Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 538 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Well, f%$k.

     

    Rotorua have said they will go ahead but exclude Auckland athletes.  I'm disappointed they didn't even try to find a way to make it work even if just for the sake of being able to hold NZ Marathon Champs.

     

    Wairarapa Country Marathon it is.

    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

    HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

    Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

    Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    watsonc123


      Sorry Mark.

       

      My races are on:

       

      19 September, Wellington 10km Road Champs (they are splitting into two separate races to keep numbers down)

       

      26 September, Rotorua half marathon

       

      11 October, Wairarapa half marathon

      PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

       

      40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

      flavio1980


      King of pastries

        Mark - I'm already preparing to read your marathon time trial race report

         

        Steve - thanks for the race report. Now things are becoming a lot clearer.

        You didn't bonk in the first 2km, you've had a fade from 10-15km and a crash after 15km.

        I'd still go for the checkup because it's a great thing to do from time to time (it can even save your life sometimes).

        That said, from past experience, it's weird that you'd lose so much fitness in 10 days (from last workout to race day).

        I'd wager it could be you didn't recover from that other race (even if you felt fine during that workout).

        I second Mark's idea of taking a couple of weeks very slow (of course that depends on what your coach thinks).

        And play with the taper, maybe go for a more aggressive taper to make sure you arrive very well rested at the race.

        Some things to consider:

        - Take the day before completely off (no walking around town either).

        - Cut the booze 10 days out.

        - Sleep! I'd say at least 9 hours per night.

        - Stay offline with regards to news that might stress you out (like politics or stuff like that).

         

        Sorry for the wall of unrequested advice, it's my nature to do that.

        PRs: 1500m 4:54.1 3K 10:34 5K 18:05 HM 1:23:30 - Up next: Some 5K race Sep 6th.

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        zebano


          Wow a lot to catch up on, I'll do it latter.

           

          Short synopsis of my week (came into it having raced a sprint tri on Saturday)

           

          Monday - arguably the best workout of my life. I went to run with some slightly slower people just to put another drop in the bucket while not overly taxing myself. Ended up essentially pacing a friend who is trying to break 20 to 7xKM @ 4:02 + 4x200 and I was almost completely relaxed. Yes, the 400 jog recovery was really slow (3:00 on average) but even when I've been in PR shape before those would be VO2 intervals and hurt a lot more, this time my HR average for the KMs was staying below the threshold zone. I was supremely happy until an hour after the workout when my knee started hurting going down stairs. It felt mostly better the next day so I ran and it loosened up and I had a great run... latter that day the knee hurt walking at all =( I took 3 days off and went to a group run that I organized... and running on trails was better but the knee did not like going downhill. I'm now going to take a full week off. sigh.

           

          Per some googling, this is classic runners knee, pain under the kneecap and frankly I'm not sure how to treat it but I don't want to pay for a PT at this point if I don't have to. I guess it's time to start swimming again..

          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

          zebano


            Steve,

             

            I'm gutted for you. You've had some great training and some unexplainable races. I do think the HR thing is worth looking into but I have no practical advice. If you had been doing hard VO2 workouts I would suggest peaking too early like Flavio suggested but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Is a 10 day taper typical for you? Based on your race specific training I'm just shocked the HR was so high so early.

             

            JMac - solid PR but after Cheptagai's run recently I'm a little disappointed. Maybe this is a 6k time?

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

            JamesD


            JamesD

              Mark - Know that’s frustrating.  Good thing you have backup options.

               

              Steve - My only suggestion might not be possible any time soon, but you may want to look for a large race, find people to run with (or a 1:30 pacemaker), and ditch or ignore your watch.  Focusing on staying with someone may be less mentally tiring than looking at your watch every few minutes.  I suppose it would be useful to have your watch so you can review your pace and HR afterwards, but it would take a lot of willpower not to look at it during the race.



              Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

              2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30; Mile<5:40 (done)

              JamesD


              JamesD

                I tried my 3+3 @ HMGP workout again yesterday with mixed results.  Did better than two weeks ago, finishing the second three miles rather than stopping after two.  Time was slower, though, and each mile was slower than the previous one, even the first mile after my rest lap.  I started too fast again, 6:34 for the first mile.  The other miles were 6:43, 6:47, 3:50 walk/jog rest (1 lap), 6:50, 7:03, and 7:06.  Overall average was 6:50/mile, and I had wanted 6:45.  My effort level seemed about right even though I got the pacing wrong; I was tired at the end but probably could’ve pushed through for another mile at a slightly slower pace if I absolutely had to.  I think I’ll try this workout again in a couple of weeks rather than something more difficult.

                 

                The vibrating foam roller is working out pretty well, by the way.  It gives a noticeably more intense massage than the regular roller, even on the lowest level, so I only use it after runs, not before.  DW and DS like it too.  It scares our dog, though.



                Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30; Mile<5:40 (done)

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  Steve - Sorry the race didn't turn out like you wanted. If it's nerves, would it be possible to run a little race without looking at your watch at all? Just do it all by feel, so there's no mental feedback from seeing a number - eliminating any "oh no, that was faster/slower than I had planned" thoughts.
                  Short loop courses are tough in any case. Also, what was your cadence during the race, and were you using wrist HR? 172BPM practically from the get-go sounds about like a watch HRM locking on to cadence and reporting that as HR, rather than actual HR.


                  Mark - Bummer on the race news, I know that has to be frustrating - especially when it seems that they didn't put forth the effort to try letting anyone from Auckland in.


                  Zebano - Great job nailing that workout! Wish I could give some recommendations on the runner's knee, but that's something I haven't dealt with before.


                  Ok, another piddly 50k week from me. I think that nonsense is over, though! My hip/lower back (and what I'm sure is related muscle tightness) has been getting much better in just the past 3-4 days., so I'm going to start upping the mileage. I do still need to get that completely better, though.


                  This morning I did what was probably way too aggressive of a workout, but I wanted/needed something to see about where my fitness is. I went into it completely open-ended - wanting to run hard but not too hard, and I didn't decide on how long to run hard for until I was nearly through. I settled into Threshold-ish effort on a loop in a neighborhood that was a bit more hilly that I remembered - the top and bottom were essentially flat, while one side was uphill (moved me to ~6:50/mi) and the other downhill (approaching 6:05/mi at the bottom). I kinda thought I'd do 5k total, then decided on 3.25 miles - then figured I'd go for 25 minutes after I noticed that I had already passed 3.5 miles.

                  I'm choosing to look at this as being a good thing. Could I have held that effort for another 9.2 miles to finish a HM like I did way back in November? No, but I'm not as far from where I was as I thought and this is my first really good workout effort in a month. Now to just start building again...

                  5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races (?):

                  8/29 Moore War 5k

                  9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                  9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                  10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                  10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                  11/21 - White River Marathon

                   

                  zebano


                    Keen, I saw that workout on strava, pretty damn solid.

                     

                    James - I still think 3x3mi @ GHMP is too much but you do you. You really do need to figure out how to pace that first mile however =) High School boys XC is full of fast starters who fade hard, don't be a high school boy.

                     

                    As one does when injured I've been reading way too much on runners knee/ PFPS and the majority of sites recommend rest. This guy has a differing view, that frankly appeals to me but given how bad walking was immediately post injury I'm going to stick with my week off. The real point of that link was to share this philosophy:

                     

                    Poke the bear

                     

                    Which leads me back to this portion of my favorite movie:

                     

                    "bear fucker, do you require assistance?"

                     

                    I need that Halloween costume.

                    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      Steve - Sorry the race didn't turn out like you wanted. If it's nerves, would it be possible to run a little race without looking at your watch at all? Just do it all by feel, so there's no mental feedback from seeing a number - eliminating any "oh no, that was faster/slower than I had planned" thoughts.

                       

                      Thanks for writing this so I didn't have to Smile  That's exactly where my mind was going.

                       

                      Of course, I like to recommend that people find a small race that they don't care about to experiment with running watchless, but that sounds like very dated advice now that races are no longer an omnipresent thing to be taken for granted.

                       

                      Jmac - congrats on the PR!  I need to pull that one up on Strava.

                       

                      I'll quickly drop off my week, and then hopefully circle back later for better participation (again I'm being lazy and posting the same thing on both threads).

                       

                      42 miles, 2000 yards of swimming, and 4:30 hours of pool-running
                      M: 60 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
                      T: 6 miles (showed up for the track workout, but decided body wasn't up to it after warming up). Followed with 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                      W: 8 miles, including 10 very gentle 200m repeats at about 50-55 seconds each, followed by 30 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                      Th: 65 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core in the morning, streaming yoga in the afternoon.
                      F: 8 miles easy (9:31) followed by 800 yards swimming.
                      Sa: 10 miles, including 8 careful Iwo Jima hill repeats (about 2:15 up a 3% incline hill, 90 second jog; 15 second stride, 90 second jog to bottom). Followed with leg strengthwork, streaming yoga, and 1200 yards swimming.
                      Su: 10 miles easy (9:21) and streaming yoga in morning; 65 minutes of pool-running in afternoon.

                       

                      Feeling better energy-wise, though still a way to go (and some could just be lost fitness at this point). But I feel like myself again - my energy is just so much much better.

                       

                      My gait is still an issue, with random stuff that keeps popping up. After some frustration on Tuesday and Wednesday, my PT tried a new taping job on my right ankle - basically take some stiff, non-stretchy tape, apply to my inside ankle (the medial malleolus) and then wrap up and around diagonally. The idea is that it pulls back on that malleolus a bit every time I flex my foot, and thus mobilizes the ankle joint.

                       

                      The right ankle taping job improved my left hamstring dramatically (yes, that's right - changing the way the right ankle flexed helped with my left hamstring), just confirming that there's a relationship between the two. In the past, I've had issues with loose ligaments in the right ankle that threw my gait off, resulting in random injuries everywhere. But....when I checked in with the orthopedist who has done all of my PRP/Prolotherapy, he didn't think that was it. He suspects it's in my back, so I'm getting MRIs of both my back and right ankle to see if anything pops out.

                       

                      In the meantime, I'm going to keep running - this is actually the best I've felt in a while.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      JamesD


                      JamesD

                         

                        James - I still think 3x3mi @ GHMP is too much but you do you. You really do need to figure out how to pace that first mile however =) High School boys XC is full of fast starters who fade hard, don't be a high school boy.

                         

                         

                        Zebano - The workout was 3 miles + 3 miles, not 3 x 3 miles, which definitely would have been too much.  Seems like AxB is the usual format, but since last time wound up being 3+2, I've been using +.

                         

                        I know what you mean about high school XC runners; when I was one, I never started fast because I wasn't fast, but I always passed lots of people in the second and third miles.  That's been my pattern in most road races as a grownup too, and until this summer I haven't had pacing trouble on tempos.  I wonder whether there's something psychological about running them on a track rather than the park path where I ran them in pre-covid days that makes me more likely to start too fast.  The pattern has been more extreme than my mile splits show, because I've usually been running the first lap about 10 seconds too fast and then settling near my goal pace.

                        Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                        2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30; Mile<5:40 (done)

                        zebano


                          James, my bad, I missed the plus. That's still tough, but much more reasonable than 3x3.

                           

                          I wasn't a natural like you, It took me a couple years but finding the start slower, finish faster strategy made racing so much more fun. I love passing people in the final third of a race. It really revitalized my love of racing.

                          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            Mark -  Thanks, that means a lot.  Yep, I've got a very light week this week and a slight increase next week.  I've paid for not doing a proper recovery too many times.  Absolutely gutted for you, this is a mental roller coaster.  You are going to be unbelievably fit by the time you line up.

                             

                            flavio - No need to apologise for the advice, it's what we're here for.  Some gold in there too.  I don't think I lost fitness, but maybe that adventure race did have an impact.  I did try and make everything about the race in race week, but looking at my step count it was still quite high although lower than usual.  Most of that comes from chores and very easy walks with my partner (who hasn't managed to get work since February so needs to get out of the house and doesn't like solo walking as much as me).  My sleep has been okay in the last week, maybe 7 hours average which is very good for me.

                             

                            zebano - The HR does seem unusually high early and often I will disregard it.  In this case I guess I'm believing it because it correlates with a bad day.

                             

                            CK, darkwave - There may be something in that.  Perhaps even a long tempo without looking but I would want to review afterwards so maybe I use the darkwave tactic of taping over the watch face.  CK the cadence data does look very similar to HR.

                             

                            James - I've found in the past the pacemakers start too fast for me - my best races are significant negative splits (1-2 minutes).  The last time I went sub 90 the pacers passed me at 10km and disappeared into the distance.  In the last km they were almost down to a walk to cross the line at 90 minutes so I don't know if I can trust them!

                            PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                            Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                            2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                               

                              CK, darkwave - There may be something in that.  Perhaps even a long tempo without looking but I would want to review afterwards so maybe I use the darkwave tactic of taping over the watch face.  CK the cadence data does look very similar to HR.

                               

                              James - I've found in the past the pacemakers start too fast for me - my best races are significant negative splits (1-2 minutes).  The last time I went sub 90 the pacers passed me at 10km and disappeared into the distance.  In the last km they were almost down to a walk to cross the line at 90 minutes so I don't know if I can trust them!

                               

                              BTW, I don't tape over my watch.  Garmin lets you set what displays on your watch screen, so one of my programmed screens is something that has nothing to do with my performance - the direction I'm running or the altitude...  That's for races.  For easy runs and marathon pace work I show time of day, HR, and total distance for the run (plus ground contact balance now).  For workouts I just show time of day (plus ground contact balance).

                               

                              Re: pacers - unless I'm in a race where I care about gun time, I always try to give my pacers a good headstart,  Then I can start slowly before reeling them in.  It works great mentally - I'm passing others the whole time, and I know once I get to the pace group that even if they drop me I may still run my time.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Mark -  Thanks, that means a lot.  Yep, I've got a very light week this week and a slight increase next week.  I've paid for not doing a proper recovery too many times.  Absolutely gutted for you, this is a mental roller coaster.  You are going to be unbelievably fit by the time you line up.

                                 

                                 

                                Or just tired hahaha.

                                 

                                The more I think about it, the angrier I get.  The race organisers, Event Promotions, clearly haven't even considered ways to make it work, even if just for the sake of 50-100 Auckland marathon runners in order to be able to hold NZ Marathon Champs.  Running Events had a plan for Waterfront Half to be able to safely go ahead at Level 2... which has significantly bigger numbers than Rotorua Marathon (just the marathon, that is).  And you're telling me you can't figure out a solution for 50-100 runners?

                                 

                                Separate start chute for Auckland runners, with them starting in waves of 10 or 100 (whatever is permissible under the level restrictions applicable at the time), wearing masks until they've started.  It's no issue once everyone is on the course anyway as they will spread out.  Champs events normally run on gun time but I think this would be one case for an exception to run it on chip time instead.

                                5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                                HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                                Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                                Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"