Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 220 times)

JMac11


Taper Czar

     I didn't ever wash my hands unless I was in the shower

     

    What???? 

     

    Also - Daniels always prescribes the recovery as distance for R pace, not time. That's way too short for R. My R recovery is usually twice as long as the work.

     

    Zebano - I have tried for years to run with my dog. She's not a good running buddy though. She pulls for the first mile, then is by my side, then just gives up by mile 3. She would rather be off leash exploring the land, having her on leash just frustrates her. Probably only thing I would change about her.

     

    Flavio - you got any tracking information, or is the Italian economy too bankrupt to provide something like that?

    5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

    Elizabeth78


    Recovery Phenom

      flavio: What about chocolate beers? I had a smores flavored beer last night and it was really good. Your week looks solid. You're going to break that PR sooner or later! Sounds like classic taper madness. Eat some beets too.

       

      JMac: Congrats on your race- that is wicked fast. I enjoyed your recap. Isn't it crazy how sometimes we think we are going to quit halfway through but end up racing really well. It's truly remarkable how long we can endure the pain. Glad you went with the blonde ale.

       

      Brewing: Glad you got that book. I got it as a Christmas gift about 10 years ago and at the time it went way over my head. I should probably re-visit it as it's currently just collecting dust. 42 is a solid week.

       

      CommanderKeen: 80- WOW. I think that having good LR's counts for a lot.

       

      Marky: Thanks for the follow! And also, thanks for letting me know how I stand out. Instagram seems to show my stuff to a lot of non-followers and I am never quite sure why!

       

      Me: This week is going well. I am running less mileage than I typically would be at this point in the cycle so I am supplementing with strength training and running the hilliest routes near my house. Usually I try to avoid the hills but now I am doing exactly the opposite. I figure more elevation gain should make up for the lower mileage in terms of building strength. I don't think I will be in Half PR shape by March 1, and I won't be wearing VaporFlys, but hopefully I can still make a strong showing.

      26.2 x 26 (3:15:34 PR)

      13.1 x 33 (1:30:58 PR)

      Author of the book Boston Bound

      Up Next: Boston Marathon 2020

      Marky_Mark_17


        Don't get me started on coronavirus.

         

        My daughter's daycare have enforced a 2 week stand down because we were in Canada, which had reported cases of coronavirus.

         

        Never mind that the Ministry of Education and every other day care are only requiring a stand-down for people that have been in mainland China (which makes sense), or that we were staying in a ski village in the middle of nowhere.  The fact that there were 5 cases in Canada, of which 3 were 6 HOURS AWAY IN ONTARIO and the other 2 (in Vancouver) immediately self-reported on arriving in Canada, somehow creates a risk factor.  Grr.

         

        There is definitely some dodgy stuff going on from the Chinese government. Someone analysed the reported stats in terms of infections and reported fatalities in Mainland China... for the first week or so the mortality rate was exactly 0.2% every day, then at some point it shifted and was exactly 0.3% every day.  Hmm.

        5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

        HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

        Last race: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 20 Dec, 15:39 (PB)

        Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 4 Apr

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        zebano


          Ohh Elizabeth, chocolate beers can be really good or really terrible.  Samuel Smith makes a pretty good chocolate stout IIRC. Strength training and hilly routes! that's (badass) certainly worth a lower mileage total.

           

          JMac11, that's a shame about your dog. I love running with Piper (when she's decently behaved). She's 1.5 years old and it's only been in the past two months we've been able to train her to walk nicely so running has usually been a case of something I do when she has way too much energy (she's part boder collie so this is all the time). When she was really struggling with the leash and I didn't have the option of letting her pull due to winter (i.e. ice) I actually started taking her out to a part with an off leash dog area and a .8mile loop and I would run 4-6 miles on that and she just loved sprinting back and forth. That said I had a few workouts last December that I simply couldn't use as fitness markers because she pulled so much (i.e. I raced a 19:52 5k and a week latter ran a 20 minute tempo with her where we covered 3.3 miles).

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            Elizabeth - What is your goal race on March 1?  It does sound like a PR will be tough after the build up you've had, but your base from CIM will still be there.  Have you set a goal?  I like chocolate beers and hoppy beers but can only manage 1-2 before the headache kicks in.  If I'm settling in for a good session on the tiles I much prefer a blonde or wheat beer.

             

            Mark - Overreactions like that drive me crazy.  On the day of the horrific mosque massacre, all schools went into lock down - completely understandable.  When I got back out to my neighbourhood about 5pm, there were queues of parents at all the local schools waiting for the lock down to be lifted, even though the guy had been caught 2 hours earlier and the shootings occurred 10km away.  They just applied a blanket rule rather than using common sense.

             

            I struggled running with my dog, Mia.  Definitely a sprinter, the first 1km she would be pulling hard on the leash, then would ease into the pace and then I'd have to drag her home.  I did laps around the block so I could drop her off then continue my run.  Interestingly, when she was apparently too tired to keep up, if she saw a cat, she suddenly had all the energy in the world.  I'd only take her on very easy runs because if she chased a cat or veered off, I felt like I was in great danger of injury.  She was also extremely impatient...if we went outside and did any stretching, she would yell at me "FFS, let's go!"  She was even worse in hot weather than me - if it was a hot day and she saw me putting on my running shoes, she'd go and hide in the bathroom.

            PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

            Recent Races:  South Island Half-Marathon 2018 1:32.39 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

            2020 Planned Races:  Christchurch 10km Series (Park), February 2 (42:23 - HOT), City 2 Surf (14km), March 22, Christchurch Half-Marathon May 31, South Island Half-Marathon August 2, Cherry Blossom 10km September 13

            dpschumacher


            Making a comeback

              My vizsla loves running and happy running by my side after first 800m.  She has crushed up to 18 miles sub 7:00/mile

               

               

               

              What???? 

               

              Also - Daniels always prescribes the recovery as distance for R pace, not time. That's way too short for R. My R recovery is usually twice as long as the work.

               

              Zebano - I have tried for years to run with my dog. She's not a good running buddy though. She pulls for the first mile, then is by my side, then just gives up by mile 3. She would rather be off leash exploring the land, having her on leash just frustrates her. Probably only thing I would change about her.

               

              Flavio - you got any tracking information, or is the Italian economy too bankrupt to provide something like that?

              2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

              2020 Goals:

              5k:16:30

              HM: 1:18:00

              Marathon: 2:45:00

              Next Race: 3/14/2020 O'Gara's 8k

              JMac11


              Taper Czar

                She was even worse in hot weather than me - if it was a hot day and she saw me putting on my running shoes, she'd go and hide in the bathroom.

                 

                This was great. I know how hard it was for you to lose her, but these types of memories hopefully make you smile a bit. Sometimes you yell at your dogs with "why are you so dumb!" but then there are moments like this where you realize how smart they actually are.

                 

                Elizabeth - I added you on Strava, looking forward to following!

                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

                Marky_Mark_17


                  Elizabeth - I added you on Strava, looking forward to following!

                   

                  +1.

                   

                  Always enjoy following folks that live in different places!

                  5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                  HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                  Last race: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 20 Dec, 15:39 (PB)

                  Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 4 Apr

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                     

                    This was great. I know how hard it was for you to lose her, but these types of memories hopefully make you smile a bit. Sometimes you yell at your dogs with "why are you so dumb!" but then there are moments like this where you realize how smart they actually are.

                     

                    Yeah, most of the reflections are great and make me smile.  Mia was definitely smarter than the average dog, but still did the occasional dumb thing.  If she found a stick in the park to bring home, even 2+ metres long, she'd run into trouble trying to get it into the front door but refused to drop it.  Then she learned to tilt her head...we still have quite a big supply.

                    PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:  South Island Half-Marathon 2018 1:32.39 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                    2020 Planned Races:  Christchurch 10km Series (Park), February 2 (42:23 - HOT), City 2 Surf (14km), March 22, Christchurch Half-Marathon May 31, South Island Half-Marathon August 2, Cherry Blossom 10km September 13

                    JMac11


                    Taper Czar

                      Steve - that's great to hear. My story of my "dumb" dog is that she hasn't yet figure out that closed doors and ones that are ajar are indeed very different from one another. So she'll just stand behind an ajar door she can easily push open, just looking at you with the "will you let me in" eyes. We almost were gonna teach her, but it's actually a very useful feature to have in a dog!

                       

                      mark - got a training question for you as the half marathon expert. My main goal is still Boston. However, I'm focusing more on speed in this cycle than I have in the past, as I really want to go get that PR at the NYC Half that will leave me with the "if this is my lifetime PR, I'm happy" feeling. So that end, I've included an additional V02 max workout in my buildup vs. my last cycle. However, my question for you is this: how far out do you do your hardest V02 workout? I've shared this table below, which indicates that V02 max takes longer to see a benefit from than other workout types, e.g. speed and LT. This lines up with what I've seen from other coaches, where they aren't having you smash some big workout 10 days out from a half. Instead, it might be something more LT pace, which is easier to recover from. I wonder what your thoughts are on this.

                       

                      Workout type Intensity/difficulty When you’ll see benefits
                      Speed development Hard 1-3 days
                        Medium 1-3 days
                      VO2 max/Hills Hard 12-15 days
                        Medium 9-11 days
                      Threshold Hard 10-12 days
                        Medium 7-10 days
                      Long Run Hard or Medium 4-6 weeks

                      5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

                      dpschumacher


                      Making a comeback

                        I missed the part about your dog passing. I'm so sorry Jmac

                         

                         

                        This was great. I know how hard it was for you to lose her, but these types of memories hopefully make you smile a bit. Sometimes you yell at your dogs with "why are you so dumb!" but then there are moments like this where you realize how smart they actually are.

                         

                        Elizabeth - I added you on Strava, looking forward to following!

                        2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                        2020 Goals:

                        5k:16:30

                        HM: 1:18:00

                        Marathon: 2:45:00

                        Next Race: 3/14/2020 O'Gara's 8k

                        runethechamp


                          Hey, I'm checking in here since I'm kind of running again, and to answer JMac's question.

                           

                          Several sources in Norway, where cross country skiing is king, recommend doing your hardest workout 2 weeks out from your race. Cross country skiing is a little bit different than running since you don't break down your body the same way you do when running, but there is no arguing the aerobic capacity of cross country skiers. So I suggest you slam a crazy VO2Max workout 2 weeks out and taper your way to a PR!  An extreme example of cc skiers capacity is a Norwegian woman who is the best female distance skier in the world right now, who ran a 32:20 10k last year with a pretty bad stride, more or less purely on aerobic capacity (and she won the national champs in that race). Youtube link with Norwegian commentary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytOTNq5q6To.

                           

                          Our dog loves to go running, although she doesn't last very long and will pant on our floor for 20 minutes after each run. It's perfect for me now though when I work my way back and have to keep things slow. Steve, sorry to hear about your dog :-(

                           

                          I ran 2.5 miles yesterday (with a couple of pee stops for the dog, and an encounter with some turkeys) and I'm so happy I can get out again. My old injury is in check, but with some mild irritation at the injury spot from when I sit.

                          5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                           

                          Shuffling

                          JamesD


                          JamesD

                             

                             

                            Workout type Intensity/difficulty When you’ll see benefits
                            Speed development Hard 1-3 days
                              Medium 1-3 days
                            VO2 max/Hills Hard 12-15 days
                              Medium 9-11 days
                            Threshold Hard 10-12 days
                              Medium 7-10 days
                            Long Run Hard or Medium 4-6 weeks

                             

                             

                            JMac (and others) - I’ve seen and used that table but have a couple of questions that I hope you can answer:

                             

                            1 - The text I’ve seen with the table says that’s how long it takes to see benefits from a certain kind of workout.  I assume that’s shorthand for “that’s how long it takes to get the FULL benefits,” right? After doing a long run of a certain distance, the same long run usually feels easier just a week later, so I assume there’s at least some benefit as soon as you’ve recovered.

                             

                            2 - If it takes 4-6 weeks to see (full) benefits from a long run, how long does it take to see (full) benefits from an overall boost in mileage?  I’m working on a seven-week buildup in which I expect my mileage to be 12-13% above any previous such period, but mainly through longer medium-distance and recovery runs - the long runs are about the same as they’ve been for the last year or two.  Should I expect to notice benefits (compared to the same point in previous cycles) as soon as I start faster running, or should I assume that my times will be about the same as before until a month or two after finishing the buildup? The half I’m looking at will be nine weeks after the end of the buildup, which I hope will be enough time to benefit from the buildup and get my speed back. 

                             

                            Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

                            Post-1987 PRs:  5K 19:12 (2017); 10K 39:35 (Sept '19); Half 1:30:14 (March '19)

                            2020 Goals:  35+ mpw, Half<1:30, 10K<39:35, 5K<19:30

                            JMac11


                            Taper Czar

                              Rune - that was sort of in line with my thinking. I'm probably going to do my hardest workout about 17 days out (I can't do it 14 days out). I was wondering if made sense to do another one 10 days out, but it feels like the right answer is no.

                               

                              James - yes, this is full benefit. There's obviously a period first of recovery (which is why you can't run back to back days of 22 miles at 90% of MP). So there's definitely some benefit that's derived probably a week later, but some of that is just the muscular strength that comes with a long run. The biggest gains from long runs are actually endurance based, and especially mitochondrial development, which take a long time to come to fruition, which is why it's 4-6 weeks. I've argued this before in the marathon thread that people should not be doing their longest run the traditional 3 weeks out, but that didn't really go anywhere.

                               

                              Regarding your question on weekly mileage, I think it's the same thing. I tend to view my average mileage in 3 buckets:

                               

                              12 week average

                              26 week average

                              52 week average

                               

                              The longer your race is, the more important the longer averages are, e.g. the 52 week average matters a lot for the marathon, whereas a good 12 week average can sustain you for a 5K even if you haven't been running a solid trailing year.

                               

                              I'd have to see your numbers planned (along with some of those averages) to get a full understanding of what you're asking. But I would say a 10% increase in mileage should definitely see a benefit.

                              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                Would those time periods reduce relatively for the half?  My hardest long run (including 6-8km of HMP) is usually 2 weeks out and my hardest tempo workout is 10-12 days out.  I would imagine the benefit would take less than half the time periods since a half-marathon is less than half of a marathon...if you know what I mean.

                                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:  South Island Half-Marathon 2018 1:32.39 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                                2020 Planned Races:  Christchurch 10km Series (Park), February 2 (42:23 - HOT), City 2 Surf (14km), March 22, Christchurch Half-Marathon May 31, South Island Half-Marathon August 2, Cherry Blossom 10km September 13