>Racing>2019 3:20, And Beyond
Mother of Cats
*waves at PJ and the rest of you*
My question is: would Kipchoge have run a world-record sub-2 if he had run Chicago today? Given Kosgei's run, and what I saw so many of my friends run, I'm thinking yes...
60 miles, 5 hours for 30 "miles" of pool-running, and 1000 yards of swimmingM: Upper body weights/core and 2 hours of pool-running.T: 8 miles very easy (9:00), yoga, and then 4.5 miles very easy (8:25) plus drills/stridesW: 14 miles, including an 8K tempo on the track in 31:48 (6:28/6:26/6:21/6:22/6:11). Followed with 4 hill sprints, leg strengthwork, and 500 yards of recovery swimming.Th: Upper body weights/core, and 2 hours of pool-running.F: 8 miles very easy (8:50), yoga, then 4.5 miles very easy (8:22) plus drills and strides.Sa: 21 miles, split as first 7 averaging 8:40, next 7 averaging 7:18, last 7 averaging 6:44. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.Su: DIY yoga and 1 hour pool-running.
Taper time for me. Columbus Half next Sunday; Indianapolis Monumental on November 9.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Dwave I don’t think so, and I didn’t think he’d break two. Now that Chicago slows pacers he’d only need the entire course closed to everyone except him and his team with very purpose designed pace vehicle.
Under 40 miles this week. Had hopes of another 70 but ended up spending Saturday in the bathroom, bed, or couch. I considered trying for an hour run today. Every time I thought about it my body aches. Speed and tempo work went well and I can’t help think it’s due to less miles sometimes. 8 weeks to my own personal x:59 attempt. It won’t be as televised but y’all can get the text alerts.
2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.
I received a text confirming this.
Was it from my phone, because that’s not me. Probably joe steiner’s ghost. He had fun with several phones. I wasnt even using mine, just had it along for emergencies. And it still liberated itself from my pack. Which was where I put it after I went into the north fork with it in my pocket. Which it somehow survived, at least for a while.
So, this was fun. Crazy but fun. And I only made the half of it. First cutoff was 13 miles in 7 hours and we were..uh..2ish hours over that. Almost nobody made it through. I think max didn’t make the later cutoff. And that’s just the 25. 50 only had two finishers. Gah.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
From the Internet.
Second taper week down, just a few more days to go! 51.6 miles.
M - 6 easy
Tu - 6 easy
W - track workout: 1600, 1200/400, 800/800. All alone in the dark and the wind! Couldn't get to club practice this week but it felt like a fitting end to the cycle - training partners and coaches are wonderful but one must navigate the last few miles of the marathon on one's own power. Or something. Whatever. Lol. 6:45 (oops I had wanted to take it a little easy but that was a bit slower than I'd intended), 4:57/95, 3:14/3:08. Not the most awe-inspiring of workouts but did what I needed to do. Felt like I had my legs back by the 800s, thought briefly about tacking on a couple of 400s or 200s just to feel fast but decided against it. 8.2 miles.
Th - 6 miles easy
F - 2 mi up, 4 mi MP, 3 min jog, 4x minute on/minute off, mile cooldown. Dialing in on race pace and then adding a little turnover. MP miles were 7:14 (oops too fast), 7:33, 7:35 (oops too slow), 7:27 (ahh just right). Went out hot, dialed back a little too much, that 7:27 mile felt like right where I need to be - that weird marathon not-easy-but-easy-with-some-focus spot. I'll have drier, less windy weather on race day too - pavement was a bit slippery and I could feel the extra effort. I think starting off with the 3:20 pace group will be smart, and then I'll start working my way down after the first couple miles, see if I can't get on pace for a comfortable 3:15, maybe kick it up a notch after mile 20 if I'm still feeling great. Even if I end up hanging with 3:20 the whole way I'll be set up for a 5 min PR.
Sa - 5 miles easy
Su - 12 miles, 3 easy and then 1 min surge every time my watch beeped for a mile after that. Fun way to inject a tiny bit of quality without the stress/expectations of a workout. Whole run flew by and I felt good.
I blog now. It's still a work in progress.
Aspiring Hobby Jogger
PJ - Happy to hear you survived. Did you make it out alone, or did Max escape as well?
DWave - Nice week. Super-impressed with all of your pool-running.
Lauren - Wahoo! Runs on Strava have been looking good.
This past week seems a little weird, and I don't know why. 5000m solo TT again today. I suck at mid-run math, but it ended up working out in my favor.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Oct 07, 2019 thru Sunday, Oct 13, 2019
5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18
Upcoming Races (?):
8/29 Moore War 5k
9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k
9/27 - Run Elk City 5k
10/4 - Wurst Race Half - Ran it!
10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)
Lauren: which race are you running, again?
Dwave: nice week and solid LR. Have you raced Indy in the past?
PJ: I don't know much about that race, but sounds like survival is a win. Well done.
Chicago marathoners seemed to have a nice day. Several from our group had PRs, one female got her OTQ. It was awesome watching the women's WR go down too. She was cruising. She didn't really seem to know what to do after crossing the finish.
Not sure where to file the "former NOP" athletes both dropping. A little stunned how early Hasay went out. Who knows where all this will go.
I "officially" started my training plan for 4/20/2020 today. Hoping for a healthy cycle. 5 easy miles with some strides today.
Had 39 miles last week: all easy except for a pickup mile at the end of my LR, all at the beach. First run back home was 47 degrees and felt amazing!!
Brew: I just installed a TRX in the garage. I'm looking to you for further instructions.
CK: helluva week!
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 18:10 (2017), 10k: 37:10 (2020), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:57:18 (2018)
Brew: I just installed a TRX in the garage. I'm looking to you for further instructions.
I do the book workout and nothing else. I have it just about memorized and treat turning pages as a reward the workout is over. I started just as they recommended and have worked it into a 3x10 just because that's about 30 seconds/workout and it's easier to count to 10 than watch the clock on my wrist to make sure I've done enough. It's also similar to "back in the day" when I did "bodybuilding" type exercise. I usually skip the stretching now because I'm limiting myself to 30ish minutes per workout which I'm sure isn't helping me any.
pj yeah he acquired 9/10 books. When I read his report from last year it just seemed crazy hard for the sake of being crazy hard. I hope I don't get to the point he's at where I've done so much the next challenge is so unimaginably hard for everyone I know, imaginary or not, and I want to complete it. I mean this in the most humble and respectful way as that man has done some astonishing things. I'm waiting for him to enter Badwater 135 and ask "what are you doing this summer?" because it's apparently helping him earn another buckle and experience a race I think I'd want to do until I'm there...then I kind of can't let it go.
lauren how does that 4x1on/1off work for you? just go by feel or do you have a maximum/minimum pace you'd want to hit for that period of time? I've seen some people do it, and have never looked into it. Sounds almost like a fartlek or strides to me with the "on" being longer" than strides.
CK - thanks!
Ace - Baystate Marathon in MA
Brew - min on/min off is my favorite because it can be whatever you need it to be, lol. Always by effort for me, my GPS is always screwy for those short intervals; this time was just like extended strides, fast but relaxed and easy in between. Sometimes I'll do mile effort and super slow jog the offs, sometimes I'll do slower ons but float the recoveries.
Polling the collective sub 3:20 & sub 90 threads for advice:
My formerly "A" goal race for the fall is 20 days away (DRC Half), while I've got 62 days until the new "A" race (Dallas full). Going sub-3 is definitely the goal at Dallas (and now the bigger goal), while I'd still like to go for ~1:25 for the half. Any suggestions on how to handle taper (or lack thereof) for the half to give me a solid shot at hitting that 85 minute goal without it interfering with or detracting too much from the big marathon goal? My training log here is open, but I can give whatever other info anyone might want to help.
Taper for the half, race it all out, take time to recover, and resume marathon training.
I firmly believe that a half-marathon, tapered and raced all out with adequate recovery, is a fantastic workout that will benefit you in your future marathon.
The biggest mistake you could make, IMHO, is not to take down time after it, but to rush back into marathon training. Race it, take some down days to absorb that big stimulus, and then resume your marathon training. The half-marathon will benefit you as much as a week of high mileage.
Won't the faster half give you new training paces for the full? I'd agree with darkwave and say to treat it as a race. Don't focus on the marathon training for a week and only on the race you have planned. I don't have enough races around I'm willing to travel for (https://runsra.org/run-the-parkway/) prior to my race and I have this fear I'll underperform so some online calculator tells me I can't reach my goal. I also have a fear I'll perform substantially well and gain a false sense of confidence marathon training is working and PR the half instead of the full. So take my advice for what it costs.
Plenty of competition even if I was to treat it as a 13 mile M paced run with race day nutrition....which I'm now wondering if I should. Thanks KEEN
Not sure this is going to post since I live in the land of unreliable internet. Also sorry for any and all typos.
I got tricked, erm, talked into this thing by max right after western states. Feelings were running high, lots of beers were drank. I saw people finishing in the middle of the night. Everything was awesome. As I think I’ve mentioned before my job takes me over some serious terrain on a regular basis. And I do some crazy peak bagging type stuff on my free time as much as I can. So I though I would be somewhat able to handle the 25 miles in 14+ hour scenario.
The course is fairly secret to add to the fun. It had changed every year and gotten harder pretty much each time. The map goes out a week before and pretty detailed instructions. But definelty helps to have tried it before, or to have a lot of technology. I foolishly thought not relying so much on technology would be the way to go. Plus my old SE was really struggling. At times I would start using it at 100% and 30 minutes later it would be down to 50 or 60 percent. It spent a lot of time in airplane mode to just to make it through a day. And the power button stopped working, and the forward camera. But I wanted to take it for emergencies, allegedly there is cell service places on the course.
I went to the fedex store to print out the maps and the instructions the day before. I also wound up buying a whole new headlamp because I couldn’t find any of the three I’ve bought over the years. I forgot to get the whistle, but thankfully it was not needed. I heard hunters the next day around but they seemed to not prefer vertical slopes where we spent a lot of time. I did wear a red shirt and wound up running with someone wearing orange shorts so we had that going for us.
I did a did a bit of delivery in Sac and wound up in Citrus Heights and grabbed some nice Thai food up there. Hadn’t really talked to max beyond saying I hadn’t chickened out, but he wasn’t camping at the start. Technically I wasn’t either, saving that $20 was kinda necessary so I slept in the car slightly away from the start. Didn’t get great sleep, but it was good enough. No problem waking up before 5:30 and driving over. 6am start required the headlamp and I squinted at most everybody in the dark and didn’t see max. So I wondered if something came up. The briefing lived up to its name and at probably 6:01 people just took off. Maybe 50 steps and we were off the road, off the trail and heading up. I followed the bigger group after it split into two for a little bit. Everybody had their lamps so it wasn’t too bad. It did get back on some dirt roads and at this point folks that had gone ahead were coming back down cause they had made the wrong turn. Good omen for sure. We were mostly running on a flatish road and I was following the herd.
We got to the rim of the canyon and people were all still there looking for the book. More good omens. Some folks were heading up, some were heading down. Finally someone found the rock outcrop and we lined up to get our pages and folks started down the ascent. Which is to say they disappeared off the edge of the world in a hurry. Still dark enough to see headlamps but that’s about it. I let a few people go and then tried to head down. I was kicking up loose dirt and rocks and just sliding down on my rear. I let more people pass. It maybe got a little better but pretty much all but one or two people were left in the vicinity. And it was getting light so the head lamps were going off. And more people were coming past and I realize it’s Max. He says he went to the wrong campground. And then he says ‘keep up and we can get lost together.’ And five minutes later he too was out of sight. Have I mentioned I don’t really don’t like going down hills? Especially loose footing ones. My least favorite moment on this planet was Mooney falls in the Grand Canyon (havasu canyon) where you go down steps in the rock basically by grabbing a chain. And they’re wet. Scarier than any horror movie ever made. But I digress.
at this point all I have left is one pair of orange shorts to follow, and I’m not sure we’re going the right way cause we’re in a side drainage and I know from the map we’re crossing the main river at the bottom before the first big climb. (I was looking forward to the climb like a crazy person) But we cross it and there is an old mining ditch. And I’ve been reading the directions and it mentions the ditch. So I’m feeling better. But the ditch is about the third sentence of the first paragraph of the directions. Out of five pages of directions. And that’s just the 25 miler, not the 50. We get to the river and it’s a crossing. Not unexpected. The rocks were not great and I pretty much went in past my waist at one point, I have my phone (and more importantly the printed map and directions) in my pocket and I’m thinking it’s now a goner. I put it out and it turns on and seems to be working, I decide to put it my bag on my back cause that’s a much safer place. Pages eventually dry out.
I am pretty much 100% globe on to Hilary at this point. She has a phone and back up battery and tracks to follow and had even scouted the next section. thankfully she didn’t seem to mind having company, I just hoped I could contribute at some point later on, cause she would go ‘I think he we go here’ and I’d go ‘cool.’ My only thought otherwise involved crossing back across and going back up the hill to the campground and driving home and never speaking of any of this again. But we found the second book at. Joe steiner’s grave and eventually made out way to the climb up the euchre bar sign and all that fun stuff. So I was still ok. She’s mentioning cutoffs at this point and I’m not reallly thinking about it. Just moving forward seems like the only thing to do. At some point before the climb my phone started vibrating and not stopping. I restart it and it doesn’t stop and I think it’s the water damage and it’s just going to vibrate until it dies. But it does stop, not before burning about 40% of the charge in a couple of minutes. I put it back in the pack and try to focus on getting us through a patch of manzanita and back on some sort of trail forward.
the climb was nice and the sign was cool (looks like it was written via bullet holes). We’re supposed to take a selfie with the sign and send it to Sean as proof we did the climb. I check my pack and the phone it gone. I had put it back on top and I guess it just didn’t make it back in or fell out. I mostly just shrug and Hilary takes a photo with her phone for each of us. We head down the nice rail or road grade for all of 1/4 mile and she stops and says this is the turn. And there is supposed to be a book. I actually spot this one and we take out pages. (All the books have funny associations with the race, one is ‘Justifiable Homicide’ and so on. And the book is down in a rocky drainage that just plummets off the side into oblivion. Hilary is still in front with her phone and all that good stuff. (I did take a turn leading the bus up thr climb at least!)l. Navigation wasn’t as big of a deal as you followed the rocky drainage down to the river any which way you can. And it was dry. Until it wasn’t. I spot some people, I guess you could have jumped over to a maintained trail at the bottom bit and they were passing us and crossing a glorious footbridge.
We cross as well and head to the next book, which was fairly straight-forward. We continue on the trail until it just hits the rocks and stops cold. I look at the map and it has us going up and over, so we retrace on the trial and I spot some ‘footprints’ heading straight up the hill. I assume other people had missed the turn and scrambled up to get back on track. But on closer inspection it is just where you pretty much were supposed to go. We push along the trail which wasn’t so bad. I read he directions about a fork in the trail and come to a spot where.a trial splits off towards the river and I start taking it. Hilary is saying good idea, which I realize is the idea to get water from the river. I cop to the truth that I was just not following the course properly. We get water and I wash my hands and arms and legs cause I feel the poison oak crawling all over me already. I had for a bit gotten ahead but given I was about to get myself royally off course I pretty much stuck to Hilary like glue the rest of the day. Also Ginny had caught us and she had attempted this before so she helped several times when we went off. The next book had a tricky bit and invokved headlamps and more directions. Among my favorite part of the day, actually. The whole area is littered with artifacts from the mining era down there and it’s all awesome rusty metal and equipment.
We cross the river and the instructions causally mention the trail ‘comes and goes.’ Ginny is leading almost this whole section. At one point I think I spot the trial up above and i lead us up there. We then realize we’re too high up. I stop trying to lead us. We get to a ravine and it’s almost impassible. Somehow we feel our way down to a place to cross. And Hilary realizes she’s now lost her phone. She had been checking it pretty recently so it had to be in that section where we slid down before crossing. I was all ready to go back and look but she decided to stick with Ginny and go forward. This is also where the 25 and 50 spilt and Ginny now feels responsible for us and doesn’t go up her climb to the 50. We cross the river again (less falling but it no longer matters). We find the next book and start up the second real climb. This is paragraph 2 of page 1. Out of 5!
I kinda still felt alright at this point. The course comes back down the hill and a few people are coming down. The cutoff had been extended an extra 30 minutes. We were already past even that. But we were going up just the crazyiest route. Luckily being so far back we had sort of footprints in the loose soil to follow. Although it was loose soil so it was difficult to go the same way sometimes. We make steady progress. Ginny is behind but any time we pause I turn and she’s there. I start calling her the terminator. I learn later she’s done hardrock multiple, times. The terminator indeed. The really steep gives way to slightly less steep and then almost some flat. But it’s old dozer line and covered in manzanita. I’m over manzanita at this point and would have gone through it a lot more. But we’re making good progress. And I’m eating the last of my nutrition and have already finished my water. But it’s the last push before the one aid station. But we’re 2 hours over the cutoff so we’re jsut walking up and in. Nice little gathering there with all the people that dropped or were cut. I heard max had been through so that was some good news. Eventually they drove us back to the campground and we hung out and waited for the finishers. Both of them. Never saw max come through before midnight when I seriously needed to crash.
Still a good time. Glad I tried it. Not sure I’d make that cutoff even knowing where I’m going so it makes it a question mark if I would try it again. But I did feel like I had at least one more big climb left in me so I would have liked to see the one. The 4th and final climb is apparently just brutal. And usually done in the dark.
I went back down the euchre bar formal trial to look for my phone (at one point I had stopped and adjusted my pack so I through there was maybe a 35% chance it was somewhere visible along that stretch). Somehow got more shredded on the return trip. Also took about 3 tries to find the grave and pick up that book. And that was somewhere I had been before.
Probably the closest to ‘training’ I did:
(I went back and bagged the summit on a very similar straight up trajectory to the West with the fire tower, but that gps didn’t take)
Only slighlty related—
TWOT, the closest thing to this I had attempted before moving (all maintained trails but in the same realm of climb)
John kelly was there running 4 loops as training for Barkley. He averaged quicker than my time for every lap. I never saw him.
DWave - So, maybe a 1.5-2 week taper, race it all out, then maybe a week of easy miles afterwards?Perhaps cut off a few miles per run later this week, then 70-75% (including race) for race week sound good? Or just a one week taper to 70-75% peak?Then for the week after a couple "shorter" than usual runs, then back to usual mileage but with maybe one light workout later in the week?