Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2019
Cobra Commander Keen
DPS - Finding your actual max HR (tested/recorded, not via formula) and preferably also knowing your resting HR are what give context to your HR during a run. That aside, anytime you're on a run that isn't a workout the top of Z2 should be a ceiling - don't break into Z3 at all. That's essentially a dead zone from an HR training perspective - not easy enough to be easy and help you recover or develop aerobically or recover, and not hard enough to be a workout.
I'll use myself as an example: this is from my LR Saturday which was about 73/22.7 and DP 67/19.4. Honestly, if I hadn't been using running power as a governor and had paid more attention to Hr I likely would have sped up to what probably would have been sub-8/mi / 5 min/km and gotten some better aerobic benefits with more time in Z2.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
DPS - the best way to find out your max HR (short of a lab test) is just to run a 5k time trial or race. If you're really pushing during that last km, your HR will get pretty close to max. Add ~2bpm to the highest HR measurement and that's normally pretty close to your max HR.
The old 220 minus your age formula isn't that accurate. I haven't done a 5km in a while, but my HR maxed at 186bpm during a recent 10k, gets me pretty close to 190bpm which was what I'd previously figured my max to be (although it does decrease with age).
Just from looking at that run, if you were pushing that last 5km I'd say your max was probably closer to 180bpm but that's just a guess. There is a really wide range out there. The same race that I peaked at 186bpm, Greg Darbyshire (couple years old than me and was about 90 seconds ahead of me) peaked at 160bpm.
Like Keen says, Zone 1-2 is generally the place you want to be most of the time - keep anything above that for workouts. You'll want to figure out your max HR to get those zones calibrated correctly though.
Piwi - what is with most of the good young runners being Waikato / BOP guys at the moment? Voss, Pulford, Oakley. You guys are doing something well!
Keen - nice week. Apart from the MAMILs, perhaps. There is a very good cycleway on the road that I live just off, so I am used to seeing large packs of them as well.
Marco - nice week.
JMac - a discussion about easy pace and you didn't mention my easy run from yesterday (~4:50/km / ~7:45/ mile)?! That was almost an all-time record for me haha. I ran it on feel and my legs were a bit sluggish from the weekend. But seriously though, as my mileage has crept up, that easy pace has definitely slowed up. It's totally necessary to ensure that your legs are fresh for workouts.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
JMac - Training question for you, since we kinda touched on this via Strava. I'm not following any specific plan right now - just trying to keep mileage above 70/wk with two workouts. Mostly wanting to focus those on T and M effort, plus those "between T and 10k effort" ~1k intervals w/ 1 min recovery I'm liking lately. Here's the question, though:
Let's say this is mostly what I'm doing for workouts: 8-10mi M pace, or maybe 5-7M w/ 1-3T at the end, 7-8x 1k intervals as above, and that I do the 20/15/10/5 min T workout. Those are pretty big (to me at least), but I seem to be handling everything fine. Do I just hold on those as they are, perhaps mixing up which ones I do each week to keep from getting stale, or do I build a bit more on these?
I'm asking because (as I mentioned via Strava) I'm ~ 8 weeks from my half, and if I run a marathon that's ~13 weeks out. I don't want to burn out, but I'd also like to leave as little on the table as possible.
Everyone else feel free to chime in as well!
Intl. correspondent
James - LOL at the photographer, you can’t blame them. I’d bet the ladies are way more likely to purchase the photos.
Watson - nice race, how did this one feel compared to the few ones from a couple months back?
Piwi - LOL are you talking about the blonde chick who was run over by the other racers? Damn it puts things in perspective as IIRC this one lady is super fast.
Mark - I 100% support the race organisers. It was the sane thing to do.
DPS - I also noticed your super fast runs, but I figured your current PRs are soft. Or maybe you're super strong.
Jmac - at this point Brazil has more accurate course measurements than New Zealand LOL LOL LOL
me - forecast for the race this Sunday is very warm/humid weather and head wind in both directions
Also I'm sure there will be chaos again, it's a commemorative run after all and it attracts a lot of people who are not used to races, stop for selfies, etc.
However, they're gifting the first 40 (based on net time) with 2 tickets to the next soccer match, I'll try to snatch those and give them to my in laws. I hope there aren't many cheaters turning around before the turn around point.
The race starts doing a lap around the stadium then goes out and back over a local road and ends inside the stadium sprinting over the grass to the finish line. That sounds pretty awesome to be honest.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Keen - you're lacking periodization. Your training block is supposed to move you from a point to another point through some intermediate points. That's why there are training plans. Generally speaking there are phases that focus on different aspects (aerobic buildup, speed endurance, race specific) and those should be timed correctly so that you peak exactly on race day.
Did you consider purchasing a custom training plan from the runsmartproject ,or maybe using one from the book?
Flavio - the Dunedin Half Marathon finishes in the middle of a stadium much like your race. As finish lines go, it's a pretty cool experience!!
JMac - re the table on the front page... my official time for Auckland Road Champs 10k was 34:15 - so not a PR. Gunning for it this Sunday though!
Well, I appeared in another promotional shot. Not sure it will help them sell tickets though!
Mark that photo is great. They should have cut out the dude walking though!
Pulford is closing in on 30 so not so young. Sam Tanner is the real star right now. Keep an eye out for him.
I'm happy for Nick Willis winning that 5th Avenue mile as he has been at the back of the pack in the Diamond league 1500s and 5000s. He was relieved as he said post interview and it gives him some encouragement for the rest of the year.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Was the New York race slightly downhill? If not, it was a fast time.
Keen - I'm getting better, thanks. I think Flavio has a point re periodization. Maybe post your marathon, look for a March 5km race and drop your volume and increase intensity?
Flavio - three weeks of really low volume (travel plus taper, sick, sick) probably cost me 10 seconds as I faded a little the last few km's. Paced it well (fade was only a little).
Re DPS, I'm not sure it's too big a deal if he's a little quick as:
- HR is just a guide.
- Some people naturally have an easy pace which is on the quicker end of easy.
- (Most importantly) he's not getting sick or injured, and he's clearly improving right now. Why change what's working?
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Watson yes slightly elevation loss. I was reading on letsrun and a NYRR guy commented about the exact elevation.
Because they run straight without turns helps too. No one is stuck in lane 2 like on a track. They can also see the finish from halfway which helps.
Watson I missed it earlier but nice race, really well done given you have been sick hope you are feeling better.
Mark nice promo photo!
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)
RIP Milkman
Mark - as I pointed out in my post, I've definitely noticed your easy runs have slowed by 10-15 seconds per mile as your mileage has come up. I think you're in the sweet spot right now for easy runs. Also, a June marathon???
Watson/DPS - yes, HR is just a guide, and some people do have an easy pace that is faster than others. But the two things do not go together: you cannot naturally have a faster easy pace that is high HR. Some people have higher HRs, but their easy pace range is square within what is considered normal, or they have lower HRs, but can ramp up easy runs faster than guides would tell you. DPS is missing both of those, which would indicate he is running too fast. Additionally, slow easy running is not just about avoiding injury, it's also about keeping yourself fresh for races and workouts.
Keen - I'm not sure that prioritization is as crucial for the marathon as it is for other shorter distances. The marathon is almost solely about one type of work: threshold work. It is the bread and butter of marathons. MP work is just about getting yourself mentally prepped, but you don't physically need it. Interval work (3K-5K pace) is good for keeping up speed, but also not crucial. The most important things for marathons, in order, are:
1) Weekly Mileage
2) Long Runs
3) Threshold Runs
4) Everything else
I would say you should try to build your M distance from 8 to 14 by the end of the cycle. For threshold work, it's more about just mixing it up. Try these types of variants of 16+ mile runs. I tend to think of these as Long + cruise intervals, ETE, TET, ET, etc.
8E + 3x2T + 2E
2E + 2T + 8E + 2T + 2E
12E + 3T + 1E
6E + 2T + 6E + 2T + 2E
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
3 months til Masters
Mark - very zoolander in the photo.
Heartrate update. Took it this morning- resting 48 bpm at wake up.
Did some long striders and got it up to 187 bpm after the run this morning.
I have never really read up on heart monitoring as a training method. I have always done workouts by milage and pace...but I and sure there is value. I just haven't read up on it enough to know anything in depth about it.
I have had losts of injuries with my back that have caused me to stop running for months on end, so part of it in races and workouts I have been not taking it fully to the red line because i want to be able to keep training and build a big base. Races have been mostly motivation to run another 5 weeks until the next one. As it has been mentioned they are likely slower than my 100% all out, bring on death to put me out of this misery efforts, but I am going to go my hardest yet this year at my 10 mile in October. Aiming for sub 60 min but going to start my pace aiming for 59:00. Miles 4-7 are one long up hill. It is a net +50 ft course with 2 other moderate hills in first 4 miles.
I tried to run the last 2 days slower and I'm actually kind of sore because I was taking way more steps and in changed my stride some. I am starting with a coach after the 10 mile so I will likely have some more guidance on pace, cadence, form etc going forward.
Also the weeks I have run fast I was also running no workouts at all, next week I will start workouts again which will likely slow my easy days down back to the 7:20 range as my legs will be tired. After my 2 races (half and 10k) I wanted to get some milage in without workouts. I was running with my watch but turned off the pacing beyond my mile pace at the end of each mile. That is the pace I ended up at not looking at my watch at all, just by feel.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Mark - That is a pretty great picture! I have one of those shirts in red on its way (already have one in orange) to me from England right now, actually (somehow less expensive than buying direct, and I can't find them locally).
Flavio - I have done one of their plans before (full and half marathon), and may again. Outside of more rep and Interval work in the early weeks, they had a lot of Threshold and M-effort workouts in common.
Watson - The marathon is still kinda up in the air, though I'm leaning towards running it. One reason I didn't target an earlier fall marathon was so that I could try running a 5k/10 all-out around Thanksgiving through the end of the year. Even if I do decide to run that marathon I'll probably try burning down a local turkey trot.
DPS - I set up my HR zones by HRR (heart rate reserve) - it's more individualized than setting up zones based only on a percentage of HR since the calculations are done based on the actual range of HR you have. Here's how I'd set up your zones according to this (garmin will let you do this automatically in your watch or in your watch settings online):Z1 118 - 131Z2 132 - 145Z3 146 - 159Z4 160 - 173Z5 173 +Quite a bit of difference than your current zones setup. Do with this what you will. Anything in particular you're working with the coach for? Targeting something specific, wanting general guidance, or what?
JMac - yeah, tentative plan is Christchurch Marathon next year (31 May). The other options are Rotorua in early May (a few hills, but it's also NZ Marathon Champs 2020 and it's a very famous course), or Gold Coast in July (risk of warm temps, but big event). My current FM PB just isn't anywhere near reflective of my potential as an athlete and that doesn't sit well with me. That's why I'm leaning towards Christchurch - it's a quick course, cool temps are a given, and the weather can't possibly be as bad as this year's event haha. I still need to have a chat with my coach and confirm I'm really up for it, but it's probably 80% likely.
DPS - if you've tried to run slow and it's felt un-natural, that's probably too slow (it has it's own set of injury risks because you end up changing your stride and footfall). If you have a naturally high cadence, then trying to slow down too much just won't work. When I first started out, I used HR zones a lot to get the effort right on easy runs (and workouts). Now I can pace myself by feel pretty well without the HR because I know what 'easy', 'moderate' and 'hard' should feel like. But I still use HR zones as a guide, pretty much on the same basis as Keen described above.
One of the best guides I got was actually that easy pace = you should be able to comfortably hold a conversation. Moderate pace is more like one sentence at a time, and by the time you're into harder efforts you'd probably struggle to get a full sentence out - more like a few words at a time. That holds as true for me now as when I started out.
Keen - I do most of my training in those shirts in summer now and wouldn't wear anything else for a summer race. They're so good in warmer temps. That particular day was around 20C / 70F and close to 100% humidity by the time the race finished. There's a very cool blue camo one on the NZ 2XU site that I'm considering getting.