Jim2 and the Boston Marathon (Read 836 times)

In the New York Times, no less http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/health/nutrition/24Best.html (page 2) Sweet work!!

CIM is one of the top five fastest courses in the country. It has some rollers in the first half, but the second half is almost all downhill (although not too steep). If the BAA says it counts, then it counts.

Great find, Team K-Cubed. Great article even before the Jim2 stuff - and cool for Jim! I'm pretty sure I've read the analysis their talking about? And now a question that may completely high-jack the thread, but after seeing your elevation maps last night I've been pondering this very question: isn't BQing at Steamtown (or another of those courses) sort of cheating? I'm looking at Jim's analysis now and I see CIM is at the top of the BQ list - gotta course profile for that one? Is it another big downhill?

This is a question I have raised a few times. After having read many responses and a few months ago run my first downhill marathon I have relaxed my stance on thinking of them as aided courses, but will agree that techically they are. In December I ran CIM and it turned out be my worst race on the grading scale during a stretch of 15 races leading up to and including that one. Three weeks prior to CIM I averaged 6:47 pace on a certified 30k loop. At CIM I was struggling to hold 7-min pace more than a mile before reaching 30k. I ended up with a 3:09 and overall pace of 7:13. Also, my times had been improving with each step up in race distance before then. Maybe I just had a bad day or hadn't prepared my legs for the downhills, but for whatever reason I don't think of those type of courses as easy as I did before the experience--at least CIM wasn't for me. BTW, CIM has less elevation loss than Boston, and more than 4 times less than courses like Steamtown, Tucson, and St. George. It is part of the USATF Gran Prix which might have something to do with the high percentage of BQ's. Competition tends to be quite good among the non-elites, plus Californians have the advantage of great training conditions almost year around. I'm not saying that it's not an easy course--just not as easy as some might think, and certainly nothing like some of those that drop more than a 1000 feet.

BTW, CIM has less elevation loss than Boston, and more than 4 times less than courses like Steamtown, Tucson, and St. George. It is part of the USATF Gran Prix which might have something to do with the high percentage of BQ's. Competition tends to be quite good among the non-elites, plus Californians have the advantage of great training conditions almost year around. I'm not saying that it's not an easy course--just not as easy as some might think, and certainly nothing like some of those that drop more than a 1000 feet.

Out of curiosity, anybody know how the BAA decides which runs CANNOT be qualifiers? Obviously at some point the downhill assist is going to rule out a course - is it just a judgment call? Is there a specific number there, like a max percent average descent?

Out of curiosity, anybody know how the BAA decides which runs CANNOT be qualifiers? Obviously at some point the downhill assist is going to rule out a course - is it just a judgment call? Is there a specific number there, like a max percent average descent?

I think the BAA takes any certified marathon. I haven't checked.

I'm looking at Jim's analysis now and I see CIM is at the top of the BQ list - gotta course profile for that one? Is it another big downhill?

CIM doesn't have a huge elevation drop....only 350 feet. Not even steep downhills. However, what it does have is a steady, gradual downhill slope. See the elevation profile. It takes a combination of three variables to align properly for a race to have a high BQ rate: --Course profile --Race day weather --Field composition CIM seems to fit all three criteria well. Some races have flat or downhill courses, but typical weather is problematic and/or they attract masses of participants, which can make running a peak race difficult unless you run in the upper fourth of the pack....Disney and LA come to mind. And some races just attract a "high quality" field, especially if they develop a reputation for having a fast course, good weather and not too big of a field.

Boston: CIM: Steamtown: Others.