2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 168 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Brew - I absolutely can and do run on gravel roads, and enjoy it. This "gravel" is more like fat thumb to duck egg sized rocks. Bleh. I feel that the bigger issue is that our acting mayor (running for election soon) has been bragging that he's improving the roads, which have gone from smooth, drive-able at any speed dirt to gravel that is so rough you can't drive on it above 10-15 mph. And doing so at cost of $50k+ a mile.


    To my eyes it definitely looks like you did well on that workout. You'll probably need to check pace during the race to make sure you don't overcook things. A running buddy of mine did that this past fall at a similar race. He should have been targeting ~7 min/mi but opened the first half posting 6:45's. He slowed from there and was posting 9 min miles to close.
    Your legs may take a couple days to feel the effects of this as well, but it's good that you aren't feeling anything now.

    5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

    Upcoming Long Runs:

    Chisholm Trail Marathon 3/24

    OKC Memorial Marathon 4/28

    Upcoming Races:

    Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

    Wurst Race Half 10/5

    Brewing Runner


    Cat Disliker

      keen: Those are some cross training (read proprioceptor) workouts for ya. The workout was a VERY GOOD example of how easy it is to go out WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY too fast with the "I feel great" mentality of a race just to pay for it later. Way too much (mentally) riding on this to mess up with such a rookie mistake. It's also going to be an eye opener for RB if he does this run too quick. I KNOW he is targeting sub 4 for a debut marathon but I'd rather have him finish without having any other goal, sign up for CIM and crush a good marathon on a good course, but if he goes sub 4 I'll just tell him "Imagine what you could do with just a little more training at CIM" HAHAHAHA (insert evil emoji)

       

      Right now I'd take pains in my legs over pains in my ass (work) because at least ONE OF THEM I can avoid. Interview scheduled for next week (I think) and a friend/coworker said they dropped my name and in fancy words may have let it be known the position is more in my style. Even with out of office travel 4 hours a way. At least I could get into trail running...sort of.

       

      dw good luck racing. Goal of 84-85 minutes, correct?

      1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

      5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

      10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

      Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

      Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

      Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

       

      2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

      AceHarris


        Just dropping this week's training by.

         

        M: Easy 8 (8:02) and some strides

        Th: 9.4 miles - 3.75 easy, 6 x 800 on the greenway with 3:00 rest (3:00, 2:53, 2:52, 2:53, 2:54, 2:53), 2 miles easy. Was hoping to go a little faster and maybe would have on the track. It was a windy day. I'll take it.

        Sat: 5.6 easy miles (8:08)

        Sun: 14.0 (7:57) - Practice pacing for the upcoming Knoxville marathon, of which I'm pacing half for the 3:30 group.

         

        Total: 37 miles. Didn't do my mid week yoga or strength workout. We had family in town and I didn't get around to it. I need to get back to my single leg exercises and glute PT. I can feel my weak spots on my longer runs.

        Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 38:25 (2017, course was 6.1), HM: 1:25:16 (2018), M: 2:57:18 (2018)


        Speed Surplus

          My week:

           

          Add another one to the pile...

           

          19:49
          19:18
          19:15
          19:14
          19:46
          19:17
          19:03
          19:37
          19:20
          19:49

          19:17*

           

          At least I'm trending in the right direction again. St Pat's race report:

           

          Very easy and casual morning leading up to the race - it seems like the race's numbers are dwindling somewhat, as it's been pretty easy to get into a bathroom before the start and not very crowded in the corral until the very last second. So, I took care of all the assorted businesses, hopped in, and took off.

           

          The first mile begins with a downhill, but I remember blowing up a bit early last year, so I held back somewhat. Good thing, too, because I forgot about the subtle uphill that starts just past the first corner. I went through the first mile in 6:06 which is a tiny bit slower than I wanted, but on pace for 18:59, so I tried to keep it up.

           

          Unfortunately, the second mile has a grindy hill. So I knew I'd slow a little bit up the hill - if I tried to keep 6:06 pace up, I'd definitely end up fading. The plan was to just run a solid effort up the hill and then turn on the gas at the turnaround (back downhill), and hope for the best. The second mile ticked off at 6:16, so I'd lost 10 seconds and it was a little bit deflating in terms of shooting for 18:59.

           

          In the third mile, two fire trucks pulled out in front of me - several runners were waved over to the side, including me, but we didn't have to stop. It might have cost me 1-2 seconds by running a sub-optimal line and also slowing somewhat to see what the hell was going on. But it also distracted me from a small side ache forming, so maybe it was a net benefit.

           

          The end of the course was slightly different this year - instead of a steep but short hill, we were routed back across in front of the space needle and through a few twists and turns. I appreciate the flattening and think it's slightly better overall, even if there are a few more turns than I'd ideally like. I don't normally check my watch in between mile splits during a race, but I did glance once when I was around 2.6 miles. The math was fuzzy at that point but I was sort of trying to figure out if I had a chance at 18:59 by running a killer final 800 meters. In any case, I basically didn't have it. I ran hard through the line but never tapped into my top finishing speed as by that point I knew I was already over 19 - and I don't want to use that gear unless it's really worth it.

           

          The clock just ticked over 19:16 as I crossed, and my garmin stopped at 19:16.4, but I never showed up in the official results for some reason. They had a camera at the finish and I have my Strava data, so I contacted the race organizer to see if they could salvage my chip time. We'll see. I did (would have) gotten third in my age group.

           

          Update: They added me! But also gave me 19:17.

           

           

           

          <tfoot> </tfoot>
          Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link
          Mon 6.8 9:23 1:03 Easy miles plus strides 142 (77%) 214 strava
          Wed 5.3 8:07 0:43 5 + strides. Just trying to keep the hay in the barn 140 (76%) 149 strava
          Thu 4.8 8:14 0:39 Getting anxious to race 140 (76%) 127 strava
          Sun 0.7 8:43 0:05 To train 132 (72%) 51 strava
          Sun 1.0 9:05 0:09 WU 138 (75%) 41 strava
          Sun 3.1 6:12 0:19 St Pats 5k 147 (80%) 118 strava
          Sun 1.1 8:15 0:09 Back to train 143 (78%) 31 strava
            22.8 8:19 3:09     731

          5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

          pepperjack


          pie man

            Opted not to race.  Did a sort of workout Saturday instead.  Went chasing a strava segment up a nice climb and then some 200s on the track.    Wound up at 26.5 miles for the week.  But yesterday I went on an adventure up in the forest that made up for the lack of miles.  I wanted to bag a peak that was a former lookout on the edge of some nice wilderness.  But the road started to get unsuitable for my hatchback about 5 miles up.  So I parked it and set out on foot.  It was mixed snow and then just all snow.  I gave up on the initial peak and decided to try for something sorta along the way that also was a former lookout.  It showed maybe half a mile off the main road but it was 500 feet of climb.  I actually was enjoying the snow for a bit as it made climbing a little different.  But it got so much deeper past 5000.  And the spots that were clear of brush actually were worse cause it wouldn’t hold my weight.  But I was motivated and kept on going.  I though there was an old road at the top that would have made for an easier route down (opted to go up directly cause it was extra mileage on the road, going down wouldn’t be so noticeable I thought)

             

            i had had the misfortune of a watch screen failure on my gps.  It still works but I can’t telll anything, so for the first part it wasn’t recording at all.  I flicked it over just in case it wanted to work and it vibrated into life somewhere on the mountainside,  so at least I had that.  Eventually I turned it off and did the phone app for the last bit back down on the road just to be sure I had something (and to know my start elevation).  Sure made for a messy Strava, though.

             

            The way down was not the clear road I thought it would be.  It was mostly the same as going up.  Although I did reach what was basically a driveway and could then take that down.  But it was shin high snow depth so that wasn’t exactly easy going.  I did get down to to better going eventually.  I’d say worth it for some terrific views. All the 6k peaks were still covered with a nice layer of snow.  The lake was down pretty full, maybe not for so much longer (pg&e doesn’t want it and they might take it down to let the salmon swim up again).  And I got to visit our elk down on the flat on my way back to civilization.

            1:28:36 (recent)

            Brewing Runner


            Cat Disliker

              Apparently this works now so everyone can see how creative I am if you don't follow me on strava.

              I'm not sure why I missed Tuesday and Wednesday's runs. Friday I drove 4.5 hours with NeRP after work, and Sunday was the drive back. Sleep patterns were off and visiting family kind of took priority over a run. I'm glad I got the house cleaned at 4am Friday morning before leaving. Friday didn't happen due to work (I don't get along with my boss still) and no RB being around. I probably would have gone out at 7:00 pace and sped up from there. One of my lowest weeks to date. Mabye Tuesday was due to snow/cold/weather sucks mentality.

               

              question/advice seeing This week I plan another run just like Thursday's. Today is scheduled 3x2 mile around 6:50 pace (I think) and I'm mixed on doing them downhill or on the flat. Originally I was thinking of downhill for more experience/pain there but now I'm thinking flats with a TRX workout after to get back to full body work. I might actually need to keep up this core strength I'm building with side planks and hamstring exercises. The rest of training is Tuesday repeats and Thursday long runs at GMP. Should I just keep doing the downhill Thursday run and forget the 10 mile tempo (13 total) the book says? Should I start doing Tuesday and thursday workouts on downhills? OR should I just stick with flat runs like the plan calls for? Sort of a WWYD kind of situation. The long runs rotate from 10-16 miles but I'm a little more focused on the 55-60 mpw goal I've softly tried to stick to.

               

              My week:

              Weekly Summary
              Monday, Mar 11, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 17, 2019

              <tfoot> </tfoot>
              Day Miles Pace Description Link
              Mon 8.0 8:22 That time I admitted I am in need of downhill strava
              Thu 8.3 6:32 That time I feel like a Jamaican bobsled teammate. strava
              Sat 12.0 10:44 That time someone had too many drinks last night. strava
                28.3 8:51    

              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

              Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

              Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

              Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

               

              2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

              CommanderKeen


              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                SClever - Nice RR. I'm pretty sure you have more sub-20s than I have 5ks at all. Nicely done.


                Brew - I like the idea of the bobsled runs (and course-specific work in general). I haven't been at this nearly as long as most other here, so you may wait for other input.


                Had my biggest week since probably early November last week, in both volume and intensity. I wanted a solid workout for Thursday as a last big stimulus before my marathon/long run this Sunday. The 1600 was something I added to the plan just before dong the workout, but I really liked it. Challenging, but doable. I may get a bit crazy and add in 5x 400m or something to the end of this workout next time.
                Weather is finally turning really nice around here.

                 

                Monday, Mar 11, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 17, 2019

                <tfoot> </tfoot>
                Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
                Mon 9.6 7:33 7x 1,000m @ ~103-105% FTPr 149 (76%) strava
                Mon 2.5 8:19 Not a real loop - NYC 143 (73%) strava
                Tue 8.1 8:10 Treadmill Feature: Goblin Slayer - NYC 134 (68%) strava
                Tue 3.2 7:47 Runch with a side of strides- NYC 134 (68%) strava
                Wed 8.1 8:09 Treadmill feature - GitS: Arise - London 139 (71%) strava
                Wed 2.5 8:16 I could really go for some fish and chips - London 126 (64%) strava
                Thu 11.3 7:06 1x 1600, 2x 1200, 3x 1000, 4x 800 @ ~105% FTPr- Watopia 151 (77%) strava
                Fri 8.1 8:19 1 rabbit & 7 strides for 7 deer 141 (72%) strava
                Fri 3.3 8:07 Out to Runch - Richmond 127 (65%) strava
                Sat 14.5 8:26 1 meadow lark in the middle of the road 133 (68%) strava
                  71.2 7:57

                5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                Upcoming Long Runs:

                Chisholm Trail Marathon 3/24

                OKC Memorial Marathon 4/28

                Upcoming Races:

                Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                Wurst Race Half 10/5

                Brewing Runner


                Cat Disliker


                  Weather is finally turning really nice around here. 

                  wait 5 minutes, or a weekend. I'm not sure which one applies to the flyover states.

                  1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                  5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                  10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                  Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

                  Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

                  Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                   

                  2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

                  CommanderKeen


                  Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                    wait 5 minutes, or a weekend. I'm not sure which one applies to the flyover states.

                     

                    Usually both.  It's supposed to start raining here in the next couple hours, and it should rain/thunderstorm all this weekend as well. So take your pick!

                    5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                    Upcoming Long Runs:

                    Chisholm Trail Marathon 3/24

                    OKC Memorial Marathon 4/28

                    Upcoming Races:

                    Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                    Wurst Race Half 10/5

                    Brewing Runner


                    Cat Disliker

                       

                      Usually both.  It's supposed to start raining here in the next couple hours, and it should rain/thunderstorm all this weekend as well. So take your pick!

                       

                      If I'm picking treadmill or a raincoat I'll take a rain coat. That treadmill bullsheeeeeeeeeet isn't worth it. We're getting the same weather.

                       

                      Currently leaning towards 3x2 mile with 800m recovery. The threshold/marathon effort run on the flat sounds a little more productive to push the endurance is probably a better focus than ONLY downhills. The last 5+ miles is flatish so I think it should be a balance of downhills and endurance. Plus some people in the sub 3 thread speak highly of the 3x2 mile workout. Some of them even do 4 repeats of 2 miles.

                      1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                      5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                      10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                      Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

                      Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

                      Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                       

                      2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                         

                        If I'm picking treadmill or a raincoat I'll take a rain coat. That treadmill bullsheeeeeeeeeet isn't worth it. We're getting the same weather.

                         

                        Currently leaning towards 3x2 mile with 800m recovery. The threshold/marathon effort run on the flat sounds a little more productive to push the endurance is probably a better focus than ONLY downhills. The last 5+ miles is flatish so I think it should be a balance of downhills and endurance. Plus some people in the sub 3 thread speak highly of the 3x2 mile workout. Some of them even do 4 repeats of 2 miles.

                         

                        We both know that New Yawka hasn't done any of those lately, and still just crushed 4+ 5k's in a row at well beyond my 5k pace.

                        5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                        Upcoming Long Runs:

                        Chisholm Trail Marathon 3/24

                        OKC Memorial Marathon 4/28

                        Upcoming Races:

                        Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                        Wurst Race Half 10/5

                           

                          If I'm picking treadmill or a raincoat I'll take a rain coat. That treadmill bullsheeeeeeeeeet isn't worth it. We're getting the same weather.

                           

                          Currently leaning towards 3x2 mile with 800m recovery. The threshold/marathon effort run on the flat sounds a little more productive to push the endurance is probably a better focus than ONLY downhills. The last 5+ miles is flatish so I think it should be a balance of downhills and endurance. Plus some people in the sub 3 thread speak highly of the 3x2 mile workout. Some of them even do 4 repeats of 2 miles.

                           

                          My 2 cents:

                          I prefer to do my big workouts on flat ground, but I'm certainly no expert as I've never done an extreme DH marathon.

                          I am also a BIG fan of the 3X2 workout.  I may do one tomorrow after work (biting my nails as I type this!).  When I was in my best shape my bread and butter workouts were 6X1600 and 3X3200; both followed by a 4X200 with 200 jog.  I think the best bang for your buck on those is to run them at CURRENT threshold pace and try to shorten the recoveries.  For 6X1600 I do a 200m jog recovery and for 3X3200 I do a 400m jog recovery.  No stopping after the interval, just roll right into the recovery and then roll into the next interval after the recovery jog.

                          If you're feeling good enough to extend the number of intervals (to, say, 4X3200) I think it's better to either (in order of preference) 1) jog the recoveries a little faster 2) make the recoveries a little shorter 3) run the intervals a little faster but keep the interval mileage the same.

                          PRs

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            A This week I plan another run just like Thursday's. Today is scheduled 3x2 mile around 6:50 pace (I think) and I'm mixed on doing them downhill or on the flat. Originally I was thinking of downhill for more experience/pain there but now I'm thinking flats with a TRX workout after to get back to full body work. I might actually need to keep up this core strength I'm building with side planks and hamstring exercises. The rest of training is Tuesday repeats and Thursday long runs at GMP. Should I just keep doing the downhill Thursday run and forget the 10 mile tempo (13 total) the book says? Should I start doing Tuesday and thursday workouts on downhills? OR should I just stick with flat runs like the plan calls for? Sort of a WWYD kind of situation. The long runs rotate from 10-16 miles but I'm a little more focused on the 55-60 mpw goal I've softly tried to stick to.

                            So....I like a mix. I would definitely do stuff faster than MP on flat terrain - the purpose of that stuff is to build your fitness. I like alternating MP stuff on a downhill and flat - even if you run by effort, you're not getting the same aerobic stimulus running downhill as you are on flat. OTOH, as previously discussed, you need that downhill too.

                             

                            What I really like is to do a run at MP that starts with severall downhill miles, and then flattens out - you hold the MP effort for the downhill and continue it on the flat. The last few miles get surprisingly hard, but are good prep for any flat late-in-race parts of your marathon.

                             

                            Separately, here's my week:

                            39.5 miles, plus 14 "miles" poolrunning and 1000 yards recovery swimming.

                            M: yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running.

                            T: 10.5 miles, including 6x800 in 3:07, 3:06, 3:03, 3:00, 3:01, 2:53. Also light injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                            W: DIY yoga and 6.5 miles very easy (8:53) plus drills and hill sprints.

                            Th: light upper body weights/core, DIY yoga, and 6 "miles" pool-running.

                            F: 7 miles, including 1600m in 6:15 to get the legs sharp.

                            Sa: just DIY yoga

                            Su: 2.5 mile warm-up, then half-marathon in 1:24:45. Later 500 yards recovery swimming.

                             

                            I had a lousy race on Sunday - race report here: http://wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com/2019/03/race-report-shamrock-half-marathon.html

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                            Speed Surplus

                              Sorry to hear about your race, DW. Gutting it out like that is never fun, but at least you ran a decent time.

                              5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                              Brewing Runner


                              Cat Disliker

                                So....I like a mix. I would definitely do stuff faster than MP on flat terrain - the purpose of that stuff is to build your fitness. I like alternating MP stuff on a downhill and flat - even if you run by effort, you're not getting the same aerobic stimulus running downhill as you are on flat. OTOH, as previously discussed, you need that downhill too.

                                 

                                What I really like is to do a run at MP that starts with severall downhill miles, and then flattens out - you hold the MP effort for the downhill and continue it on the flat. The last few miles get surprisingly hard, but are good prep for any flat late-in-race parts of your marathon.

                                 

                                GET OUT OF MY HEAD! It is good to know my logic isn't flawed. All these things were going on in my head when I was going back and forth on downhill vs flat. The flats will work different muscles AND probably lean on the aerobic system more. The downhills and flat finish is going to simulate race day, but ONLY doing that isn't the BEST option. Plus skipping a 9-10 mile run at a 6:50 pace is probably good mentally and physically The mix is going to be the best option. Marathon training is mentally exhausting.

                                Again, bummer on the race. I was really hoping you'd pull it off. Hope you find the cause of your stomach problems. Getting your stomach scooped out really sounds painful and I've never had anything comparable done, except throwing up.

                                 

                                EDIT: Oh, I almost would have liked to read the thoughts of your bathroom break as an intro. I'm imagining something like..."If I'm out of here in the next 30 seconds I can still break 84 minutes." Sort of the Columbo version.

                                Could the GI issue be some kind of sickness that just decided to hit you that day? Sort of a 24 hour flu that was amplified by racing? Anything off earlier that week for stomach or food issues possibly contributing to it?

                                 

                                 

                                My 2 cents:

                                I prefer to do my big workouts on flat ground, but I'm certainly no expert as I've never done an extreme DH marathon.

                                I am also a BIG fan of the 3X2 workout. No stopping after the interval, just roll right into the recovery and then roll into the next interval after the recovery jog.

                                 

                                If you're feeling good enough to extend the number of intervals (to, say, 4X3200) I think it's better to either (in order of preference) 1) jog the recoveries a little faster 2) make the recoveries a little shorter 3) run the intervals a little faster but keep the interval mileage the same.

                                 

                                I haven't done an extreme downhill marathon either. HAHAHA! Flat and rolling are the only two types I've done. After doing some runs in the wind/rain/February weather I learned how it helps the mental game along with Jmac and darkwave pointing out running by effort because the body doesn't know it is windy. Just that it is hard running. The 3x3200 around M pace is pretty good and I always jog the recoveries and roll into the next workout. I THOUGHT I had one more in me but time, and the last mile I'd just run, left me feeling good about the workout. I aimed for a 10:00 pace for recovery jogging and half mile. Hanson's say if you're too tired to jog the recovery you're working too hard, if you're going faster than the pace you could do pushups for each second faster you are, and if you give their method an honest shot you'll be surprised. I'd say go for the workout. Rain and wind don't really make much difference than running in 70F. Just understanding the point of the 3x3200 (aerobic system) was key to me sticking with it. Plus the weather always seems to be different when I'm running. The forecast is ALWAYS wrong. LOL!

                                 

                                keen I think that New Yawlkah is going to focus on easy miles and ignore his Uncle Jack for a week or two...then he will go back to 7:40 pace easy runs.

                                 

                                https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3477819860

                                check out that cadence during the fast run portions. 

                                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                                Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

                                Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

                                Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                                 

                                2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon