Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2019 (Read 624 times)

JMac11


Benevolent Leader

    DPS - I just caught this, you want to run an indoor 5K in VF? I think that would be a mistake. First, 5Ks are faster, so they are harder on your ankles to turn. Second, wouldn't you be running on a 200 meter track if it's indoors? If so, that makes the turns lightening fast. The only way I would do that is if I was running at the Armory where they have the banked track.

     

    kimba - you're still in base building mode right? If so, I wouldn't add any track workouts yet, way too hard on your body. I would follow the advice I gave cfarr: try a 20 minute tempo (with a proper warmup and cooldown) during your buildup, run at a pace you could hold for 60 minutes in a race (lots of calculators out there will do this for you). It's a good workout to get back into the running fast mode, without breaking down your body too much.

     

    Once you want to really start training, 200/400 meter repeats at mile pace are a great way to start building your speed up.

     

    Mark: I hope it's an inverse relationship. This has been far and away my best cycle ever (will detail soon), so I'm really excited what I can do out there. There's something about putting up a sub 3:45 KM pace for a marathon that really scares me, but that's exactly why you do the workouts: to prove to yourself that your body can actually do it.

    5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: TBD

    dpschumacher


      Yea. It will be a slow 5k so maybe breaking them in. They runn it in lane 5 and 6 to save on the legs on a legit college indoor track.

      2019 Goal: Run every day

      2019 Goal: Get to 165 lbs

      2019 Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

      Marky_Mark_17


        I'd have no issues running an outdoor 5k in the VF's.  It'll be faster than the 10k I just ran, but not enough faster that turning would be a concern.  It's more a question for me of whether they'll be faster than spikes or not.  But an indoor 5k on a shorter track... might be a bit different (although having never run on an indoor track I can't really comment).

        5,000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

        HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

        Last race: Kerikeri Half Marathon, 23 Nov, 1:10:46 (PB)

        Up next: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 20 Dec

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        watsonc123


          I also think you take the cake for the most built to run. I think Keen is in second, and then me. Funny that Mark isn't on there and still smokes us.

           

           

          I am pretty similar to Keen and you.  5'11 and 145-150 range.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 20:34 (Jan 2019), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

           

          2019 aims: Unlike 2017 & 2018, be consistent.  So get 40+ weeks of 40+ miles incl. two quality sessions (5 weeks achieved so far).

          JamesD


          JamesD

            Got the arm warmers & tried them today on a short run.  The weather was conveniently bad - 42/5 with 15mph wind gusting to 30 and occasional raindrops.  Even the small size slid down my spaghetti-like arms some, but DW has some two-sided tape that makes sure various garments and body parts stay in their respective places, so I'll try that Thursday.  For now, the plan is to warm up in a thin vest over whatever top I wear, with the armwarmers, gloves, a beanie, a neckwarmer, & tights. As the pre-race ceremony winds down, I'll give DW the neckwarmer & maybe the vest, or I might keep the vest for the first mile (or 7?) and give it to her then.

             

            I took off the vest near the end of my run and ran in just a short-sleeved shirt for a few hundred yards, and it still seemed cold, since my short-sleeved shirts are all very thin.  I'm going to try on Thursday wearing no vest & a slightly thicker long-sleeved shirt with the armwarmers, maybe under the armwarmers to prevent the sleeves from being open at the wrists.  (I'm not worried about looks.)  Has anyone tried this?  Seems like if my my core gets too warm, I can just roll off the armwarmers and give them to DW, and that might prevent me from needing the vest.

            Post-1987 PRs:  5K 19:12 (2017); 10K 39:35 (Sept '19); Half 1:30:14 (March '19)

            2019 Goals: NO INJURIES, 30+ mpw (ok so far), Half<1:30 (almost), 10K<40 (yes), 5K<19 (no)

            kimba


              JMac - yes, still in base.  I guess.  So, I had been building base since June, was consistent until end of August, then no running in September due to tibial stress reaction.  I was doing hard pool running through September, in addition to long stints on stationary bike.  So I didn’t have a long lay off from running and I was still very active throughout.  I started building the running miles again starting late September/early October.  So I kind of feel like my base is adequate?  On the other hand, I’m not looking for any real racing for quite awhile, so there probably isn’t any reason to rush it.  What do you all think?  

              On a different note - I’ve alluded to questioning the appropriateness of the club workouts to my training.  Well, I had another instance yesterday that leaves me frustrated.  The club offers a group tempo 2x/month.  I personally struggle with tempos so like to take advantage of the power of the group.  I went yesterday and got pulled through 2.5 miles at 6:55 pace.  I wasn’t dying, but it was certainly too fast to qualify for a tempo effort at my current fitness level.  But there was no other group appropriate for me to run with.  Afterward the coach said, “well that’s probably a little too fast, but it’s good for you.”  Is he right?  Is it good for me to work a little too hard sometimes, or would I have been better off just doing my own, slower, tempo run?

              800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013) 

               

              flavio1980


              weight loss complainer

                Kimba - you're better on your own, at least until you can match that pace. You're just starting to add back speed into your training. You should probably be doing strides by now, followed by cruise intervals (i.e. tempos with jogging breaks), low volume intervals (like 12x400).

                That herd mentality is bad for you, especially with your injury history.

                PRs: 1500m 4:54.1 3K 10:34 5K 18:05 HM 1:24:25 - Up next: Chase the HM PR

                JMac11


                Benevolent Leader

                  Any coach who tells you that running faster than your ability is "good" for you should no longer be your coach. There's something about pushing yourself in a group that you couldn't do otherwise, which is important, but it's not about running your races in your workouts. I'd also say it's especially important right now when you're just getting back into workouts and you're injury prone. There are a lot of us on this board that are injury prone. For myself, the biggest driver of injuries is running too fast on easy runs or pushing my workouts too much. Once I learned to slow down on easy days and to run my workout paces as upper limits rather than floors, I've been much better about controlling my injuries.

                   

                  James - I ran with a light long sleeve shirt for the NYC Half this year, with arm warmers underneath them. The weather was low 30's, sunny, light headwind. I knew that my core would be good in a light long sleeve running at HMP, but my arms would be frozen. So I was able to throw on arm warmers underneath the light long sleeve and get the best of both worlds.

                  5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: TBD

                  kimba


                    I appreciate the responses.  It’s hard for me to step back and be objective because he’s been my only coach.  I appreciate learning from the experience of others.

                    800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013) 

                     

                    JMac11


                    Benevolent Leader

                      Yep, that's a tough one. Just to elaborate more on the pushing yourself: I had a good example of where it's needed personally just this past cycle. I often run based on "feel" but I've sort of forgotten what marathon pace feels like. So I went out for a run at marathon pace a few weeks ago and my first 2 miles weren't even close to what I thought my MP should be (about 30 seconds too slow). So I really needed to actively push myself to run faster to get closer to that pace. Once I did, I was actually completely fine and the workout went well. I reminded myself of this during my MP workout this weekend: told myself it's going to feel too hard to start, but then you'll be completely fine once you're 3 miles in. That's exactly what happened: The first 2 miles felt hard, but the middle section all felt like I was running fairly easily.

                       

                      The point is that we all need some pushing sometimes to reach our potential. But if your current Lactate Threshold pace is 7:30 and you're out there doing sub 7 miles, this is not a case of pushing. That's a case of you running a tempo run closer to your 5K pace, i.e. racing during training.

                      5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: TBD

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        My most common injury timing is when adding speed back into my training.  Followed closely by getting fitter and not paying enough attention to my easy pace, and going too hard.

                         

                        I agree with JMac - you don't want a coach like that.  Or maybe, talk to him and get his opinion but then make your own final training decisions.  You know your body better than a coach does.

                         

                        I added 2km of tempo into my run last night, a week ahead of schedule, and I plan to stick to a slow progression of tempo blocks/intervals before adding any VO2 max intervals.  Luckily I have plenty of time so no need to rush (which I tried a couple of times this time last year and ended up not able to race anyway).  The 2km was at an average of about 4:13/km (6:45/mile) and felt comfortable into a strong breeze, so I might be getting back to fitness quicker than I thought I was - I've had a long term mindset and been telling myself I'm out of shape for the last 2 months since I started back after the lay off but it might be time to start being a bit more positive.

                        PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                        Recent Races:  South Island Half-Marathon 2018 1:32.39 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                        2020 Planned Races:  Christchurch 10km Series (Park), February 2, Christchurch Half-Marathon May 31, South Island Half-Marathon August 2

                        JMac11


                        Benevolent Leader

                          Steve - I wouldn't sweat about VO2 max, even though you stated you thought they went well. I find that those take a LONG time to come back. After base building, you often run workouts and go wow, I haven't gained ANYTHING in that base, but it's sitting there, waiting to be utilized. Having gone through this cycle a lot, I can tell you that it will take you about 3-4 weeks of good work before you start seeing improvement, and you should peak in about 12 weeks or so. Keep at it, you'll see improvements.

                           

                          Kimba - this forum talks a LOT about easy pace, because we have people all over the damn place when it comes to that pace in reference to their half marathon pace. DPS right now is probably at the top (but he's not running real workouts, so it's hard to compare), followed by Mark. I think I'm on the slow end. Given your injury history, you may want to try the slower approach. I went from running my easy runs around HMP+75 or so to HMP+120. I've had two things happen: my weekly mileage is at its highest level ever and I'm in the best shape of my life. I feel it's been a good case study for myself that slowing down your easy days can really reap rewards. Again though, this is all individual, but as someone who has injuries, you may see big benefits.

                           

                          Besides being the benevolent leader of this thread, I'm also now the main preacher of slow easy runs 

                          5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: TBD

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Yep, that's a tough one. Just to elaborate more on the pushing yourself: I had a good example of where it's needed personally just this past cycle. I often run based on "feel" but I've sort of forgotten what marathon pace feels like. So I went out for a run at marathon pace a few weeks ago and my first 2 miles weren't even close to what I thought my MP should be (about 30 seconds too slow). So I really needed to actively push myself to run faster to get closer to that pace. Once I did, I was actually completely fine and the workout went well. I reminded myself of this during my MP workout this weekend: told myself it's going to feel too hard to start, but then you'll be completely fine once you're 3 miles in. That's exactly what happened: The first 2 miles felt hard, but the middle section all felt like I was running fairly easily.

                             

                            The point is that we all need some pushing sometimes to reach our potential. But if your current Lactate Threshold pace is 7:30 and you're out there doing sub 7 miles, this is not a case of pushing. That's a case of you running a tempo run closer to your 5K pace, i.e. racing during training.

                             

                            Kimba - completely agree with what JMac says here.  I've had times this cycle where I had to remember what it was to push myself, and where workouts felt really hard, but there were never any workouts in there that were over the top in that regard.

                            5,000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                            HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                            Last race: Kerikeri Half Marathon, 23 Nov, 1:10:46 (PB)

                            Up next: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 20 Dec

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            SteveChCh


                            Hot Weather Complainer

                              Thanks JMac I think you're right.  To be honest, I can't be downhearted, it's come back quicker than I expected (maybe all that torture on the stationary bike helped).  I'm looking at a 10km on February 2 which I thought I may run as a tempo but I also may race it depending on the shape I'm in.  So that should tie in well with your 12 week timeline.  I also have only done a 10km race once, and that was when I was sick as a dog for a week so downgraded from the half.  I suffered badly and finished in 44 mins - so there's a very soft PR to be beaten.

                              PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                              Recent Races:  South Island Half-Marathon 2018 1:32.39 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                              2020 Planned Races:  Christchurch 10km Series (Park), February 2, Christchurch Half-Marathon May 31, South Island Half-Marathon August 2

                              kimba


                                Steve, JMac, Mark, and flavio -

                                Thanks for your helpful responses.  I definitely agree with all of you.  When I was first with this coach (2008) I didn't question him at all;  I had never been coached in running and didn't know better.  And I got some pretty decent race times.  As I've grown in the sport and done some of my own research on training methods, I've questioned him and tried to figure out my own training.  This was the result both of what I read and learned and what I felt;  I felt I wasn't maximizing my potential;  I felt as though he was good at getting an athlete from X to Z, but wasn't good at getting from A to W.  Like, if he had someone with a modicum of talent, he could pull out a good race, but had no idea how to maintain and/or develop an athlete over time.  Does that make sense?  He was training me when I ran 18:32 but I've never been able to do that since.  I think it's because with his training the aerobic base is neglected and degrades.  He's all about going fast.

                                 

                                Over the years I've had stints where I try to do some training on my own, then just come back to the club because it's easy and I have no validation that my training thoughts are appropriate.  I've been with him long enough now that I can definitely talk to him about things and then change it up as long as I have a rationale to support my thinking.  Without a rationale, I'm susceptible to his suggestions -- again, because it's easy and with the club there is always a group to run with.   You guys are helping me bolster my rationale and have more confidence in following my instincts.

                                 

                                I hate thinking of myself as injury prone; I pride myself on my strength and knowledge.  Before this year I hadn't been injured since 2012, so it's easy for me to fall into the trap of thinking I'm "invincible" - but I'm almost 45 years old and have a lot more years of running under my belt now versus 7 years ago, so injuries are inevitable;  plus, I'm a runner, so that makes injuries even more inevitable!  As I get older, I need to get smarter; that's the only way to evade injury.  I'd rather run for eternity than flame out.

                                 

                                I spoke to my coach today and told him that I was annoyed by the pace I ran yesterday and that since I'm not in a hurry to race, I probably won't be coming to the group work-outs for awhile.  I need to work on building my base with intelligence rather than falling into "the herd" mentality and getting bamboozled by speed goggles.  Though he didn't vehemently argue with me, he did say that I would be more fit the next time the group did a tempo run in 2 weeks and that I could probably handle it easier then .  I'm not planning to return.  I'm planning to pull out my copy of Daniels and also ask you guys for advice - is that okay????

                                800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013)