Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2019 (Read 638 times)

dpschumacher


Making a comeback

    Thanks Piwi.   Yeah, I think I can, but having been away from running for over 3 years, I don't doubt my ability to blow up at 10 miles.  Especially with the hills at the finish of this race. 

     

    2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

    2020 Goals:

    5k:16:30

    HM: 1:18:00

    Marathon: 2:45:00

    New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

    Marky_Mark_17


      A few years ago anybody on here running a faster than 8 min mile weekly average got scolded but then Mark came along and blew that theory away . Although it often means the athlete has some fast potential which I suspect is happening with you.

       

      I follow Michael Voss on Strava - he ran a 1:06 over at the Gold Coast Half and his training runs are almost never slower than 4:00/km!

       

      Also Zane Robertson is on record as saying he runs easy pace based on perceived effort and it can be anywhere between 4:00/km and 5:00/km for him.  I kind of like this approach.  I have had easy runs where I was absolutely coasting along at 4:10/km, whereas my easy one on Saturday was more like 4:40/km.

       

      DPS - that elevation profile suggests there's a big uphill at mile 11, then a big downhill, then another smaller uphill at mile 12? If that's right it will be a tricky finish to the race.  The Devonport Half Marathon here always used to have North Head (~50m elevation gain) at around the 11 mile mark, that was the making and breaking of podium spots on more than one occasion!

      5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

      HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

      Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

      Up next: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 29 Aug; Rotorua Marathon, 26 Sept

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        Mark coincidentally I've just listened to this

        https://youtu.be/4mSNKcUsv14

        Zane Robertson interview really worth checking out. He doesnt tally overall mileage but runs for a set time. Easy days easy and hard days hard.

        50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

        10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

        " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

        Somewhere in between is about right "      

         

        watsonc123


          Easy on time is quite a good idea.  An easy 8km for me is anywhere between 38:30 and 48:00 minutes.  Although when I am really tired my pace drops away really bad through the easy run, so even going for time would end up being 22 minutes out and say 24 minutes back.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

            Hi everybody!

            quick update from me. I am travelling as usual. I spent 2 weeks in Italy after the track and field event and I am still recovering (or at least it feels like I am just getting back on my feet, although the heat here is so much more than in Northern Ireland that i am probably slower also because of that.

            I managed 35 miles two weeks ago (my long run had to be shorten by a stomach bug...) and 42 this week. I am in London airport this morning and I will spend my week in Raleigh Durham travelling to RTP for work. I hope to find some time to keep the training up.

             

            I am still planning to break 40' on the 10k at the beginning of September and 90' on the half marathon at the end of the same month. Let's see...  Smile

            have a good week

            Marco

            PRs since re-started in 2013:

            5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

            HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

             

            Upcoming races:  

            Belfast city Marathon, May-20.

            CommanderKeen


            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

              This place really moved over the weekend!


              Schumacher - 11lbs after 9 miles? Ouch! I've been weighing myself before/after runs and I've been losing 5-6lbs after about 10.
              Added you on Strava, btw.


              JMac - Nice week. The frequent water stops are one thing I envy about your running location. Unless I setup my own stops along my routes, it's either no water or whatever I can bring with me.


              Flavio - Nice week back.


              Has anyone read Waterlogged (or anything else) by Dr. Tim Noakes? To me this guy makes a lot of sense, and a fair bit of what he has is completely contrary to what's generally thought/talked about.


              Last week was a bit rough after having almost all of the prior week off. HR way too high for the effort, feeling like I had lost all my heat acclimatization, etc. I didn't get a LR in, but not too worried about that since I'm still nearly 15 weeks out from my goal HM. Today's run was SO much better than anything last week. Temps/humidity were still poor (~73/22.7 & 71/22.6 respectively) but I felt much better. HR was low at the end of the first mile (I figured it was just the tailwind), but that held on. I even tacked on an extra mile since I got out a bit early today. Saving a workout for tomorrow since temps should be even better then (63F/17.2C predicted).

               

              Monday, Jul 15, 2019 thru Sunday, Jul 21, 2019

              <tfoot> </tfoot>
              Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
              Mon 10.7 7:29 Practicing my "W"s at M effort 161 (82%) strava
              Tue 11.1 8:23 2 rabbits, 1 heron, and 2 oddly cool pockets of air that felt great 154 (79%) strava
              Wed 8.3 8:29 Running down the road yelling "Foghorn Leghorn! His name is Foghorn Leghorn!" Happy the gang figured it out 155 (79%) strava
              Thu 9.4 8:07 5x 1k at a bit over threshold effort 156 (80%) strava
              Fri 9.4 8:34 2 hawks, 1 scissor-tailed fly catcher, and the XC coach setting up a water stop 149 (76%) strava
              Sat 6.4 8:02 Not sure what this run was for other than testing the new shoes 153 (78%) strava
                55.3 8:08

              5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

               

              Upcoming Races (?):

              9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5K

              9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

              10/4 - Wurst Race Half

              10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

              Late Oct./Early Nov. - Some flat, fast marathon (hopefully)

               

              JMac11


              Taper Czar

                Keen - never heard of him. Have you read it, or recommend it from someone else?

                 

                Mark/Easy Runs - I would be careful there with easy pace. This is a classic case of confirmation bias. We can all find someone who runs as fast as we want on easy runs, or as slow as we want. If you look at world class runners, it's all over the place.  We talk about this all the time, but it really is a variable. This summer has been enlightening for me in this aspect. Before the weather got hot, I was down to 7:05/4:25 pace, which was starting to worry me at how fast it was getting. Then the hot weather hit and I took a week off, and all of a sudden I was up to 8:15/5:05 pace! My easy run pace is now around 7:30/4:40 pace on nice summer days. This isn't even including recovery runs, where I can get even slower. Plus, as we've all pointed out, Mark can do this because he's not "high" mileage compared to his average, as he's been running 50-60 MPW now for 2 years or so. If he gets up to 80 MPW for a marathon, that easy pace will slow, or he will be in trouble. Yes this has all been said before, but always worth getting it out there for the new folks that have joined.

                 

                And finally, this is clear to me and I don't think it's really disputable: it is much better to run your easy days too slowly than too quickly. I've thought more about it this summer especially, as I've realized all of my injuries in the past have come in the cooler months. My guess is that it's because my average pace is a good 30 seconds faster in the cooler months. If you're running 30 seconds per mile faster for 60 miles a week, you're going to set yourself up for more injuries.

                 

                Speaking of new folks - thank you for sticking around DP and CC! We've had a few new faces come and go, but you guys have stuck around nicely.

                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  JMac - I've heard about him (and that book) for some time, but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. It's probably next, after I finish Endure (a book on the limits/limiting factor of endurance), a book that has referenced him and his research multiple times already. I did listen to a podcast interview of him a week or so ago, though. Quite interesting stuff, and I learned that he doesn't actually make any money on his books - it goes to research.

                   

                  Easy runs- I certainly agree with JMac about it being better to go too slowly than too quickly. I see SO many people running too fast, though. 3:2X and slower marathoners running "easy" days faster than I do, and ~3:00 marathoners running theirs as fast (or in some cases faster) than the 2:30-2:45 marathoners I know.

                  I mostly use effort/running power to keep below a certain effort level these days, but also HR. It's interesting to see how weather conditions, or a hard workout the day before affects my pace (which I don't actually see until after my run).

                  ETA: People are of course free to run however they choose, but that doesn't mean one can't take advantage of this. I actually have a two-pronged plan to go sub-3 hours sooner than one local guy that uses both sides of this. The first prong is keeping my own easy days easy and hard days hard. The second is watching him exacerbate his "speed surplus" by running his easy days way too fast. For reference, this guy has run sub-18 for 5k, but is a ~3:03 marathoner - so he's about a minute faster than me for both 5k and marathon.

                  5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races (?):

                  9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5K

                  9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                  10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                  10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                  Late Oct./Early Nov. - Some flat, fast marathon (hopefully)

                   


                  Glute Force

                    Noakes and Marcora are referenced in almost every single book or podcast about running. I have listened to Endure and some other audiobooks but never to Noakes' own works, unfortunately. Let me know if it is a good one!

                    CommanderKeen


                    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                      MJ - I'd actually never heard of Marcora before starting Endure, but have heard of Noakes quite a bit. I just haven't looked directly into his stuff prior to hearing that podcast - but it was already on the to-do list. If you want to give that podcast a listen, it's here: https://tenjunkmiles.libsyn.com/long-run-82-dr-tim-noakes

                      5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                       

                      Upcoming Races (?):

                      9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5K

                      9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                      10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                      10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                      Late Oct./Early Nov. - Some flat, fast marathon (hopefully)

                       

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        JMac - I wouldn't describe it as confirmation bias.  It was more just that it was good to see a top athlete actually say he runs easy to effort rather than pace.  As we know I don't post my average paces because some smartass always says 'oh your easy runs should be slower than 5:00/km'.  But I do run them to effort and HR and that means that sometimes they end up faster than others.  Pace can be a very poor measure of effort.

                         

                        In your case, if you were running easy runs at 4:25/km, I would say that you shouldn't actually have been worried about the pace as long as the effort felt genuinely easy.

                         

                        I follow enough athletes on Strava now to realise there's a lot of variation as to what easy pace can look like even amongst highly competitive runners.  But these are guys who are running sub-70 minute half marathons and sub-2:40 marathons in many cases so they know their stuff.

                        5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                        HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                        Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                        Up next: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 29 Aug; Rotorua Marathon, 26 Sept

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        dpschumacher


                        Making a comeback

                          On the whole easy run thing....i quietly mumble to myself in response to the podcast or book on tape I'm listening to on my phone (or hum to music). If i can keep up "conversation" pace I am good on easy days. If i have a hard time keeping the "conversation" up, I slow down. I figure I shouldn't be out of breath on a easy run.  Down side, I some times scare people as I come up behind them and pass as they think I'm talking to them.

                           

                          HR wise that generally keeps me in the 140-150 range. I don't use my heart rate for training other than to confirm what my body is telling me. I generally see it abnormally high on an easy run when I also feel that I've been pushing too hard even if I'm at 8/min/mile.

                          2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                          2020 Goals:

                          5k:16:30

                          HM: 1:18:00

                          Marathon: 2:45:00

                          New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                            My runs have been too fast lately partly due to my low mileage and partly because my 21 yr old runs with me on some of them and always starts at 4.30/km 7.12/mile pace. He fades back a bit after 3 miles 

                            For older runners a few slow miles to warm up seems to be required. I'm pretty stiff and achy when I first start out.

                             

                            But yeah I see alot of variation in paces on Strava.

                            I follow a few local elites who run closer to Mark's pace.

                            It seems obvious though if you are a faster runner your easy pace can be faster too.

                            50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

                            10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

                            " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                            Somewhere in between is about right "      

                             

                            Marky_Mark_17


                               

                              It seems obvious though if you are a faster runner your easy pace can be faster too.

                               

                              The key words here are 'can be'.  I follow both Jono Jackson (67-min HM) and Michael Voss (65-min HM) who are generally both around the 150km/week mark.  Voss almost never runs anything slower than 4:00/km.  Jackson is often around the 4:40/km mark for easy stuff.

                               

                              Dan Jones who just ran a 2:16 marathon over on the Gold Coast is all over the place too.  His easy runs have been anywhere 4:00/km and 5:00/km - the latter mostly when he was on around 200km/week coming up to the marathon.  He runs some utterly ridiculous workouts too.

                               

                              I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you trust yourself to keep the effort easy, then the pace is just an outcome (not a target one way or another).

                              5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                              HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                              Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                              Up next: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 29 Aug; Rotorua Marathon, 26 Sept

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              JMac11


                              Taper Czar

                                I think Mark is super human and can get away with it. Most of us probably need to be slower. I always try to follow the rule that easy runs should not be faster than MP+15%. For me, that’s around 7:15, so if I start creeping down to 7:00, I will actively try to slow down. I don’t really think of anything as being too slow on the back end. I ran my cool down tonight at 9:30 pace!

                                 

                                Speaking of which, I ran my first VO2 max tonight in over 6 months! I forgot what they feel like. I expected my legs to burn more like Rep (mile-paced) work, but they didn’t burn at all. But man, the oxygen suck is real. Felt like a fish out of water. I think the Rep work really prepped me well for these though, because I remember these hurting a LOT more during marathon training. Of course, you often warm up with 6 miles in marathon training instead of the 2 I did tonight, so that may be it 

                                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run