a long way towards acclimation, though? I mean I've gotten hella soft since I switched coasts and I was mister bad weather back east.  And I balked at running in the rain here on Monday, opting for the treadmill.  Although, a little of that was the darkness factor which is much more significant cause i'm not in a city anymore.

                              1:28:36 (recent)

                              rlk_117


                              Resident Millennial

                                brew with the awkward strava comments! sorry, I had to delete that one :P   yes Devon and I are acquaintances. We waved to each other from across the park road this morning. It was nice.

                                _________________________________________________
                                mile, 5:38 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
                                2019: short distance stuff, summer break, train for CIM?