Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2019 (Read 638 times)

SteveChCh


Hot Weather Complainer

    I like the idea of having different PR categories.  My PR is in ChCh which is a great course (on a nice day which it was).  If I did a race in the middle of summer I'm adding a hot weather PR category because realistically they're 2 completely different races.  It's an individual thing so, I'm not going to tell Mark he can't count a 1:11 - I'd be shouting it from the rooftops.  I have thought sometimes a smaller race might not count or feel cheaper because you probably don't run a few hundred metres long.  I've changed my mind on that though, 21.1km is 21.1km.

    PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

    Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

    2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

    kimba


       

       Regarding Daniels - I’m a big fan of his books as well and have all three editions of DRF.  I like the 2nd edition the best, find the 3rd edition to be a bit bloated.  There are also some things that don’t appear in all three editions.  For example, in the earlier editions he mentions that many of the plans are based on T-pace of 5 MPM and that you should adjust the T distances to go for an equivalent time.  

       

      What does MPM mean?

      800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013) 

       

      kimba


         

        James - forgot to add: you are dealing with stitches it sounds like, which is my number 1 enemy in races. Have not run a single race without getting them at some point. My 2018 NYC marathon, they started around mile 8 and last the rest of the race! The breathing techniques you mentioned do work, but sometimes you just need to deeply massage it. And sometimes, that doesn't work at all, and you just have to deal with it.

         

        Something I've tried with some success with cramps is to try to put the muscle on slack and apply pressure, a technique similar to strain counter strain in physical therapy.  So, if we assume "the side stitch" is really a spasm of the diaphragm, which is really just a big dome of muscle, then we want to get that muscle into its most relaxed position and press on it.  For the diaphragm the most relaxed position is when you're exhaling.  Maybe exhaling forcefully allows it to relax a little more (I don't know this, just speculating).  I do know, however, that it attaches to the rib cage.  So, when I have a side stitch I find that bending toward the side of the stitch to put it on slack,  and pressing hard up under my ribs (into the actual diaphragm) while trying to breathe deeply can be helpful.  It's hard to do while running, but might be worth a try.

        800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013) 

         

        Marky_Mark_17


          I realize that we're all just hobby joggers, so it doesn't really matter.  But I wouldn't count it as a PR (assuming I actually ran fast enough).


          If it’s 20-30 seconds, sure. 

          If it’s a 2-minute plus PR, I reckon anyone on here would claim it.

          5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

          HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

          Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

          Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          JMac11


          Taper Czar



            If it’s a 2-minute plus PR, I reckon anyone on here would claim it.

             

            I'm sorry Mark, but if I ran a 2 minute PR on that course, that would make me even less likely to claim it than a 20 second PR. It would demonstrate how much easier it is than a normal course. There are a bunch of people over on sub 3 who have run downhill halfs and nobody counts it. It's even worse for mile races: I know darkwave has some absurd time on a downhill mile.

             

            Again, Watson put it perfectly - we're all just hobby joggers, and nobody is going to care about your PRs in your old days except yourself. If you want to claim a 1:10:XX after you run that this weekend, go ahead. It's the same exact thing with short courses. I hold myself to perhaps a standard that is too rigid for a hobby jogger, but you saw in my race report that I literally went on the USATF website the night before my half to make sure I ran the certified course, not the course the measurers threw out there. I stayed to the right of the center line even though nobody else was doing it. I didn't want to run a PR on a course that wasn't something I considered to be legit.

             

            Your "legit" standard though is something you have to think about. But claiming "anyone on here would claim it" is just not true.

             

            I'll leave this topic at this point because I just want to challenge you to really think about it. This forum really is about supporting each other when we're down and out or when we're reaching new highs, but I think it's important to debate this kind of stuff from time to time, otherwise it's just "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. But if you come out of this saying "nope, I still feel good about it," then that's all that matters.

            5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

              Kimba - miles per minute. If you're slower than 6 minutes per mile for T pace, I recommend changing all of his mileage in his books to minutes based off of 5 minutes per mile, which he says in the 2nd edition. Put another way, if you see 3T, you should run 15 minutes at T pace.

               

              I also agree with your stitch recommendation. It generally works for me on normal quality days where I'm pushing myself, but once it's race day and I'm really straining, sometimes nothing will work.

              5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                A darkwave mention...hopefully this means we get a drop in.

                 

                This is a tricky topic.  Vapor Flies have changed running, does a PR for hobby joggers in those count?  If helpful shoes are okay, why not a helpful course?  What if a magic legal supplement came out and boosted our times by a few minutes?  I know it's not the same but interesting to think about.

                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

                2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

                kimba


                  Kimba - miles per minute. If you're slower than 6 minutes per mile for T pace, I recommend changing all of his mileage in his books to minutes based off of 5 minutes per mile, which he says in the 2nd edition. Put another way, if you see 3T, you should run 15 minutes at T pace.

                   

                  I also agree with your stitch recommendation. It generally works for me on normal quality days where I'm pushing myself, but once it's race day and I'm really straining, sometimes nothing will work.

                  Gotcha.  Thanks.    He sort of alludes to this in the 3rd edition, but doesn’t fully explain it.  I think I just sort of “got it” due to having also read the 2nd edition.

                  800m:  2:20.3 (2015) | 1 Mile:  5:13 (2016) | 5K: 18:32 (2010) | 10km: 39:55 (2012) HM: 1:28 (2013) 

                   

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    I'll leave this topic at this point because I just want to challenge you to really think about it. This forum really is about supporting each other when we're down and out or when we're reaching new highs, but I think it's important to debate this kind of stuff from time to time, otherwise it's just "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. But if you come out of this saying "nope, I still feel good about it," then that's all that matters.

                     

                    If I come out of the race feeling that I absolutely nailed it, I'd be more inclined to claim it (assuming I ran a PR - once again, I've still got to run the race).

                     

                    Why?  Well, PR's are all about celebrating those races where we've done the absolute best we could, executed the race to the best of our ability, left everything out there and came through with a great result (and probably had a bunch of other things fall into place too like weather).  For me there's also the backdrop of the personal challenges this year (acknowledging that others on here have had a tougher time, but it's certainly not been smooth sailing for me).  If I run my best race on a notoriously quick course, then the time will be what it will be.  If I run a crappy race and come away with a 5-second PR on this course I'm probably much less inclined to claim it.  I'll see how I feel after the race!

                     

                    I also liked Steve's comment where you might individually flag different types of PR, although my personal approach to this would be to nominate a 'best race' - this may or may not be a PR but it's a race where you know, as an athlete, that this was your best performance.

                    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                    HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                    Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                    Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    dpschumacher


                    Making a comeback

                      I agree with the olympic rules for PRs except for marathon....then I use, is it a Boston Qualifier.

                       

                      My 2 cents. I don't worry about vaperfly PR's cause either they will be banned or every brand will have them by the US trials/2020 olympics and that will put an end to that debate until something else revolutionary comes in 5 years or 10 years. There is a 0% chance that if they are legal New Balance (already has 5280), Adidas, sacony, etc won't have something to compete with nike and hoka. The competitive balance worries plus marketing opportunities are too big for them not to already have shoes in very late phase testing right now.

                      2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                      2020 Goals:

                      5k:16:30

                      HM: 1:18:00

                      Marathon: 2:45:00

                      New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                      JamesD


                      JamesD

                         

                        Something I've tried with some success with cramps is to try to put the muscle on slack and apply pressure, a technique similar to strain counter strain in physical therapy.  So, if we assume "the side stitch" is really a spasm of the diaphragm, which is really just a big dome of muscle, then we want to get that muscle into its most relaxed position and press on it.  For the diaphragm the most relaxed position is when you're exhaling.  Maybe exhaling forcefully allows it to relax a little more (I don't know this, just speculating).  I do know, however, that it attaches to the rib cage.  So, when I have a side stitch I find that bending toward the side of the stitch to put it on slack,  and pressing hard up under my ribs (into the actual diaphragm) while trying to breathe deeply can be helpful.  It's hard to do while running, but might be worth a try.

                         

                        Thanks, Kim, I'll save this for future use, ideally on a training run.  For what it's worth, the lower left side cramp I had Saturday felt very different from my typical upper right side cramp - much deeper inside of me, while the upper right side one always feels very close to the skin and almost like it's touching the bottom of my rib cage.

                        Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                        Revised 2020 Goals:  40+ mpw (getting there), 5K<19:30 (not yet); Mile<5:40 (done), no injuries

                        watsonc123


                          Re vaporfly's, I will be surprised if they are banned. I am surprised how slow the other makers are about releasing their own.

                          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                           

                          40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                          JamesD


                          JamesD

                            Re vaporfly's, I will be surprised if they are banned. I am surprised how slow the other makers are about releasing their own.

                             

                            I've read that Nike's patent on the curve of the plate is the issue - that other companies can make basically similar shoes for the prototypes their elites wear, but they can't sell them to the public without getting sued for patent infringement. 

                            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                            Revised 2020 Goals:  40+ mpw (getting there), 5K<19:30 (not yet); Mile<5:40 (done), no injuries

                            CommanderKeen


                            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                              JMac - 72 mpw average for a cycle is nothing to sneeze at! This just been an awesome cycle for me so far, which I'm frankly thrilled with - easily the best I've ever had no matter how you look at it.


                              Mark - I'll let you know just as soon as I book my ticket!


                              Kimba - I keep wanting to answer your Daniels-related questions but JMac keeps beating me to it! I usually do my T work in minutes because it makes it easy to calculate recovery (20 min T gets 4 min rest, 15 min T gets 3 min, etc.). Sometimes I'll do it by miles, though, if I'm doing the workout on a very flat surface on which pace will be very predictable. This lets me more easily do the math on what 4:1 recovery would be for a 6:20 mile.


                              Steve - I don't know if just a mention is enough to get DWave to come out of lurk mode here. Usually it takes some sketchy, borderline-pervy comment to do that.

                              5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                               

                              Upcoming Races (?):

                              8/29 Moore War 5k

                              9/5 - Tunnel to Towers 5k

                              9/27 - Run Elk City 5k

                              10/4 - Wurst Race Half

                              10/18 - Hot Chocolate 15k (Pacing)

                              11/21 - White River Marathon

                               

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 


                                Steve - I don't know if just a mention is enough to get DWave to come out of lurk mode here. Usually it takes some sketchy, borderline-pervy comment to do that.

                                 

                                legitimacy of PRs....borderline pervy….same difference, amirite?

                                 

                                So....for myself, I follow the same rule as Jmac - if it's a certfied course that was set accurately, and has a net drop of 3.25 meters per KM or less (the OTQ standard in the US) then I count it.    The mile that JMac is referencing had a net drop of 27.35 meters per KM - I ran 5:08 with a 71 second first quarter....I'm not capable of running 400m in 71 seconds on the track.....

                                 

                                I have to admit, I get a bit eye-rolly when people claim PRs on courses with severe net drops.  And even more eye-rolly when people claim PRs on short courses or based on Garmin measurements.  OTOH, I have no issue counting a PR that was run on a point-to-point course with a tailwind, or with Vaporflies, or with the use of caffeinated gels.  There are others who would disagree with me on that.  I have one friend who will not count any PR of 10K or shorter unless it was run on a track.

                                 

                                Here's the conundrum.  On the one hand, PRs are personal, so we each should be able to set our own criteria for what counts.  However, racing is also by its nature a comparative sport - we measure ourselves against each other (we run "races" not joint time trials).  And if you are going to compare PRs, it's good to have some standard for what does count as a PR, so as to compare apples to apples.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.