2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 249 times)

ThisIsNotSam


Jogger

    the weekly, before I forget:

    M - 45min run

    T - 45min run

    W - SRD

    T - 45min run

    F - 45min on the bike

    S - 45min run

    S - 1h20m run

    total of 5h and change. highlight was Thursday's run -- 8:35 pace on a route I do multiple times a week. It has been over a year since I ran this specific route this fast. So yay me.

    Mile 5:24 3k 11:01 5k 19:01 10k 38:34 hm 1:26:57 fm 3:02:33

    pepperjack


    pie man

       

      Well I was going to post this same thing, but DW has it perfectly. I always see these training groups in Central Park, where people are doing workouts with 5+ in a group. There is NO way all of those people have the same fitness, so what happens is that one person is training correctly, and everyone else slower is training too hard. The only time I could see the benefit of running in a group is when you would bail on a workout for "mental" reasons rather than physical reasons, e.g. you just don't feel like doing the last rep when you probably could if you could build up the willpower. Also, sometimes groups force you to get out the door, which can be the hardest part of any run.

       

       

      Why is it only all 5 people running the fastest person’s pace?  It can’t be a fast guy or two taking it slightly easier to have company? Then the middle people are training correctly and only maybe one guy pushing too hard.  Maybe they really are that many similarly fast people, they do seem to find each other one way or another.  My group would attract just about every ex-college runner that showed up in Baltimore that wanted to get quality track workouts because it was where they found people to keep up.

       

      We have this saying about TNT, it is simply ‘It works.’  People who show up and do the track workouts get faster.

      1:28:36 (recent)

      pepperjack


      pie man

        another 40 this week.  Nice run up in the hills between lake and Mendocino.  Was looking looking for something that had gain but wasn’t a freaking mountian and actually found it.  The part downhill into hopland was this perfect gentle downslope that went quite far.  I almost called it ‘That time I found the perfect training road for brew.’

         

        did trailwork for the lake Sonoma 50 yesterday.   We took an actual boat to the spots that needed cleanup.  I am now official spoiled for all future trail work.

        1:28:36 (recent)

        Brewing Runner


        Cat Disliker

           

           

          Why is it only all 5 people running the fastest person’s pace?  It can’t be a fast guy or two taking it slightly easier to have company? Then the middle people are training correctly and only maybe one guy pushing too hard.  Maybe they really are that many similarly fast people, they do seem to find each other one way or another.  My group would attract just about every ex-college runner that showed up in Baltimore that wanted to get quality track workouts because it was where they found people to keep up.

           

          We have this saying about TNT, it is simply ‘It works.’  People who show up and do the track workouts get faster.

           

          I can tell you there is a group locally with Wednesday meetings. They post the workout online. All are fast (sub 3 or faster) and all run at THEIR PACE. They also do easy runs together. I've been on a track when they're working out once or twice and they each run their own pace. It (proper training) is probably a reason they're usually at the front of the race and the work together (team work) for everyone to succeed.

          I think the tendency is for people to run too hard as dw mentioned and hope the workout = race result (i.e. if I do repeats at X pace I'll do XX;XX race) just going off what other people have experienced. I think even rlk had mentioned talking to a coach who kind of agreed part of the group she trained with totally mismanaged a workout.

          I haven't made it to one of their workouts because I have too much going on after work and it's easier to do the workout solo. Plus I do mine on a different day. Maybe I'd have more running friends (I'd probably get faster sooner truthfuly) if I went with them.

          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

          Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

          Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

          Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

          *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

           

          2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

           

          ilanarama


          Pace Prophet

            Sam, that's great!  I'm also seeing my easy paces dropping to numbers I haven't seen in over a year.  Still nowhere near my best shape, and of course, you know I'm skeptical of "easy pace" as a measure of fitness anyway, but it's always nice to see progress measured by whatever yardstick.

            PRs: 10 1:12:59 (4/2014) 13.1 1:35:55 (10/2013) 26.2 3:23:31 (12/2013)

            bloggy stuff at http://ilanarama.dreamwidth.org

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

               

               

              We have this saying about TNT, it is simply ‘It works.’  People who show up and do the track workouts get faster.

               

              Of course, that could be because people who show up regularly and do track workouts get faster.  Smile

               

              As I noted, I've seen group training work really well, and I've also seen it derail into group injury.   And I've seen team workouts get really ugly when a toxic personality gets involved.

               

              [Had a former teammate with some significant emotional issues who was kicked off the team.  Said person would throw the odd elbow during workouts, and also continually criticize teammates AS we were running the workouts.  Training was really unpleasant when that person was around, to put it mildly.]

               

              It works best when you have runners who are able to balance doing what is best for them with helping others - for example, when I do a 5 mile tempo, I may have people who are slightly less fit than I am run with me for the first 3 or 4 miles.  Or I may do 2x3200m, structured so that I run with a friend who is doing a 5 mile tempo.

               

              Good to see Sam and Ilana here!  I don't think improvements in easy pace are totally meaningless.  The concern is just when one places too much weight on them.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                I trained solo for 10 years, then with a club for 5 years.  I can vouch (from personal experience) for both the pros and the cons of group training.

                 

                Cons: I have gone through stretches running tempos 'in 4th gear instead of 3rd" - (to quote dw), in order to keep up with my old training group/friends.  (I had become slower, but they hadn't...).    These workouts became "near-race experiences"... and week after week cause exhaustion (which I think is hormonal).

                 

                Pros: Workouts (and training in general) become easier and more fun/social.  I definitely moved up a level when I joined a club.

                 

                In the balance, though, I would definitely recommend joining a club


                Speed Surplus

                  Sam - That's great to hear! I am a believer in "easy pace fitness." When effortless running gives you a faster pace than you expect, you're getting fit. IMO.

                   

                  Ilana - Same same! Glad to hear it.

                   

                  Club/Not Club - I'm actually really close to pulling the trigger on a Club NW membership so that I can join their Tuesday workouts and Sunday long runs occasionally. The only problem is that they're about as far away as one can get in Seattle. But... there aren't really any options in my area that I'm aware of.

                   

                  My week turned to garbage after a promising start when I got sick. Finally feeling healthy again, though.

                   

                  <tfoot> </tfoot>
                  Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Egain Link
                  Mon 6.4 8:27 0:54 Gimme more of this weather 140 (76%) 216 strava
                  Tue 18.6 3:10 0:59 Fast and pretty 131 (71%) 1026 strava
                  Tue 6.0 9:52 0:59 Bridle loop with Morg 135 (73%) 319 strava
                  Tue 18.6 2:56 0:54 Wow. PRd both uphill and downhill ebike commute without trying hard. Incredible day for bike-run-bike triple! 129 (70%) 774 strava
                  Thu 4.6 8:16 0:37 Sick as a dog but had to get out and shake the legs 139 (76%) 217 strava
                    54.2 4:53 4:25     2552

                  5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                  CommanderKeen


                  Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                    KK - Awesome! I hope all are doing well.


                    Ilana - Always good to see you show up here. I've noticed the quickening runs on Strava. How's everything holding up?

                     

                    SClever - Glad you're feeling better. That's still a pretty good week for getting sick.


                    Group training - I can't really comment on this as I've done exactly zero group workouts. Group LRs are a different thing. The massive groups of people doing their LRs (without a workout involved), or easy runs in general, way too fast certainly is an everywhere thing.


                    Lots of easy runs last week. Ran a marathon at what I originally thought would be a sub-3 attempt as a really long LR instead (no gels/sports drink!). Ran that with two girls who were doing their first half (after only running 3 months), and finished the last mile or so with a guy who was just having a bad day. Plenty of walked water stops (and a couple other walk breaks) in the second half.

                    I saw a TON of Maurten gels being used, and they were at the expo. It was interesting to see more of those being used than GU, even though those were handed out on the course.

                     

                    I tried out a cryo treatment the day after the marathon (thanks Groupon!). It seemed both really cold, yet oddly comfortable (it's a very dry cold). Felt really good afterwards, so I may keep this up after races.

                     

                    I'm growing tired of HRM issues, both wrist-based optical and chest strap. I'm frequently looking down and seeing my HR 20-40 bpm higher than it should be. I don't really do much by HR these days, but I'd still like accurate data. Maybe I need to look into an upper arm optical sensor.

                     

                    DWave's rundown: Overall the course is quite flat. There's a hill from ~mile 2.5-3.3 that's about 60', so not bad at all. Basically flat until mile 8, where there are maybe 4 little rollers to mile 10. After that it's all downhill to flat to the finish. The first 10k you'd be in the sun, but trees on the side of the course will get you a lot of shade from there until ~ mile 11.5.
                    The weather was basically perfect. 45-50* at the start, with a ~5mph crosswind. Maybe 60* by the time I finished. The course primarily runs E/W, and winds are most typically from the N or S this time of year. The race kicked off literally at sunrise, and the sun was coming up directly down the road you're on for the first 10k, so glasses would be very helpful unless the sky is cloudy. At this time of year I wouldn't expect temps to ever be much higher than that in the early mornings, though a late-ish cold front could happen. 
                    Scenery is actually pretty good except for one stretch from ~ mile 11.5 to 12.7, if that matters to you.
                    My biggest criticism would be that the mile markers were all of for the half, and likely so for the full as well. They were marked 1/14, 2/15, etc. The reason for them being off is that they have separate start areas for the full and half, but a single finish line. Both courses are USATF & RRCA certified.
                    There are a couple good hotels within ~1.25 miles of the start/finish, and there's a Chipotle within a couple miles of these as well. Getting to the start was quite easy, they have race day packet pickup, and people were able to find close parking spots right up until race start. The single start corral (per race distance) wasn't crowded, and I didn't see a bunch of people who obviously shouldn't have been toward the front lining up there. 
                    All in all it's definitely a race I'd do again. Depending on timing of other races next spring I'll probably be doing either the full or the half myself.

                     

                    Monday, Mar 18, 2019 thru Sunday, Mar 24, 2019

                    <tfoot> </tfoot>
                    Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
                    Mon 2.5 9:59 My first trail run! 146 (74%) strava
                    Tue 8.1 8:16 2 ducks, 1 hawk, and a great moonset 135 (69%) strava
                    Tue 2.6 7:49 4 runch strides and 1 painted rock 142 (72%) strava
                    Wed 9.5 7:40 Treadmill feature: Akira, plus 4 at M effort - London 140 (71%) strava
                    Wed 3.1 7:52 Hiding the rock I found yesterday 144 (73%) strava
                    Thu 7.5 8:18 1 runner in town 144 (73%) strava
                    Thu 2.6 8:00 Runch 142 (72%) strava
                    Fri 5.3 7:49 Get 'em while they're still dirt 152 (78%) strava
                    Sat 3.8 8:14 Watching a thunderstorm roll by - NYC 135 (69%) strava
                    Sun 1.3 7:56 Stretching the legs a bit 134 (68%) strava
                    Sun 26.4 8:39 Chisholm Trail Marathon 150 (77%) strava
                      72.7 8:18

                    5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                     

                    Upcoming Races:

                    Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                    Wurst Race Half 10/5


                    Speed Surplus

                      "That's still a pretty good week for getting sick."

                       

                      The devil is in the details - 37 miles of that was ebike :P

                      5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                      Brewing Runner


                      Cat Disliker

                        keen maybe send the RD an email asking for marathon specific signs. For a certified course I'd kind of expect SOMETHING for marathoners instead of doubling up the half marathon points. Also, review needs more details of the race.

                         

                        sc How many of those e bike miles did you pedal though? It's all in how you look at the data.

                         

                         

                        3x2 mile tonight. This should be fun. Stupid weather coming in tomorrow and DW's friends decided they wanted her to bring NeRP over after work. Original plan was to run some hills on lunch to make up for not being able to run after work. Back to blocking out the "group" of people around me in this building. I think they're called coworkers but they're probably working way too hard right now. They should focus on my pace. 

                        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                        Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                        Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                        *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                         

                        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                         


                        Speed Surplus

                          "sc How many of those e bike miles did you pedal though? It's all in how you look at the data."

                           

                          I pedaled 100% of the miles - my bike does not have a throttle. It's just...easier and faster pedaling. A low-level aerobic workout.

                          5:27 / 19:03 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                          Brewing Runner


                          Cat Disliker

                            "sc How many of those e bike miles did you pedal though? It's all in how you look at the data."

                             

                            I pedaled 100% of the miles - my bike does not have a throttle. It's just...easier and faster pedaling. A low-level aerobic workout.

                             

                            I was TOTALLY thinking about you last night during my run! SO....for the group runs. I'D THINK you're MORE motivated to workout because you have to commit to the commute across town to get there. It's easy to say "oh it's too far. I'm too busy. blah blah blah" where you're at so getting on the "no excuses. no bullsheet" mentality means you're more committed to the workout. Someone living around the corner could show up but only because it's close. I'm using my kid as part of the excuse for not showing up. Not doing the page of faces to find out workouts or the location or time is another.

                             

                            easier and faster pedaling without a motor....cuz of the hubs right? They kinda assist a little bit right?

                             

                            Apparently all that "don't be a sissy la-la. it's only wind" talk finally sunk in. While I'm out there planning on slowing down with the headwinds but going by feel my body laughed at me. Either the HRM was acting up (probably) or my body just said "watch what we can do to him mentally during this run he thinks is going to do by feel" and threw me for a loop.

                            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                            Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                            Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                            *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                             

                            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                             

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                               

                              Apparently all that "don't be a sissy la-la. it's only wind" talk finally sunk in. While I'm out there planning on slowing down with the headwinds but going by feel my body laughed at me. Either the HRM was acting up (probably) or my body just said "watch what we can do to him mentally during this run he thinks is going to do by feel" and threw me for a loop.

                               

                              I just read this, and I realized I have absolutely NO IDEA how your workout went. (though I guess I could look at Strava or Garmin Connect).

                               

                              CK - thanks for the summary.  Weird mile markers don't bug me per se, since I run off of feel, but they do point to a race not being totally on top of things.

                               

                              Like I said, I'm tempted.  A lot of my decision will likely come down to what week they schedule it for - I'm leaning towards racing Botulism 2020, and I'll need a good half-marathon 3 weeks out from B-day.

                               

                              You will not be surprised to learn that I have dined at the Wichita Chipotle (assuming it's the one pretty close to the airport).

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Brewing Runner


                              Cat Disliker

                                 

                                I just read this, and I realized I have absolutely NO IDEA how your workout went. (though I guess I could look at Strava or Garmin Connect).

                                 

                                It was one of those workouts where finishing it going into race day builds the kind of confidence you want when you’re going to (try to) do big things. Typically Garmin gets more running related than Strava but I’m sure you would know that if you compared the two. It’s much easier to look back over Garmin than Strava and has come in handy...including looking at my first marathon when I didn’t write riveting race recaps.

                                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                                Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                                Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                                Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                                *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                                 

                                2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon