Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 538 times)

JamesD


JamesD

    Darkwave, Steve - I don’t think 3+3 @ goal HMP should be too aggressive if I’m reasonably well rested (the day after an off day).  Since I have a better base than a year ago when I raced a 10K at 6:23/mile and have been doing some faster work, it seems like I should be able to do 3 @ 6:45, take 3-4 minutes rest, and do 3 more @ 6:45, even untapered.  I took the workout from Greg McMillan, whose program Elizabeth uses/used, because I’ve never done much goal-pace running before a half, and it’s something he emphasizes.  He recommends 3+3 @ goal HMP with 2-3 minutes rest about 8 weeks before a half, then 4+4 with the same rest about 4 weeks before, then 6 to 8 with no rest about two weeks before.  I’m dialing down those workouts a little bit, as I take 3-4 minutes rest (walk 200M, jog 200M, however long that takes), and I’m planning on doing no more than 6 miles for the last one.  I think I might have been ok last time if I had started out slower and actually run 6:45 pace rather than 6:39 for the first 3.  That's the point of the workouts, anyway, to get me used to running steadily at the right pace.



    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

    2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30; Mile<5:40 (done)

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      Darkwave, Steve - I don’t think 3+3 @ goal HMP should be too aggressive if I’m reasonably well rested (the day after an off day).  Since I have a better base than a year ago when I raced a 10K at 6:23/mile and have been doing some faster work, it seems like I should be able to do 3 @ 6:45, take 3-4 minutes rest, and do 3 more @ 6:45, even untapered.  I took the workout from Greg McMillan, whose program Elizabeth uses/used, because I’ve never done much goal-pace running before a half, and it’s something he emphasizes.  He recommends 3+3 @ goal HMP with 2-3 minutes rest about 8 weeks before a half, then 4+4 with the same rest about 4 weeks before, then 6 to 8 with no rest about two weeks before.  I’m dialing down those workouts a little bit, as I take 3-4 minutes rest (walk 200M, jog 200M, however long that takes), and I’m planning on doing no more than 6 miles for the last one.  I think I might have been ok last time if I had started out slower and actually run 6:45 pace rather than 6:39 for the first 3.  That's the point of the workouts, anyway, to get me used to running steadily at the right pace.



       

      I like McMillan in general, but I think that if you can hold 8 miles at your half-marathon pace in a training scenario, then you are underperforming on race day.

       

      When I do tempo workouts, whatever pace I hold at tempo effort for 4 miles is what I can hold for 13.1 on race day.  A proper taper plus competition and a willingness to go to race-level effort get you to 13.1.   2x4 miles at half-marathon pace in a workout sounds brutal.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Yeah a good old 6 miles at tempo is usually a solid test of hmp. A tough workout but if you are in shape a good predictor.

        50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

        5k 18.29 Christchurch Parkrun July 20

        10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

        Next race Mount Maunganui half 10k 31st Aug 2020

        " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

        Somewhere in between is about right "      

         

        JamesD


        JamesD

           

          I like McMillan in general, but I think that if you can hold 8 miles at your half-marathon pace in a training scenario, then you are underperforming on race day.

           

          When I do tempo workouts, whatever pace I hold at tempo effort for 4 miles is what I can hold for 13.1 on race day.  A proper taper plus competition and a willingness to go to race-level effort get you to 13.1.   2x4 miles at half-marathon pace in a workout sounds brutal.

           

          Yeah, 8 @ HMP seems like way too much.  I've seen in several places that 6 @ HMP is useful, which is why I'm planning to do that as my final workout.  Don't know about 2x4 either, but I won't worry about that until I see how 2x3 done correctly feels.  My tempo-pace-to-half-pace experience has been different from yours.  The three times I've run 4- or 5-mile tempos before halfs, the half paces have been slower, but I've had other problems in each of them (cramps, lack of training post-injury, and cold, respectively).  It may also be that my tempos have been relatively faster because I only do one workout a week and am thus a little more rested.

           

          Along the lines of my needing practice locking in a goal pace, I thought this Kickstarter for a product called Ghost Pacer looked interesting.  It’s a pair of glasses that projects an avatar running in front of you at whatever speed you select.  The most optimistic shipping date is July 2021, so I think I’ll wait until then and see what reviewers say rather than committing money now, but it might be useful.

           

          https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/711258243/ghost-pacer-your-personal-holographic-workout-partner/description

          Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

          2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30; Mile<5:40 (done)

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            My biggest tempo workout before a half is usually 9-10km (5.6 - 6.2 miles) @ HMP in 2-3 blocks but that is 10 days out from the race when I'm at peak fitness.  I think I'd struggle to do that without going to the bottom of the well early in a training cycle, and even moreso in the peak of summer.  I'd never go as high as 8 miles.

             

            That's just me of course, there are freaks of nature, although to perform as well as possible I don't think an 8 mile HMP workout is the way to go for anyone.

             

            If my running coach sees Ghost Pacer he'll have one on pre-order in 2 seconds.  Going too fast in workouts is a constant problem...he admitted recently he makes my target pace 5 seconds slower than he intends because he knows that's what will happen.  I did actually sense that but even knowing he's doing that doesn't make it completely redundant so it's a good plan.

            PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

            Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

            2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              A post on the other thread about weather reminds me the forecast for race day is out.  It's been quite stable for a few days so I think it's reliable now we're 5 days out.

               

              And the verdict is...perfect forecast.  The range is 1-17(C), 33-62(F) with light winds.  I wouldn't want to race in 17C but with a start time of 8:30am I think I can expect about 5C at start time up to about 12-13C by the time I finish.

              PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

              2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

              Marky_Mark_17


                4+4 @ HMP is pretty brutal.

                 

                My coach used to throw in 3 x 15 mins @ HMP (call it 3 x 2.5 miles), that was really tough and it took me years before I could finish all 3 repeats - I'd normally bail on the last. Even now I'm not sure I could finish 3 repeats at my current HM race pace.

                 

                Normally I'll run 3x12 mins or 4 x10 mins if I'm feeling bold, although having not raced a half for close to a year (!!!) and having got acclimatised to longer MP tempo's, I think I'd opt for longer blocks.  Overall, I think something like 3+3 or Darkwave's suggestion of a solid 4 mile block is a pretty good balance.

                5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                Marky_Mark_17


                  A post on the other thread about weather reminds me the forecast for race day is out. 

                   

                  It was Darkwave's one, right?  I laughed pretty loud.

                   

                  The 3 races I've had cancelled due to Covid have all had perfect weather on race day, so I'm reasonably confident the weather will probably be awful for my next race.

                  5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                  HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                  Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                  Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                     

                     

                    Along the lines of my needing practice locking in a goal pace, I thought this Kickstarter for a product called Ghost Pacer looked interesting.  It’s a pair of glasses that projects an avatar running in front of you at whatever speed you select.  The most optimistic shipping date is July 2021, so I think I’ll wait until then and see what reviewers say rather than committing money now, but it might be useful.

                     

                    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/711258243/ghost-pacer-your-personal-holographic-workout-partner/description

                     

                    That....would....drive.....me.....insane......  Seems like the exact opposite of running by feel, what with all the #s being flashed in front of your eyes.

                     

                    I guess if you want to have a training partner that is guaranteed virus-free, that's the way to go, though.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    CommanderKeen


                    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                      Flavio - Awesome job snagging that new 5k PR!


                      DWave - Good to read that you're having improvements after starting the supplements. Any prognosis for a "full" return?
                      Have you run enough in the Endorphin Pros to form a solid opinion of them?


                      Mark - Killer LR! Looking forward to seeing what you can do in a full.


                      Another piddly week from me - two in a row, now. I think I've figured out (mostly) what's causing some of my issues, though: something in my pelvis/hips is out of whack. There's no pain, but can lead to a weird "uncomfortable" sensation, and when running makes it feel like my quads are tight at their northernmost end and seems to restrict my range of motion. I'm working to get that sorted out, and I'm hoping that combined with cooler weather coming in tomorrow afternoon it'll help turn things around for me. Two sub-50 mile weeks in a row with only part of one workout between them gives me the feeling that my fitness is just gone, which I hope to prove wrong.

                      5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                       

                      Upcoming Races (?):

                      8/29 Moore War 5k

                      9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                      9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                      10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                      10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                      11/21 - White River Marathon

                       

                      watsonc123


                        Keen - there is no way your fitness has gone.

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                        zebano


                          Watson - good pace, especially if wet and windy

                           

                          Piwi - solid week. Your ho-hum method of posting a 42 minute 10k as just an afternoon run really shows what great shape your in.

                           

                          James - shame about the workout but that's how it goes. Banking time is always dicey, a vibrating foam roller sounds interesting.

                           

                          Mark - killer workout. I hope you get to race in two week!

                           

                          Flavio - Congrats on the PR. I'm amazed how soon after the lockdown you're in such great shape. Also better pacing = sub 18....

                           

                          DW - sounds awful. I'm glad you're upbeat about it and improving, even if only due to a placebo.

                           

                          Steve - good week. It wasn't clear to me, when is the race? It sounded like you were running it last Saturday.

                           

                           

                           

                          I had a really fun week

                           

                          Mon - easy 6.4 w/ 9x10sec hill sprints

                          Tue - 10 mi w/ 7x800@CV on min jog - nailed it

                          Wed - eeasy 7.4 with 3 strides

                          Thur - 12.4 really easy. Ran with some ultra fanatics just to keep HR low and get in a few miles while kinda tapering. + 1.2 home from the auto mechanic.

                          Fri -  3.1 - 20 min easy + 4 strides + 500m open water swim in evening

                          Sat -  Sprint Triathlon!! + 1.8 mi WU, 2 mi CD, 2 mi w/ Puppy

                          Sun - a grueling / easy paced 5.8

                           

                          55.3 miles running, 12.4mi biking, 1000m swimming.

                           

                          So the triathlon... gah I have bike envy =)

                           

                          The short version is the swim was on a shallow beach so I walk/jogged as much as I could and floundered my way through 500m in 10:27 (bleh, I'm capable of more but I just couldn't smooth out my stroke).

                          I hopped on the bike and aimed for a tempo type feeling where I could pass most people but the 15-20 people with super expensive bikes blew by me at 25+mph. I came in in 40:50 for 12.4 miles including the 200m sidewalk jog at the beginning and end (roughly 18.2mph) . I stayed much more under control than my first tri two  years ago.

                          On the run I had trouble finding my pace initially not due to jelly legs from the bike but inexplicably my feet were numb from the biking. I got through that and finished the first mile in 7, picked it up and kept passing people running 6:40 and 6:33 for the next two miles and finishing in 20:47 (my only other tri 2 years ago, the 5k was at 7:23 pace so this is a nice step forward). Only one person passed me on the run, and I felt like I was passing at least one person every 400m. Solid.

                          Overall I was 33/155 and 2nd in my age group. I think if I can just do a few more bike / run bricks and be totally used to that a sub 20 minute 5k is in play in the short term, but I don't plan to do any more Triathlons this year. Oh well.

                          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                          JMac11


                          Taper Czar

                            Keen - there is no way your fitness has gone.

                             

                            I didnt run for 14 straight days with about 16 weeks to go to CIM when I was in Africa. I still ran a 2:36 at CIM. Did the same thing with Boston: had injuries left and right, didn't run for 10 straight days between Xmas and New Years, lost another 3 days here and there, still ran a PR. The thought of losing any fitness because you ran 50 instead of 80 miles is absurd. Not trying to be mean here, but this is what happens with high mielage folks who never take time off: the second they even remotely go down in mileage, panic sets loose. It's like talking to people who have never run a race before and don't understand how you can hold HMP for 13.1 miles when it's nearly impossible to go more than 4 miles straight in practice. You just can. Trust me.

                             

                            Keen - repeat after me: I am okay and haven't lost any fitness. I think Daniels even points to a full 10 days off before any loss of fitness occurs, and he says it's 1 VDOT, aka 5 seconds a mile. Your body just feels sluggish because you took time down but youre going to come back stronger.

                             

                            Ill respond to other folks tomorrow, this one just caught my eye as the resident expert in this forum of time off.

                            5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                            CommanderKeen


                            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                              Watson & JMac - You guys are right, of course. I know that I'm not actually losing fitness (certainly not building any either, though!), it's just that nagging, back-of-the-mind thought that's the product of an unexpected confluence of some recent stress leading to lesser motivation, this hip thing, and not running as much. Just getting back on a better sleep schedule and getting up in the morning will help me out quite a bit, I think.

                              In positive news, fall is approximately 8 hours away!

                              5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                               

                              Upcoming Races (?):

                              8/29 Moore War 5k

                              9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                              9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                              10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                              10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                              11/21 - White River Marathon

                               

                              zebano


                                I just went for my first fall run and it was glorious! 52F is ideal running weather.

                                1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)