Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020
Part of TLC
Caution – Long post!
Lots of catching up to do, but let me complete my introduction first and give you some background information, so anybody willing to do so can speculate about how fast I could have run my HM last Saturday. I'm sure you've got nothing else to think about right now, especially the American forumites ):
Prehistory:
Played badminton competitively in my youth. Took up running in 1987 to stay in shape whenever I couldn't train properly due to various reasons. Running took over quickly. Mileage from 1987 to 1993:
km miles
1987 – 186 / 115,6
1988 – 897 / 557,4
1989 – 2889 / 1795,2
1990 – 4170 / 2591,2
1991 – 4571 / 2840,4
1992 – 3855 / 2395,5
1993 – 5180 / 3218,8
Lifetime PRs that year (age 27): 3K 10:34, 5K 18:22, 10K 38:14. Ran 43,5K in 3:14x.
Never got faster than that. In hindsight I guess my training was too endurance oriented, no drills, no sprints, no hills, almost no intervals, lots of threshold and an almost weekly long run of 32 to 35 kilometers. Self coached with no clue I did what I was (more or less) good at.
After that, life took over and made me set other priorities – exams, some time abroad, work, family, unpleasant family stuff, illness – you name it. I never stopped running completely, at times I needed it badly to stay sane, but mileage varied very much over the years (in the last eighteen years the highs were around 2.100 km / 1.300 miles (2006 and 2014), the lowest at 286 km / 177 miles in 2013 with most years between 630 / 390 and 1360 / 850). Fast forward to the last twelve months:
November 184,6 km / 114,7 miles
December 20,1 km / 12,5 miles
January 132,4 km / 82,3 miles
February 198,5 km / 123,4 miles
March 140,2 km / 87,2 miles
April 92,1 km / 57,2 miles
May 64,1 km / 39,8 miles
June 38,7 km / 24,1 miles
July 148,0 km / 92,0 miles
August 175,7 km / 109,2 miles
September 258,2 km / 160,4 miles
October 267,0 km / 165,9 miles
Nothing you'd call a workout between March and end of August due to back / calf injury.
Mileage last ten weeks (three runs, if below 40km, otherwise four):
Week 34 39,3 / 24,4
Week 35 33,5 / 20,8
Week 36 61,9 / 38,5
Week 37 57,8 / 35,9
Week 38 62,3 / 38,7
Week 39 64,1 / 39,8
Week 40 60,1 / 37,4
Week 41 68,2 / 42,4
Week 42 67,3 / 41,8
Week 43 64,0 / 39,8
Workouts:
Week 34 (ending August 23rd): LR of 19,4 km / 12,1 miles
Week 35 (ending August 30th): nothing special
Week 36 (ending September 6th): LR of 22,2 km / 13,8 miles; 4 x 1000/300, avg. 4:33 / 1:40 (road)
Week 37 (ending September 13th): LR of 23,3 km / 14,5 miles; 5K on cinder track in 24:42 (avg. 4:56),
5K on track in 23:15 (avg. 4:39)
Week 38 (ending September 20th): LR of 22,0 km / 13,7 miles; 5K on cinder track in 24:35 (avg. 4:53),
8K on track in 39:02 (avg. 4:53)
Week 39 (ending September 27th): LR of 19,0 km / 11,9 miles; 4K on cinder track in 19:29 (avg. 4:52),
10 x 1000/300, 4:43 → 4:29, avg. 4:36 / 1:39 (road)
Week 40 (ending October 4th): LR of 21,1 km / 13,1 miles; 5K on cinder track in 23:28 (avg. 4:42, breathing rhythm 3:2),
8 x 1000/300, 4:38 → 4:28, avg. 4:34 / 1:36, breathing rhythm 3:2 (road)
Week 41 (ending October 11th): LR of 25,1 km (longest run since 2006 or even earlier); 7K on cinder track in 34:27 (avg. 4:55),
10 x 1000/300, 4:40 → 4:23, avg. 4:33 / 1:39, breathing rhythm 3:2 (road)
Week 42 (ending October 18th): LR of 22,1 km / 13,7 miles; 10K on cinder track in 49:11 (avg. 4:55, breathing rhythm 3:2),
10 x 1000/200, 4:39 → 4:23, avg. 4:31 / 1:07, breathing rhythm 3:2 (road)
Week 43 (ending October 25th): LR of 23,3 km / 14,5 miles; 8K on cinder track in 38:07 (avg. 4:46, breathing rhythm 3:2)
Monday, October 26th: 10K on cinder track in 47:38 (avg. 4:46, breathing rhythm 3:2)
ETA: The format looks different in the preview window. Please excuse the chaos above.
„Breathing rhythm 3:2“ means inhaling for three steps, exhaling for two steps. If I can't hold that rhythm I know I'm gonna be in trouble sooner or later. If not too laboured, 3:2 is my measure of „comfortably hard“, referring to the cardiovascular system. My legs can get trashed nonetheless …
The HM would've been on Saturday, October 31st. Watson already made a bold guess on almost no data. I'm curious to see what the rest of the few of you, who read this to very end, will do with this information overload.
Note: I know that this is very endurance oriented again, but if you read the first part of my introduction a few days ago, you'll remember that I can't do the really fast stuff due to lingering injuries.
Don't hurry - next AG will start 2026
Just a quick question: If you run on out and back courses with more than just one or two hairpin turns - does your GPS measure long or short?
Darkwave - nice week.
RP - you would have the worst 5k PR relative to marathon PR I have seen on these threads! Welcome. Also 5 foot 8 is 173cm.
Keen - hope you're OK with the weather.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Problem Child
Darkwave - nice week. RP - you would have the worst 5k PR relative to marathon PR I have seen on these threads! Welcome. Also 5 foot 8 is 173cm. Keen - hope you're OK with the weather.
So my USUAL weight in pounds is the same as my height in centimeters. Good to know. Yeah I’ve specialized/focused 10% times on marathon fitness and 2020 was supposed to be the year I went after the shorter race distances just because there are more locally, and my marathon fitness was a big boost to my excitement of running.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
RP do you have some weight to lose? I'm 5'8 and weigh about 148lbs and I'm not skinny.
Josh wow thats some data overload. I will have to leave it to the risk analysts on here
GPS reads long on the track. You would think it reads short by cutting corners but it reads long. 5000m comes up for me 100m before it should. Not sure on hairpins. It wouldn't be much.
Steve we fly in Friday late afternoon. I will be doing Parkrun Saturday morning and my wife is walking it. We will have 2 kids back at the apartment to get back and sort out after etc and then catching up with our older daughter at university.
Sunday would be better. I could do part or most of your workout with you ?
We don't fly out till Monday afternoon. Looking forward to a run with you.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Piwi yeah I could drop 10 pounds if I cut back on cookies after dinner. 165 pounds (~75 kilos) is a usual race weight and 160 is a ‘lean mean fighting machine...dream’ these days. Usually a training cycle is enough to keep the weight down.
Intl. correspondent
Piwi - A race atmosphere would certainly help.
But I was absolutely in a worse shape this time and the previous time trial back in September.
Steve - I’m working on that Gaga picture.
Keen - OK is wild!
The Altra Escalante Racers are wide and low to the ground.
Darkwave - So odd that your watch under measures when using GPS.
Josh - are those cinder track runs Tempo runs?
me - Going without a coach for a while. Having a coach was great but I wanted to see if I've learned anything from this time with a running coach. Since no real races in sight, I'm thinking a base building period and a training block for a potential half marathon race early March next year.
And maybe replace one of the vo2max workouts with a adhoc 5k redemption time trial some time in the next few weeks.
Hopefully I don't run myself into the ground this time.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
RP I'm guilty of chocolate after dinner too
Elites our height are about 130lb and rail thin.
Best to be a healthy weight even if it means been slower.
Flavio you are in great shape and weren't feeling it for the time trial. My 11k race was the same. I just felt off right
from the start. It was warm but I feel I underperformed.
You must have picked up some good training information while been coached. It will be interesting to see how you go by yourself.
Mother of Cats
So....my current watch (picked up a few months ago) is a 735xt - definitely measures short and from what I see on the Garmin forums and reviews this is a known issue with the 735. Previously, I had a 935 which was pretty good as long as there were no confounding factors (overpasses, continually weaving route, tall buildings.
CK - The footpod is paired to the watch with ANT+. And when the watch loses the ANT+ connection on the foodpod, it loses the ANT+ connection for my heart rate strap also. Which makes me think it's a watch issue. I did remove the bluetooth connection just to see if that helped. The connection stayed this morning so that was good.
Josh Wolf - you've given a lot of information, but even so, I feel I'm missing some key information. For those 1000/300s - was the 300 the recovery? Otherwise, what was the recovery?
Just looking at what you've written, I'd put you between 1:38-1:40 for a half. If I got more information, I might go a bit faster.
As for your question on GPS and hairpin turns - my experience has generally been that GPS units short you on the distance on those. But I have known a few people with the opposite experience. As odd as it seems, no two GPS devices are identical.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Cobra Commander Keen
Zebano - My oldest is 9, the middle one is 6. My youngest (3 in 6 weeks) stayed home to "help" her mom cook.
Planning on keeping your king in the middle the entire game??
JW - That is quite the info drop. I'm going to agree with DWave regarding a 98-100 minute hm.
DWave - With both of them dropping I'd certainly think it's on the watch side as well. Good that there weren't any issues this morning.
Running with my oldest two was awesome yesterday. DD1 went nearly 1.25 mi without stopping, while DD2 made it about 3/4 mi before taking a break. I'm hoping to continue this on as many non-soccer days as possible. Aside from the great daddy/daughter bonding time, if we can keep this up it'll benefit them in soccer, life overall, and maybe even lead to some daddy/daughter races!
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Piwi – A less precise, more concise version for you:
Not a lot of running from mid-March to mid-July.
Between August 23rd and October 26th I ran „long“ (between 19K and 25K) on nine days (about once a week).
I had eight continuous runs on a cinder track, ranging from 5K in September to 7, 10, 8, and 10K in October, with an average speed around 4:55/K (except the last two, which I averaged in 4:46/K).
Starting at the end of September I had four interval sessions of 8x / 10x 1K on, 300m off, averaging around 4:35 (on) / 1:38 (off)
Care to chime in?
Flavio – I don’t know. What I tried to get from those runs was raising my LT, of course, but since I have no races or TTs to derive my true tempo pace from, it was a mere guesstimation of what pace might work. But as you can see, the length of those runs doubled in just six weeks and I got faster at the same time. So true tempo pace might be a tad faster?
Darkwave, Keen - Thanks for your vote of confidence. DW, those 300s are the recovery part between the 1000s.
Now off to dinner and taking some of the kids to bed. I'll be back for some catching up later.
Josh it looks like you have had better mileage the last 3 months. Can you run more days ? Consistency with weekly mileage will be better than a long run once per week and lower mileage.
Rather than the workout above you might be better served to do a continuous tempo run for 6kms and see what pace you get. Because your weekly mileage is lowish the tempo will probably be faster than what you could hold in a half.
Well after taking two days off and feeling like crap during an easy 11km yesterday I went to the doctor today and it turns out I have a sinus infection too (good times huh Zebano?). Got some antibiotics which should hopefully knock it on the head pretty quickly like last time. That leaves me with probably 3 weeks to train for the Mt. Half haha not going into that one with any great expectations now!
RP - being able to eat garbage is a significant part of why I love running.
Joshwolf - thanks for the detailed post, I'll have to think a bit more on that one... also I have a meeting in 1 minute haha.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mark – It'll be interesting to see what you can do in a 3.000m race after endless months of marathon training. Residual fatigue might still be a factor, right?
Steve – Don't worry about your mileage compared to others on this thread – after all, you own this thread, right? My last week over 80kms dates back to 2006, by the way.
Piwi – I'm late to the party, but don't be too hard on yourself about your race. 21°C with no shade isn't pleasant to begin with, plus crossing a bridge, running into 39 km/h wind, on a gravel track and through deep sand at the end will make you (and your time) suffer. 5th out of 376 ain't that bad!
About running more often: I'd like to run at least five days a week (six would be better), but with a full time job, a 45 minute commute (one way), three kids I care about and a wife who wants her share of running as well it's not that easy. Plus I'm rebuilding right now after an average of 1200 km/year between 2003 and 2018, so after a hard workout (usually on Thursdays) and my LR I really do need a day of (active) rest. Five days a week is my upper limit right now.
Jmac – 80+ weeks are the recipe for success? I wish I could get there again some time. I do remember running to be easy with that kind of mileage, but of course that was the 90's when I was half my current age. Might have something to do with it.
Flavio – Quitting during a TT isn't that bad if your one and only aim was a PR at that distance. Running your 2nd K at 3:29 is the obvious reason for slowing down afterwards. You could have tried to go one more lap, though, just to see how well you can recover from such a mistake. You might have gotten your second best time at the distance in the process which is not nothing in my view. I hope you get the chance to redeem yourself soon
Zebano – Self supported ultra? Tell us more!
Darkwave – The fact that others already told you so does not stop me from doing it as well: The variety of your training, especially the non-running part, is truly amazing as is your discipline. I wish I had more of both since I'd probably benefit immensely from doing more ancillary work. I wonder whether the reason I'm not doing myself what I would preach to others as a coach is really just „time restrictions“. Probably not, because it's not about having time, it's about making time.
RP – Welcome back. Tough times, eh? Don't want to get too personal, but maybe part of the problem is that you call yourself a (running) problem? Interesting self-image ...
I'm 6'4“ / 193 cm and my current weight floats around 167 lbs / 75 kg, so Piwi's question about weight to lose could've been mine. Yeah, I know, asked and answered. Plus I'm not the muscular type of guy.
Keen - „the running thread on this forum“ - so true! I think that combining the „sub3“ and the „3:20 and beyond“ was not the best idea ever.
Me – Lockdown 2.0 over here is in effect since Monday. Tracks are closed again, but all in all it's a less strict version of our spring lockdown which leads me to think that it will not have the desired effect this time. Ergo tracks will probably be closed for quite a while, races are part of a dream of a distant, better future. I'm a little lost on what to train for until at least March or April and how to do it. Standard answer would be base training, run more, run more often – but we're talking about five, six months here. Hm.
Josh - OK I'm going for 1:36-1:38ish. Although, I'd say that would be down to lack of speedwork rather than lack of endurance.
As for the 3000m, given I've had 3 of the last 4 days off that's probably dealt with any lingering marathon fatigue. I think I'm more likely to be undertrained on speed for a 3000m at this point.