2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 440 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Yeah, you've got it a bit worse than I do regarding weather. We're usually in the low/mid 70's around 5 am, typically with dew points just a couple degrees off the tempt and humidity in the high 90's. It looks like we might get a break in those temps towards the end of next week, which I'm more than a little excited for.
    One of the reasons I'm considering Dallas is that my goal HM is a loop around the same lake the marathon uses (though in the opposite direction). That would at least give me some more course familiarity over most other marathons in that general time period.
    Those are some pretty speedy LRs you have planned, especially in those conditions - not too far off your goal pace. Any particular reason for running them so hard?

    5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

     

    Upcoming Races (?):

    8/29 Moore War 5k

    9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

    9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

    10/4 - Wurst Race Half

    10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

    11/21 - White River Marathon

     

    Wing


    Joggaholic

      I got a training plan from my running group’s coach and those are the numbers that came out on the spreadsheet. I think those paces are doable for me in the winter but not now. I actually like the plan for being close to goal pace because it builds familiarity and confidence, if only I could keep up with it.

      berylrunner


      Rick

        Big 0 for me.  Decided on complete rest for my knee injury.  My bad luck streak continues for the St. George marathon.   This time before even getting to the starting line.  At this point, racing it is out.  Still going to try to run it. Test run today was ok.

         

        2-15-20  Sun Marathon (Utah)

        4-18-20  Zion 100 (Utah)

         

        Running Problem


        Curmudgeon

          7:45 pace for a 20 mile long run?!??! Oh god PLEASE NO. Seriously that’s not even going to be fun. I’d slow all those down to (my preferred pace) around 8:30 or 8:45. You have enough miles for the year to support some log weekly mileage and if you’re mixing in some speed or marathon paced runs a 7:45 long run is going to suck. Just thinking about a 7:45/mi pace (as I post from my bed) sounds WAY too fast right now.

           

          Also, impressive streak.

           

           

          What has training been like up to now? Past race results with dates, training plans or anything more specific you can provide?

          2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

          mattw4jc


            @Wing - I agree with the "that's too fast for your long run" sentiment. The most marathon pace miles I've ever seen on a training plan is 14.

             

            I vote for more weekly miles at slower paces. You're struggling with the pace anyway, so don't hurt yourself trying. If you want, go for a few faster miles at the end of the long run. For a 20 miler, the last 5 could be marathon pace plus 10% or so. That is supposed to simulate staying strong on tired legs.

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              I agree with all others.

               

              Has your running group's coach had success with that plan for runners at your pace or faster?  I can see that plan working for people in the 4:30-5 hour range, where their marathon pace really isn't much different from their easy run pace.  But training does not scale, and the optimal training for someone trying to run as fast as they can for 3 hours and 20 minute is going to look very different from the training for a) someone trying to run as fast as they can for two and a half hours and b) someone trying to run as fast as they can sustain for four and a half hours.

               

              Remember also that proper training is about assembling all the right ingredients and coordinating everything to peak on one special day.  Proper training is not about proving to yourself that you are capable of doing something.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              CommanderKeen


              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                Beryl - It sounds like St. George for you is like Route 66 for me - I've signed up for the full 4 times and only run it once (injury, illness, etc.). Hopefully your knee gets better and using it as a long training run works well for you.


                Wing - I'll be gunning for sub-3 in the next marathon I run, and I certainly don't want to do any of my LRs at 7:45/mi. Well, maybe if I run part easy then do 8-10 at M-effort. I don't see anything wrong with putting some M-effort miles in the middle or at the end of a LR, but doing all the miles of all your LRs that had seems like way too much stress to me. As a reference, 10 has usually been the most M-effort miles in a LR (usually out of 16-18 miles total), with the exception of a 14 miler that was all at M-effort and was essentially the capstone LR workout of my cycle.


                Still waiting on an email from the B.A.A... DW says I seem like a teenage girl waiting by the phone.

                5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                 

                Upcoming Races (?):

                8/29 Moore War 5k

                9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                11/21 - White River Marathon

                 


                From the Internet.

                  Yeah even my coach's moderate effort/hard-ish long runs for me are slower than 7:45 and DEF slower than 7:30 for a faster goal pace. There is certainly value to doing some running at/around your goal pace, but not every mile of every long run.

                  Wing


                  Joggaholic

                    Thank you all for the feedback! For what it's worth, here's the training sheet I'm following "loosely":

                     

                     

                    It's from the coach of my local running group. The group and training is all free so it's not very personalized, and I also deviate a bit from it. I maintain a run streak so I do run on the rest days, and I do them around 3-5 miles easy. All my weekday runs are on treadmills. For the intervals, in order to keep the TM operation simple I change the pyramids into 400s or 800s. I am able to stick to the prescribed pace for the Tues/Thurs runs, but I had been cutting short and failing to keep the pace on the Sat long run.

                     

                    The last few long runs:

                    Week 16:

                    Prescribed: 13 @ 7:37

                    Actual: 2.2 WU + 11.5 @ 7:42 (struggled the last couple miles) + 1.1 CD

                     

                    Week 15:

                    Prescribed: 15 @ 7:42

                    Actual: 2.3 WU + 8.3 @ 8:06 (struggled last couple miles)

                     

                    Week 14:

                    Prescribed: 14 @ 7:45

                    Actual: 2.2 WU + 13.2 @ 7:38

                     

                    Week 13:

                    Prescribed: 16 @ 7:50

                    Actual: 2.3 WU + 10 @ 7:47 (last mile struggled @ 8:07) + 4.3 CD to wrap up the planned distance

                    CommanderKeen


                    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                      Wing - First off, I recognize that it may seem like we're all piling on about the LR paces. This is out of a desire to help, rather than a raising of pitchforks with a hearty shout of "You're doing it wrong!". You're taking it all quite well, I must say.


                      Coming from a Daniels-style training background, this is what I'd say regarding the plan and what you've said your modifications are:
                      Overall it looks pretty solid. I think the tempo runs are a touch fast for your target pace (I'd say target ~7:04/mi, assuming you do have 3:20-level fitness), and the Tuesday paces are pretty close (some a touch fast, some a touch slow) depending on what you want out of them. Rests aren't specified, which would go a long way towards seeing the intent of the workout.

                      I prefer hill repeats at the start of a cycle, but this late in the cycle doing a tempo run would probably give more bang for your buck. I'd slow the LRs down to the neighborhood of ~8:45/mi, though feel free to put in 5 or so of those last miles at M effort if you feel up to it.


                      Any particular reason for doing all the daily runs on the TM? Do you keep it flat, or at a set or variable incline? Just curious.

                      5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                       

                      Upcoming Races (?):

                      8/29 Moore War 5k

                      9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                      9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                      10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                      10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                      11/21 - White River Marathon

                       

                      Running Problem


                      Curmudgeon

                        wing: 20 miles at a 7:32 pace the same week as 3x1600 and a 4 mile tempo run? HARD PASS! As a point of reference I did 3x1600 at a 6:20ish pace last night. Tomorrow is 11 with 7 at Goal Marathon Pace (7:00) and something in the 14-16 mile range Saturday. HELL NO I wouldn't want to do that at a 7:32 pace for 20 miles. For that one week your long run is 40% of your mileage if I assume you do 7 miles easy on both days, and your 3x1600 is the same as mine (8ish miles) with your 4 mile tempo having 2 miles warm up and cool down. 7+8+7+8+20 = 50. 20/50 =40%.  FAWK that week.

                         

                         

                        22 miles at a 7:42?  I think I did that once. It was called "California International Marathon 2015." I didn't do it the day after hill repeats though.

                         

                         

                        Sorry man, that plan sucks. I'm not a coach but seriously that plan looks like complete bullSHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET on paper, and I'd predict an injury before race day.

                        2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.


                        From the Internet.

                          Totally agree w/CK's post and explanation re: dropping the long run paces. You'll feel so much better running those long runs at a slower pace.

                           

                          I don't think the plan is total BS, per se; the long run paces are just bananas, and DW's comment re: slower runners would make that make more sense. If the club sees a lot of 4-4:30+ runners, especially if they are low mileage, it's very possible that those folks would run easy and mp around the same pace and the spreadsheet formula or whatever in that column would cater to them.

                          CommanderKeen


                          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                            Ace - Congrats on making it into Botswana.

                             

                            As for me, I'll have other things to do on Patriot's Day.

                            5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                             

                            Upcoming Races (?):

                            8/29 Moore War 5k

                            9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                            9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                            10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                            10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                            11/21 - White River Marathon

                             

                            Running Problem


                            Curmudgeon

                              Ace - Congrats on making it into Botswana.

                               

                              As for me, I'll have other things to do on Patriot's Day.

                               

                              cutoff time announced?

                               

                              EDIT

                              Qualifiers who were one minute, 39 seconds (1:39) or faster than the qualifying time for their age group and gender have been accepted into the 2020 Boston Marathon.

                               

                              https://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon/enter/registration

                               

                              So for CIM I'll need a 3:02:00....which has a 3 and a 20 in it so I can stay here.

                              2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                              mattw4jc


                                Ace - Congrats on making it into Botswana.

                                 

                                As for me, I'll have other things to do on Patriot's Day.

                                 

                                Sorry CK - I really thought anything over about 40 seconds would have been safe. But that was not based on anything. Maybe try some fast long runs? Ha! Too soon?