Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 618 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Darkwave - wow... that sounds... serious.  "Normally associated with someone who is not physically capable of running"?!  I feel like you should probably have posted the whole list just for posterity!

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

    Up next: Runway5, 4 May

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    SteveChCh


    Hot Weather Complainer

      piwi - Congratulations on a great race.  PB and first place is worth a big celebration - hope you got to beer number 3 before falling asleep on the couch.

       

      watson - Very nice race and will serve you very well to smash 1:30 next week.  How are the legs recovering?

       

      Mark - Finally a taper you can go into with 100% confidence that it will end with a race.  Looking forward to seeing some taper craziness.

       

      darkwave - sounds like a very challenging time getting to the bottom of what's going on.  Great effort to still be cranking out both pool and road miles.

       

      me - Had my second light week after the race and will start to build again now.  8 weeks until Queenstown.  I had a session with my running coach last Tuesday and he's feeling more confident than I am about the next race and is more looking to move forward than reflect too much but we will adjust my training a little this cycle with more progression runs and perhaps longer tempo as recommended by JMac.  He's left whether I want to see a sports psychologist to me.  I'm still a bit unsure about that - I know Elizabeth78 has been down this track so if you're lurking feel free to weigh in!  For now, my only target for the next race is to pace it right and negative split.  If I do that the time will take care of itself.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 21/09/2020 To 27/09/2020

      Date Name Distance
      in km
      Duration Avg Pace
      per km
      Elevation Gain
      in m
      21/09/2020 Warm up 0.46 00:02:51 06:12 0
      21/09/2020 Easy 10km 10.07 00:47:18 04:42 9
      23/09/2020 Warm up 0.46 00:03:00 06:31 0
      23/09/2020 Easy 10km 10.06 00:48:04 04:47 9
      24/09/2020 Recovery jog 8.11 00:45:13 05:35 6
      26/09/2020 Warm up 0.46 00:02:50 06:10 0
      26/09/2020 60 mins easy pace 12.49 01:00:07 04:49 27
      27/09/2020 Recovery jog 6.70 00:38:06 05:41 6

      Total distance: 48.81km

      5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

       

      2024 Races:

      Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

      Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

      Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

      Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

      Marky_Mark_17


        Mark - Finally a taper you can go into with 100% confidence that it will end with a race.  Looking forward to seeing some taper craziness.

         

         

        Haha but it's not 100%!  There's still a chance of another outbreak in the next 2 weeks.  I mean, it's small but the last one would tend to suggest it's definitely non-zero.  Let's call it 95% for now.

         

        Anyways I definitely think the mental side of things is important and often overlooked.  There were some good ideas on some of the earlier Rogue Running podcasts on this, but it is quite individual.

        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

        * Net downhill course

        Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

        Up next: Runway5, 4 May

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          Darkwave - wow... that sounds... serious.  "Normally associated with someone who is not physically capable of running"?!  I feel like you should probably have posted the whole list just for posterity!

           

          Ask and ye shall receive.  This is the entire summary from the last page (I had typed it up for elsewhere, so easy to cut and paste here):

           

          1) Severe tibialis posterior tendonitis with longitudinal split tears involving the distal 9.0 cm, moderate grade at the level of the talus and the calcaneus, with mild tenosynovitis.  Small spur along the posterior medial tibial metaphysis, at the tibialis posterior tendon groove which can be associated with PTT dysfunction.  Mild tibialis anterior and greater than Achilles tendinosis with low-grade splits.

           

          2) Chronic high-grade anterior talofibular ligament sprain, with at least partial tear.  Moderate acute on chronic deltoid and superior medial portion calcaneonavicular spring ligament sprains.  Moderate chonic calcaneofibular and mild chronic inferior tibiofibular ligament sprains.

           

          3) Pes planus deformity on this nonweightbearing study.

           

          4) Minimal acute on moderate chronic plantar fasciitis.

           

          "Pes planus" is doctor-ese for flat foot.  Which is odd since that foot still has a nice arch, even when I'm standing/walking on it.

           

          As for the ATF ligament - it says all these horrible things.  But...in the main body of the MRI, it also notes that the ATF ligament tear/sprain is "relatively unchanged when compared to 4/20/2014" (my last right ankle MRI).  Back in 2014, it was described as "Diffusely attenuation and irregular, probably the sequela of a moderate subacute to chronic sprain."

           

          So....if it's "relatively unchanged" why did it sound so minor back in 2014 and so awful now?  

           

          (and if it's been this way since 2014, I'm finding it hard to get too worried about this one now...)

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          JamesD


          JamesD

            Congratulations, Piwi!  A PB is great, especially on a tough course without having tapered, and first place is great too.  Getting a PB without anyone to run with near the end is doubly impressive.

             

            I had a very good workout today, maybe my best this year.  On alternate Sundays recently I’ve tried to run 2x3 miles on the track @ 6:45, which seems like a reasonable HM goal pace.  Rest is 200 meters walking and 200 meters jogging, which works out to 3:30-4:00.  Four weeks ago, I ran the first three miles at 6:39 average pace, was close to that for the fourth mile, but faded to 6:53 for the fifth & stopped.  Two weeks ago, I ran the first three at 6:41 pace and faded badly, averaging 6:59 pace for the second three, though I at least I did finish.  Today, I ran the first three at 6:37 pace and the second three at 6:40, so much stronger.  I paced this one much better too - all of my 800s were between 3:16 and 3:22.5, with my fastest ones being the first and last of each three-mile interval.  Also, I only took 3:35 for my rest lap, compared to 3:43 and 3:51 the other times. 

             

            I think the main reasons I did so much better this time were that I was in better shape after doing the two previous workouts and others recently and that the TDP was in the low 140s compared to the low 150s earlier.  It may also have helped that my warmup included two 200-meter easy-to-moderate strides followed by 10 minutes rest rather than four shorter, faster ones followed by 5 or so minutes rest.  PodiumRunner had an article recently that suggested longer, slower, and fewer strides with 10-15 minutes rest afterwards could lead to slower starts and better endurance.  Seemed to work for me this time.

             

            The first thing I’m going to do is take it easy the rest of this week, because my legs have felt tired on easy runs for a couple of weeks, and today’s run was certainly faster than I had expected, though I don’t feel particularly wiped out.  After that, though, I’m wondering how to build on my progress when I do this sort of workout again in two or three weeks.  I want to slow down a little, because I really want to lock in the 6:45 pace, so I probably shouldn’t just repeat the same workout.  The options I see are:

             

            1. Continue running 2x3 miles, going a little slower but with a little less rest.  Walking 100m and jogging 300m, which is what I did between my 800s a week ago, would cut the rest from 3:30 to about 2:45.

             

            2. Try to go a little slower but a little longer, maybe 2x3.25 miles and build up if that feels ok.  

             

            3. Get the extra volume by adding a third interval, maybe 3+2+2 miles, also going a little slower.

             

            Any thoughts?



            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

            '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              Ugh - my response got eaten.

               

              Short version - if you want to stick with this workout, I'd cut out the walking altogether, and just do 400 or even 800 at a jog.  The walking recharges systems that you do not want to recharge for a lactate threshold workout (which may be why it is so appealing)

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              JamesD


              JamesD

                Thanks, and sorry about the eaten response.  Does it matter that this is intended to be a HMP workout rather than a lactate threshold one (as I understand the term)?

                Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  Thanks, and sorry about the eaten response.  Does it matter that this is intended to be a HMP workout rather than a lactate threshold one (as I understand the term)?

                   

                  HMP and lactate threshold, by my use of the terms (and everyone is different) are not that far apart.  I would argue that the fact that this is the pace you can hopefully hold for a bit less than 90 minutes (rather than the traditional "pace you can hold for an hour) argues even more strongly in favor of keeping the rest at a jog, rather than a walk.

                   

                  You want to keep this workout aerobic.  Walking/standing recoveries are good for sprinters and middle distance runners, or for long distance runners when we are focusing for a moment on form or power.  But not when you are trying to develop aerobically.

                   

                  I see a lot of people do workouts, and one of the biggest indicators I see that someone is not going to run their long distance race at the pace associated with their workout paces is when they take walking or standing recoveries.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  JamesD


                  JamesD

                    Got it, thanks.

                    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                    '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                      James thanks and nice job on that workout. i used to do standing rests on my intervals when I first started running but was soon told to slow jog for 50-100% of the interval time.

                       

                      Darkwave man that is some confusing diagnosis. It must leave you with little confidence of the medical system.

                      Your warmups sounds really good and how it should be done for a 5k. I will try and at least incorporate some of that into my next warmup.

                      Yes I took the photo of the start area to show the steep stopbank that we have to run over but it doesnt really show it. The small crushed gravel in that photo is not indicative of the rest of the course where its pretty gnarly gravel. I still went with the Takumi Sens as this is what I bought them for so I need to use them !

                       

                      Mark it looks like there were only about 500 runners and walkers at Rotorua which must be an all time low. If you can get to 2.35 or lower you are always a chance at some of our bigger marathons. That would be epic if you could win won of those. You never know when those top guys will blow up !

                       

                      Watson I see you got 3rd age group so congrats on that. They send you out an age group prize I think. Do you know what it is ?

                      looks like they dont do the Maori woodcarved trophies any more which is a shame as they were awesome. Probably cost too much.

                       

                      Steve thanks. Next time I come down we should do the Parkrun. Are you keen ? I may have got to beer no. 3 in the weekend. Thats a big night for me lol.

                       

                      Mikkey cheers. Im going to keep that age grade % as an incentive  even if the younger runners disrespect it.

                      55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                      Somewhere in between is about right "      

                       

                      watsonc123


                        Piwi - thanks for telling me about the prize.  I had no idea, I've justed checked the site, it does state a prize, but not what it was.

                         

                        Rotorua numbers were low this year.  The changing of dates, no Aucklanders and all the uncertainty meant numbers were down.  Oddly, there were more in the full than the half.

                         

                        Darkwave - with your serious injuries and being alergic to almost evertyhing, it's amazing you can run around 1:25 for a half and 2:59 for a full.  Great week for a cripple!

                         

                        Flavio - nice week.

                         

                        Steve - good week.

                         

                        Re warm-ups - I personally find a shorter than normal warm up works for me.  For my 10km last week I just did 2.5km warm up with a few strides.  For my half, I just did a very easy 2 minute warm up.

                         

                        James - I'm not sure the complete rest is a great idea.  Personally I like to keep running just to add a little volume.  Although I'm not retired so time is precious for me.

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                         

                        2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                         

                        2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Mark - I'm 99% sure you will get to race...I can't see all of NZ being at level 3 by the end of next week.  Can you talk your wife into joining the forum so she can post progress updates during the race?

                           

                          piwi - Possibly...it really depends when it is though.  If it's after Queenstown plus recovery then I should be ready but you're probably coming before the end of the uni year?  At worst, we can do a repeat of last time. 

                          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                           

                          2024 Races:

                          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                          Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

                          Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                          Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Steve - so, I would trust my wife to manage any two of the following three jobs during the race (this is not being mean she is just not a great multi-tasker):

                            • Put my Maurten at the drink stops
                            • Look after our 3 y.o.
                            • Update the forum

                            Bear in mind that although my wife is a great supporter, she is not a runner and therefore unlikely to be able to add much detail (other than 'he looked good / OK / dead'.

                             

                            Watson - those AG prizes are often sponsor merchandise/product.  One year I got an AG prize at Auckland half, if I recall it was an Asics bag, drink bottle and socks.  Nothing amazing but decent enough.

                             

                            James - I'd second DW's wisdom on the recoveries - always go for jog recoveries.  I remember reading a good explanation as to why in a book (may have been Pfitz's Faster Road Racing?) which I can't specifically remember (sorry).

                             

                            DW - that's impressive.  But yes I agree if it's been that way since 2014 (and with how many races since then?!) it's hard to believe it's anything that serious.  Sometimes I wonder if doctors get a little more excited about the diagnosis than about the actual implication (or the solution).

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

                            Up next: Runway5, 4 May

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            flavio80


                            Intl. correspondent

                              James - since you’re training for a half and you can’t do many workouts, I’d say focus on HMP pace workouts as per your last half race pace.

                              2x3 miles sounds tough enough, you can keep doing that one but maybe add some easy miles to the beginning or end so you end up with a bigger week.

                               

                              Mark - To be honest, I’d be very impressed if she can do anything at all other than “Look after the 3 y.o.”. Not because I don't think she can do, obviously, it just sounds like an insurmountable task per my previous experience taking care of my nephews for half an hour.

                              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                              Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                              Tool to generate Strava weekly

                              zebano


                                Piwi - heck of a race effort especially on a boardwalk. Way to kill it.

                                 

                                Mark I hope that taper pays off and you actually get to race!! Fingers crossed for you. 34 weeks is an absurdly long time to train for, way to stay consistent!

                                 

                                DW - looks like you're back to a full running load, that's awesome. That ankle sounds serious, but with no pain, I'd certainly keep training. I hope the MRI is illuminating.

                                 

                                Steve - good week. If money isn't an issue, is there a downside to see a psychologist?

                                 

                                James - I will pile on with the walking recoveries are not very good... but I feel like I turned a big corner in 2018 and if not for a couple of injuries in 2019 and 2020 would be considerably faster now. The primary things I've changed are  that

                                1. I rarely do cruise intervals anymore, unless it's an intentionally easy week (done a lot of base but no workouts, raced recently or otherwise tired) instead I try to do a  20 minute continuous threshold and occasionally a 2x15 min tempo with a 2-4 min jog in-between, and over hills, by effort.

                                2.  My primary workouts on the track are now at CV/CP pace instead of VO2  and I really focus on form. Before if I was having a good day I would really try to gut things  out a few seconds faster and now I really just lean into things and try to run relaxed and focus on having amazing form.

                                3. I do a lot of workouts where I'm essentially just trying to cruise at MP - MP + :60 and occasionally surge to 5k/10k effort. Learning to recover at faster than easy pace makes me feel strong.

                                 

                                Standard disclaimers: 1. sample size of 1. 2. I'm not very fast compared to other dedicated distance athletes. 3. I can't seem to stop getting injured so taking advice from me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                                 

                                My week was yet another swimming week, but a little less than the week before because I went camping over the weekend and helped clear invasive species of trees from some sand dunes. I was meticulous about doing all my strength work 4 days that week. Best of all, after 4 hours of clearing trees I played some pickup football with 3 takeaways:

                                 

                                1. running in a mask is terrible

                                2. running backwards and cutting are things I am not physically prepared for

                                3. My knee didn't hurt at all, and it hasn't hurt walking around for a few days.

                                 

                                Doc told me I can ease back into things today, so I'm going to test the knee tonight. Wish me luck.

                                1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)