Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2019 (Read 368 times)

JMac11


    There it is. I hope you searched for "marathon ding dong" and that's what you got.

    5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

     

    Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

      No I went for the " guy finishing marathon with junk hanging out " approach 

      50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

      10k 40:16 June 18

      " I have a plan to make my legs longer by wearing shorter shorts "      

       

      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        Watson - Awesome about your girls!


        Piwi - No way am I clicking on that link! Without looking it's probably the type of thing that will get DWave to awkwardly un-lurk for a bit.
        Good job on the hill sprints. I need to do all-out hill sprints occasionally instead of the ~mile effort repeats I've been doing.


        Solid interval workout this morning, which I needed. My dirt roads are all still muddy from the massive amounts of rain we've been getting the last couple weeks, so it was all on paved roads (rolling hills). Funny enough, I ran the exact same route Saturday as a "long run" and felt fatigued almost the entire way for that one but felt really good today. Weird.

        5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

        Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

        Wurst Race Half 10/5

        cc4life07


        Wind is not my friend.

          Watson - Awesome about your girls doing so well!  Great report on your XC race.  I don't do any trail running really anymore (nothing in my area) but everytime I coach an XC race, I remember those types of races fondly!

           

          JMac - I'm looking to create a Daniels plan for my next half so I may have to run it by you.  Do you find the pacing is spot on for tempos, easy runs, etc?

           

          Keen - First, love the name.  Remember the good ol' days.  No costumes for me yet for over 20 5K's.  There was a point a couple years ago where I was close though!

           

          Staying busy with teaching, etc. and getting my shorter runs in at night.  Biding my time 'til the race in a week and a half.  Not sure how I want to attempt to pace it yet!

          "Current" PRs

          5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:25:03 (10/12)

          CommanderKeen


          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

            Ben - Thanks! You're the second person on this board to notice that - I think DWave came across it in a book on gaming a while back.
            I know you didn't ask me, but I did Daniels all last year and for me (and most people I've talked to) the paces are pretty spot on with the exception of Marathon pace, which is "optimistic" unless you've been putting in 80+mpw for years. The upper range for Easy pace may be a bit fast as well, but I always saw that as more of a "do not exceed" rather than a target.

            JMac may have different input.

            5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

             

            Upcoming Races:

            Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

            Wurst Race Half 10/5

            JMac11


              CC - if you're using his 3rd edition, I'd say the following are things I would follow:

               

              1. His easy pace is generally considered too fast, at least on the high end. To give you an example, I'm a 62 VDOT, which has his easy pace from 6:39 to 7:33. 6:39 is not easy pace for me (MP for me is 6:15), unless I haven't run for 4 straight days and am feeling in beast mode. So definitely keep it on the slower end. If you compare to your half pace, I'd cap my easy pace around HMP+75 seconds, but would let it drift as slow as HMP+120 depending on conditions and how I feel. There's a camp that you can't go slow enough with easy pace
              2. T pace for him is spot on if you calculate your VDOT using either a recent 10K or HMP time. 
              3. His I pace can be very difficult to hit (VO2 max) unless you've been really training at it. It takes me a few sessions before I can approach it
              4. Nobody can hit his M pace given their HMP. I'd say add 10 seconds to his M pace. 
              5. Set your VDOTs off of race times around those paces, i.e. use your HMP to set VDOT for T pace, but use your 5K times to set VDOTs for I pace, if they're not in line with what his calculator says they should be.

              Overall, I would say the thing about Daniels is that you should view all of his paces as caps, not must hits. If you are running your tempo runs at T+10 seconds and are finding it difficult, don't speed up to T pace just to hit his pace. However, do slow down if you find yourself creeping faster than T-5 seconds. Daniels entire approach is "don't work harder than you have to"

               

              FYI, Keen is a former Daniels aficionado, but I think he's cheating on the ole bastard now with someone else.

              5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

               

              Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

              cc4life07


              Wind is not my friend.

                Good to hear. I don’t know if it’s my races or my lack of workouts right now but the E pace is usually easy to hit. I actually sometimes go faster than the fast end.  Definitely going to be going to the appropriate paces though as I build mileage base and add workouts.

                 

                Thanks for the insight and I’ll definitely be checking in when I get the plan rolling.

                "Current" PRs

                5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:25:03 (10/12)

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  JMac - There's not really a "former" to it - I still like Daniels and follow the principals, but use power instead of pace.
                  Daniels does essentially require races to base workout paces on, then will have a couple VDOT bumps built in to a plan that may be before or after a person is ready for it, and what if you don't improve by the same amount in all your paces?
                  The power-based platform I'm experimenting with recalculates things if you ever exceed what it thinks you're capable of based on your history (think a possible VDOT update after any given workout), and if you take time off completely or only do easy runs for a while it will "decay" things and give lower targets for each intensity.
                  I can do Daniels-style workouts if I want, but just sub in the appropriate power-based targets instead of pace ones. It works really well on hills. That said, I have recently developed a like for "critical velocity/effort" intervals that are between T and 10k pace, which is very not Daniels.

                  5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                  Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                  Wurst Race Half 10/5

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    Ben - Thanks! You're the second person on this board to notice that - I think DWave came across it in a book on gaming a while back.

                     

                    *cough* *third* *cough*

                     

                    It's funny to think the team that made those games then went on to make Doom.

                    5000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 5km: 16:24 (Nov-18) | 10km: 34:08 (Sep-18) HM: 1:14:42 (Apr-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                    Last race: Waterfront Half Marathon, 14 Apr, 1:14:42 (PR)

                    Up next: Christchurch Half Marathon, 2 Jun

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Glad to see the old forum back on track (Piwi, I did make the mistake of looking at the link, which is hilarious and horrendous at the same time...

                      This week I am recovering and giving back some time to my wife (who is now abroad with her sisters, so I am with the kids and, considering some work I need to get done, I do not have much time to run. I will get back into it next week and will decide whether to run a half marathon on the 19th of June... a bit soon, but it will depend on how the body gets back after the marathon right Smile

                       

                      I have a question, I have read a lot about Daniels plans and I would like to see what you are discussing. is it a book ? would you point that out to me? I am looking for something to add to my advanced marathoning reading Smile

                       

                      Marco

                      PRs since re-started in 2013:

                      5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                      HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                       

                      Upcoming races:  

                      HM in summer (Lisburn maybe?) and then in September. (Belfast). Looking for a 10 K as well. 

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Whoops, sorry Mark! They also made Duke Nukem. There are some Keen cameos in those games (and others). All of a sudden I'm feeling a wave of nostalgia, and a need to fire up an emulator...


                        Marco - Daniels has a book, Daniels' Running Formula (I think I have the 3rd edition), and a website (they'll write plans for you based on the book). There's a bit of a learning curve, mostly around his abbreviations for paces/effort levels. Workouts can look like they're in code until you get that figured out. I'm certainly a fan of his methods - all of the PRs in my signature came while using his plans.

                        5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                        Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                        Wurst Race Half 10/5

                        JMac11


                          I will say this about Daniels - he is a recipe for disaster if you just follow his plans to a tee. You HAVE to read the book, then re-read the book, then look at the plans. I have not once just followed one of his plans blindly, mainly because life/injuries always get in the way. If you don't know what you're doing, you won't adjust the plan appropriately and will be set up for failure.

                           

                          I would recommend reading Pfitz's Advanced Marathoning if you haven't read anything. I find it's a bit more introductory than Daniels.

                          5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 


                          Glute Force

                            Marco: I think Flavio has a spreadsheet that lets you calculate the Daniels paces (and much more).

                             

                            I used it twice and got injured. But I was much fitter than nowadays. Anyways I gave up on Jack Daniels. I think he is a massive jerk.

                              Keen nice VO2MAX workout. Pfitz has a 3x1600 at 5k pace which I must have done twice in 2013 and 2014. Go ahead and click on that link its hilarious.

                              Dark wave will have it bookmarked I guarantee 

                               

                              Mick I take it you don't like Jack Daniels then 

                               

                              I've only ever read one book Pfitz Advanced Marathoning and done the 18/70 plan which seemed to work. Like Jmac says you have to adjust to your own needs ie age, work, family, illness, injury etc.

                               

                              Cc4life your easy pace is probably still a moving target as your mileage and fitness improves quickly. As you have so much potential to run fast it may take a few months to settle into the right paces.

                               

                              I might be missing something with the gaming talk. Is that where Keen got his user name ?

                              50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

                              10k 40:16 June 18

                              " I have a plan to make my legs longer by wearing shorter shorts "      

                               

                              cc4life07


                              Wind is not my friend.

                                Commander keen was amazing but I’m glad you brought up Duke Nukem. Used to play that game as one of my first LAN multiplayers.  Because of that, played it over Doom.  Although if we are really talking old school computer, I never got enough Command and Conquer.

                                 

                                I think my easy pace will adjust better when my legs are more tired from workouts and mileage. I’m just concerned on how to approach this race. Flat half and my PR is 1:25 but less training and that was 2012. I was thinking about going for 1:22 but afraid of what happened by first half (such a newbie) when I went out at that pace, got a stitch and crashed to 1:31.

                                "Current" PRs

                                5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:25:03 (10/12)