Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 618 times)

    Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about the weight.  I'm around 155lb and 5'10.  I used to weigh a bit more but as you crank the mileage up the body just kind of adapts. I'm still probably carrying a bit of muscle from when I used to lift a lot more weights than I do now.

     

    The leg strength stuff (and core work) is great and often neglected by runners.  I would say don't neglect the hamstrings and calves though as well.  Most major muscle groups work as agonist / antagonist (push/pull) pairs so you want to try and keep everything balanced.

     

    Ultimately there is no substitute for mileage and you will see the biggest improvements from adding an additional easy run day or two per week.  We all have a different balance that works for us but 4 run days a week should be pretty achievable for most runners.  A long time ago, I started out on something like RLRF - which relies on a heavy crosstraining component to substitute for the easy running - and someone on a predecessor to this thread (actually Flavio) told me some stuff about supercompensation and the importance of specificity of training.  My training still has a few of its own quirks but it turns out he was pretty much right.

    I do hamstring curls but I seem to just sense that I have to be careful with them.  I admittedly only do that one exercise for my hamstrings.  I tried doing calf raises but also sensed injury potential and backed off.  I was having some issues with right side sciatica before starting the strength training and they seem to have mostly gone away.  I think years of cycling may have helped as well to build strong quads for better knee tracking.  I do leg extensions now to keep them toned.  The single-leg squats may be the best exercise for running that I do.

    Personal Records:

    5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

    10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

    8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

    Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

    Marky_Mark_17


      I do hamstring curls but I seem to just sense that I have to be careful with them.  I admittedly only do that one exercise for my hamstrings.  I tried doing calf raises but also sensed injury potential and backed off.  I was having some issues with right side sciatica before starting the strength training and they seem to have mostly gone away.  I think years of cycling may have helped as well to build strong quads for better knee tracking.  I do leg extensions now to keep them toned.  The single-leg squats may be the best exercise for running that I do.

       

      Yeah, they're good - doing them with a swiss ball is a good variation.  Deadlifts are a good option too (even without weights).  The single-leg squats are indeed excellent for running.  I've gotten lazy and stopped doing them, thanks for reminding me that I should add them back in.

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

      Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      Marky_Mark_17


        Flavio - that’s only because half the people in NZ are called Nathan Jones

         

        One day, I am going to enter a race with personalised bibs and get one printed that says 'Nathan Jones'.

        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

        * Net downhill course

        Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

        Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          I'm wondering how long the effects of a hard effort for the half marathon last.  I did my scheduled tempo run today and the perceived effort felt brutally hard for some reason.

           

          To back up, I did the half marathon on Friday.  Then on Saturday I cycled 21 miles at a moderate effort and felt pretty good.  Then on Sunday, I ran 8 miles at an easy pace of 8:03/mile and felt great, like I could have gone much faster if I wanted to.

           

          Now, today (Wednesday), I did my scheduled 6.2 mile tempo run.

          Time: 46:18 (7:28 pace)

           

          Compare that to my tempo run last week, same course, almost same temperature, which I ran in 44:09 for a 7:07/mile pace.  While that felt like a pretty hard effort, it felt nowhere near as hard as today's.  In fact, I would say today's run was the hardest perceived effort I've done since my 5K race over a year ago.

           

          Perhaps it's a simple as me having a bad day but it's perplexing.  I ran a full 13.1 miles just 5 days ago at almost the same pace per mile (7:34)!!

           

          Is it perhaps because this was my first hard effort after the half marathon?  How long does it generally take to fully recover from a half in your experience?

          Personal Records:

          5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

          10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

          8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

          Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

          zebano


            Jason That can absolutely be laid at the feet of the Half you raced. A common rule I see is 1 day per mile raced, but I find that became a touch excessive after 3 years of training. For a half I would absolutely plan on at least one easy week and ease back into things by making the workouts easier the  week after (either reducing total duration, pace or splitting things into smaller intervals than normal for instance while I love 20 minute @threshold tempos, after a race I like to do 4x5minutes with minute jog).

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Jason - No way would I be doing a tempo so soon after a race.  Some people around here recover like freaks, but the general rule for a half is 2 weeks light running.  I'm at more risk than most around here in the 2 weeks post-race, based on history.  11 days ago I did a race and in the first week I stuck to recovery pace (race pace turned out to be 4:25 min /km, last week I stuck to short runs at 6:00 min/km).

               

              This week I'm increasing mileage slightly but nothing faster than "easy" pace.  Given it's your first half, I would take a cautious approach and absolutely avoid tempo or speed for 2 weeks (starting now since you had quite a heavy few days post-race, including the cycle).  If you don't, you risk injury or reduced performance until you're forced to recover properly.

              5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

               

              2024 Races:

              Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

              Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

              Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

              Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

              Marky_Mark_17


                 

                Is it perhaps because this was my first hard effort after the half marathon?  How long does it generally take to fully recover from a half in your experience?

                 

                After my first half, I was still stumbling around a week later wondering how the hell I managed to run a HM at the pace I did.

                 

                Even now after probably close to 30 half marathons, it generally takes me a week to get back to normal after a goal half marathon, both in terms of energy levels and the body feeling normal again.  From what others here have said, that's at the low end of the range too, with others having 10-14 day recoveries.

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  It's been 4 years since I ran a half so I forget 

                   

                  Parkrun is back on in my town and I'm considering running it although I haven't been 5k specific training.

                  I feel like I should be fitter than Christchurch so I need to go in confident.

                  55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                  " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                  Somewhere in between is about right "      

                   

                  zebano


                    Your training is stellar, be confident, just not so confident you race like a high school boy! First mile at mile PR pace, try to fade less than the other leaders lol

                    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                    Marky_Mark_17


                      It's been 4 years since I ran a half so I forget 

                       

                      Parkrun is back on in my town and I'm considering running it although I haven't been 5k specific training.

                      I feel like I should be fitter than Christchurch so I need to go in confident.

                       

                      Run it.  Have fun!  Don't over think it!

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                      Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        Thanks for relating your experiences.  I guess I need to back off for a bit.  I was thinking with just the three runs per week, I could pretty much jump back into my normal routine.  I'll definitely run on the easy side and maybe drop the mileage some too.

                         

                        It is good to know that my experience today wouldn't be considered unusual given just doing a half marathon 5 days ago.

                        Personal Records:

                        5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

                        10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

                        8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

                        Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Thanks for relating your experiences.  I guess I need to back off for a bit.  I was thinking with just the three runs per week, I could pretty much jump back into my normal routine.  I'll definitely run on the easy side and maybe drop the mileage some too.

                           

                          It is good to know that my experience today wouldn't be considered unusual given just doing a half marathon 5 days ago.

                           

                          I would note that only running 3 days a week, and running relatively low mileage, will generally result in longer recovery times from a race, not shorter.  The lower weekly mileage means that the mileage of your race was a higher proportion of your overall weekly mileage.  A low mileage runner's body is not adapted to pounding in the way a high mileage runner's body is.

                           

                          Other factors that go into recovery (based on my observations of myself and others):

                           

                          • warm, humid races generally take a greater toll on the body, while you can recover from frigid races surprisingly fast.
                          • a course that is very gently rolling is easiest on the body, followed by one that is flat, and then one that is hilly.
                          • a race that was evenly paced or negative split is easier to recover from than a race that you blew up in, regardless of the finishing time.
                          • Trail races in general seem easier on the body than road races of the same distance (most likely because trail running has a higher emphasis on skill, which results in slightly lower aerobic effort for the same distance.
                          • Older people recover slower than younger.

                          For myself, it takes 2 weeks or more to fully recover from an all out half marathon.  But that doesn't mean 2+weeks of no hard efforts.  Over those 2 weeks, I'll ramp stuff back up, doing my first (abbreviated) workout about 5 days post-race (usually something like 2 miles, 1 mile at tempo effort).  I'll just know that my workout times are going to be a bit slower than they would otherwise be as I recover.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          flavio80


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Jason - something very important that we all forget all the time is that we should train by effort, not pace.

                            My current coach even prescribes my workouts by effort (moderate/fast/very fast) rather than providing specific paces.

                            The idea is that you should never be locked on training paces.

                            Every day is different, somedays you will be a little faster because you’re feeling good, others a little slower (because it’s hot, you did a lot of u-turns, there were too many people on the bike lane , etc). It’s fine, so long as the effort is there you are good.

                             

                            Darkwave - I have almost the same experience, however, for me, warm races are much quicker to recover because I can't run to the max due to the heat and that spares the muscles.

                            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: no idea

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly

                              Mark I see Hayden Wilde ran 28.58 at Governers Bay to Lyttelton 10k. Not bad for a triathlete 

                              55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                              Somewhere in between is about right "      

                               

                              watsonc123


                                That's not flat either!

                                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                                 

                                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                                 

                                2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                                 

                                2024 PRs: 5km 20:25