Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 618 times)

JamesD


JamesD

    Steve, that seems like a very fast easy pace in that heat (especially if you don't like heat), not to mention hung over.  (4:51/km~=7:48/mile)  I know everyone's easy pace is different, but are you and your coach sure you're not running your easy runs too quickly?  On the other hand, if that pace in those conditions felt easy, maybe you're just in really good shape.

    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

    '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

    zebano


      Wow a lot happened, but I have a family zoom call so I'll drop my week here and get back to yall latter.

       

      Since I missed my race I figured I was recovered and just wanted to start building miles, with some neuromuscular work (short hill sprints) and if I felt good some steady running but nothing really fast. That worked well until the weekend when an asthma attack interrupted my planned long run. Oh well, still some descent miles.

       

      Mon: 1:20 w/ 5x10sec hill sprints in the middle. 45 min bike PM

      TueAM: 20 min bike into 30 min EZ run

      TuePM: 40 min EZ

      WedAM: 65 min easy. First 40 struggle, then found a groove.

      ThurAM: 1:55 long run (20km trail) + 20 min bike + 15 min bodyweight

      FriAM: 15min bike into 30 min easy run.

      FriPM: 40 min ez

      Sat: 38 min of a planned ~2:40 long run

      SunAM: hilly 4.1 mi loop  @7:47/mi. Wanted some steady running but the legs just didn't turn over. Felt very out of sorts.

      SunPM: hilly 4.1 mi loop @7:15/mi. Same loop, the body just worked better this time. Probably tempo effort by mile 4 rather than steady but I'm happy I was able to relax and have a little bit of speed.

       

      57.5 miles running!

      1:40 spin

      no swim as I don't want to go into my gym right now

      15 min weights (BAD).

       

      ~10:15 total work.

      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        45 miles. Biggest week since mid-November when I thought I would get serious about training for a 5k I think. Maybe it’s the week before my 5k pr time trial.

        long run of 10 miles.

        one bombed workout going too fast from the start.

        might just roll through the rest of the year doing just 40 miles a week minimum before I think of a training block. I wouldn’t say I have a solid base of one or two weeks of continuous running let alone what I think I’d want for a training cycle commitment.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          JamesD - I really tried to go 5:00-5:15/km but couldn't seem to slow down enough.  It did feel like easy effort though.

          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

           

          2024 Races:

          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

          Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

          Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

          Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

          JMac11


          RIP Milkman

            Steve - Will just immediately say that this is a "friendly" critique of your pacing because you've been a great poster and I'm really rooting for you to get that sub 90!

             

            I've picked up on the same thing as James before. Your easy pace just doesn't make sense with the rest of your races. Now, I think sometimes there's a disconnect between easy pace and race pace for some folks, especially as your HM time gets slower. But you've now consistently run a few races where your HMP is around 7:00, and yet you run easy pace at 7:45 on a day that was 85+?

             

            The other point that makes it pretty obvious to me is your HR. Now I'm not a heart rate guy, but getting to 150 HR by mile 2, even on a hot day, means you're running too fast. You got up into the 170s by the end, which is more like race pace!

             

            You know I run in 85+ heat all the time in the summer, and I cannot remember the last time I ran sub 7:45 on a run in the middle of the day when it was that hot out.

             

            All of this is telling me that what you think feels "easy" may not actually be easy. I say this as someone who fell into that trap. My first half with serious training was a 1:32. You know what my easy pace was? 7:45. I had no idea what easy truly felt like. But when I think about what the end of those easy runs felt like vs. what I feel like now, I realize that I was actually running closer to MP, which does feel close to easy.

             

            Again - this is a friendly note, but I think you need to not run a single easy mile faster than 8:15 until you break 90. It's going to be very hard, and you're going to say this feels like a joke. But given how many attempts you've had at sub 90 and have not broken it, it may be time to try something new!

             

             

            JamesD - I really tried to go 5:00-5:15/km but couldn't seem to slow down enough.  It did feel like easy effort though.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

             

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              JMac - Thanks for taking the time to write that. My immediate thoughts are you are right. Last summer I made an effort to keep all “easy” runs slower than 5:00 mins per km and I think I maintained that until maybe a month before my time trial. It’s just slowly crept up as my fitness has improved and I now sometimes see 4:40 flash up on my watch on an easy paced run. That is basically my estimated marathon pace. 

              I think my heart rate on Saturday was impacted by the heat and dehydration. Tonight, as piwi pointed out, it stayed very low at around the same pace, but it was much cooler (about 15C).

               

              So yes, I’ll take it on board and make sure this weekend my easy miles really are easy. I think I have a few km of workout out of 24km but probably 20km to prove I can slow down!

              5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

               

              2024 Races:

              Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

              Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

              Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

              Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

              watsonc123


                Right now, this doesn't apply due to coming back from injury.

                 

                But as someone who is roughly 1:30 half pace.  If I have minimal fatigue and conditions are really nice, I will run easy at 4:45 per.  But my easy can be 6:00 per km if feeling tired.

                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                 

                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                 

                2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                 

                2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                flavio80


                Intl. correspondent

                  Steve - that’s a nasty weather for a long run. I’m impressed you didn’t become dehydrated.

                   

                  Darkwave - sorry to hear about the asthma, you’ve got races and then asthma gets in the way.

                   

                  Josh - Earlier this year I had to stop running for 50 days due to government mandated stay the FUCK home, where I was yelled at if I was running outside.

                  I got insane. Tried to walk up and down stairs and got injured. Then I did laps in the 30m parking lot behind the building

                  Some of the days when I was just exploding in anxiety and needed to get out just a bit.

                  I was salivating to get back running, then finally, May 4th would be the great day.

                  Would you believe it, 2 days before I injured my back doing strength training, spent 2 days literally laying in bed because moving was too painful.

                  Thankfully some stretches (one recommended by Piwi the saviour) and a visit to a PT solved the issue enough that I could finally run on May the 5th.

                  Hang in there!

                  PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: no idea

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    steveChCh I would second telling you to slow down. I think 2019 is the year JMac decided to slow his slow paces down to something like 8:00/mi (5 mi/km?) or slower. He stayed injury free for the first summer he could remember and PR'd his marathon that fall. I try telling my friend to slow down his runs and he does until he doesn't. 30 seconds slower for a 10 mile run is only 3 minutes. It's really not THAT much time savings to run so fast and it can help you stay healthy longer. I mean...most of my long runs were 8:20/mi pace (5:08/km?) and I ran two 1:30ish half marathons back to back. I personally keep them under 160 because FOR ME 160 is threshold and 175 is pushing red line for a marathon race.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 53.37 

                    5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                    zebano


                      Some excellent weeks there:

                       

                      Darkwave, I'm sorry to here you also suffer from asthma, that's no fun at all. I'm impressed that you only lost 10 seconds in the two miles you used the inhaler!

                       

                      Flavio - VO2max training @ 3k is insane. I'm totally with you on that. My experience is one of the following happens when I do JD paced Intervals:

                       

                      1. My legs are wrecked and I fail my next workout

                      2. I get injured

                      3. I peak in my workouts, and don't make it to the race.

                       

                      Obviously that's totally anecdotal, but I think I've tried JD 5k plans 5 times now, gotten injured once, and had the other two options each happen twice. 5k paces are much more reasonable IMO though I usually just opt to run 3 minute road intervals with 2 min recoveries and let the  paces fall where they will.

                      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                      CommanderKeen


                      Cobra Commander Keen

                        Piwi - Great job on the pacing gig.


                        James - Glad to see some progress and I hope it continues for you.


                        Mark - Nice week.


                        Flavio - Looks like a good with even with "struggles". I don't suppose fence jumping super-early in the morning is a thing in Bologna??


                        Steve - I'd definitely be complaining about any kind of LR in those temps, too! Also, "Christmas party" and "beers in the sun" just don't seem like they should go together!


                        DWave - Solid week, even with the less-than-desired 10k result (props on getting a real race, though). Your blog mentions you've tried bluffs and they don't work for you with regard to the asthma, but does that extend to the super-thin knock-off versions?


                        Zebano - I've been enjoying our chess games. I do agree the current one looks a bit like an exchange French. I'm not entirely happy with my position, but I do think I'm making a bit of progress there.
                        Good week!


                        RP - Solid week to build from.

                         

                        Felt really good last week and upped my mileage just a tad. LR was really smooth and was a bit speedier than I expected (don't have pace or time info on watch screens for non-races/workouts), but that could have been partially due to being slightly underdressed for it.
                        With how well I've been doing with all my easy runs I decided to do a workout this morning to see where my fitness is. Just did a warm-up and started running what felt pretty hard and held on as long as I could and still muster a sprint at the end. I didn't really have any expectations for this, so I'll say that I'm on the "encouraged" side of things after the run.

                        I've found a race on March 13 that I'm strongly considering aiming for. Course isn't posted yet, but should be flat and fast as it's the USATF State HM Champs. I'm not sure if I can be in PR shape by then, but it's worth a shot.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 12/14/2020 To 12/20/2020

                        Date Name Distance
                        in mi
                        Duration Avg Pace
                        per mi
                        Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        12/14/2020 18 turkeys, 2 hawks, & 1 rabbit 8.50 01:12:22 08:31 358
                        12/15/2020 2 hawks & 1 owl 8.75 01:14:37 08:32 351
                        12/16/2020 4 hawks, 2 owls, 1 heron, & breaking new snow 8.75 01:18:07 08:56 338
                        12/17/2020 1 owl, 1 hawk, & 1 rabbit 8.75 01:14:26 08:30 358
                        12/18/2020 4 ducks, 2 deer (2 strides), & 1 hawk 9.05 01:17:22 08:33 400
                        12/19/2020 6 deer (6 strides), 2 hawks, & discovery of an unexpectedly nice new section of road 14.55 01:58:46 08:10 650
                        12/20/2020 1 rabbit 3.25 00:27:25 08:26 105

                        Total distance: 61.62mi

                        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                         

                          Keen great job on that tempo. You could be a sub 20 pacer too 

                           

                          Flavio damn you have had a disrupted year but still were beasting the 5ks out. I don't think I can catch you. Lets start a 5k rivalry for next year to keep us motivated 💪

                           

                          Watson good to see some runs starting to come in for you. I see your local speedway had speakers stolen.

                           

                          Steve that heart rate was much better yesterday. My easy varies from 4.30 to 5.15/km depending on how tired I am. Weekly mileage has a big effect. Right now I'm just running about 50 km/week so I can run easy faster. When I was sub 3 shape I would have a couple of recovery runs 5.30/km or slower.

                           

                          Zebano I think over 50s should not have to do vo2max 

                          Joking of course but they make me so tired.

                           

                          My heart rate has stopped showing on my Garmin 235. Have checked settings etc. I seem to remember it happening once before.

                          55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                          Somewhere in between is about right "      

                           

                          zebano


                            Piwi confirmed undead. I think the zombies are getting scary fast now.

                             

                            Keen - we've had some good games, I was supremely unhappy with the last one so it's nice to be sitting a clear pawn up after all the complications cleared. That was a heck of a tempo effort this morning. Good work.

                            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                            watsonc123


                              RP - 30s slower for 10 miles is 5 minutes.

                              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                               

                              40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                               

                              2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                               

                              2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Piwi - my Fenix 5S did that earlier this year.  Stopped working for a day or so.  In the time it took me to dig out my old FR235 and charge it, it started working again and has been fine ever since.  Or maybe you are just chasing braaaaiiiiinnnssssss

                                 

                                Steve - I will abstain from discussions on easy pace, apart from noting that the HR was probably way too high over the last 10k or so for an easy effort.  TBH that may have been partly dehydration if you'd had a big night?

                                 

                                Flavio - that's a real bummer that there are no tracks available near you.  Nice week, though.

                                 

                                Darkwave - sorry the race didn't go great, but as you say at least it happened in a race you weren't particularly invested in.

                                 

                                Zebano - good week (at least on the running front) and nice job on the hill sprints.  I have a love hate relationship with them.  I get enough hills on my usual runs from home that I kind of resent being forced to do them for a workout (when I could be running FAST!) but almost invariably I feel good for having done them.

                                 

                                RP - I've personally never been a huge believer in base training but having a few steady weeks to get a good platform is certainly not a bad thing.

                                 

                                Keen - great to hear you are feeling good again, running is so much more fun when it's not painful and/or a chore.

                                 

                                Me - never thought I would enjoy running a workout on an unpleasantly humid morning but hey, I guess I'm out of that 2 month funk I was in.

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                                Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"