Alberto Salazar Hit With Doping Ban (Read 272 times)

dpschumacher


    Same as my dad... senior for Wisconsin when he was a frosh at Oregon.  He wrote of Salzar after the propublica reports.

     

    My own running coach is directly familiar with Salazar - they both ran professionally in the same era.  My coach has been a very happy man the last few days.

    2019 Goal: Run every day

    2019 Goal: Get to 165 lbs

    2019 Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

      In my interactions with him when I was in Eugene he didn't come across as a dick, just serious. Not a lot of chit-chat on long group runs. Not much of a sense of humor, at least not with the running crowd. I rarely saw him outside of that circle. I haven't been around him in 30 years, and people change. I know there are a few Nike execs who are agro nutcases and very territorial and threatening concerning athletes, maybe that culture prevails at the Nike campus.

      55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

      Brewing Runner


      CIM FanBoi

         

        one of many logic fails, dude

         

        Yeah, I forgot they have to be in specific locations. I mean....no one does an injection in their left shoulder or calves or under their toenails. I should start looking at runners more critically. Screw their personal opinion on body art. It’s a cover up for needle marks. Glad I’m not a professional cuz I’d be a prime target for some accusations of injections.

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

        Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

        *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

         

        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

         

        AmoresPerros


        Options,Account, Forums

          .. For example: Local race doesn't have rules. I CAN put my arms out, or start running Zs and Ws, to block someone from passing me because there isn't anything against it. The race might say I did something "unethical" an award the runner who couldn't pass me. I'm within the rules of racing and it is not MY fault someone got pissed off because they expected me to let them pass for the overall win in a local 5K. Maybe next time they'll think about someone actively trying to block them in a race for that top 3 age group podium finish.

           

          I'm not sure I'm following you here.

           

          It sounds like you're saying that it's not illegal for you to act like an nasty human being, and therefore it's not your fault if people dislike you because you're nasty.

           

          I am not understanding the latter part of that. It seems to me that that is certainly at least partly your fault--you made a deliberate, unethical choice to act nasty.

          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

          Brewing Runner


          CIM FanBoi

            I'm not sure I'm following you here.

             

            It sounds like you're saying that it's not illegal for you to act like an nasty human being, and therefore it's not your fault if people dislike you because you're nasty.

             

            I am not understanding the latter part of that. It seems to me that that is certainly at least partly your fault--you made a deliberate, unethical choice to act nasty.

             

            Yes. It isn't against the rules to run Zs and Ws in front of you when you try to pass me. Unethical to you, but to me it's called racing. You think we should just let people pass each other because they're faster. I think actively blocking is within the rules of racing. Can you find me a rule where the Olympic distance races don't allow blocking, or even taking a turn wider so your competition has to work harder to get around you? There is a reason the 5K and 10K athletes have to pass on the outside and part of it is the runner ahead of them isn't giving them a free lane to pass on the inside.

             

            If it was for 3rd place in the age group and disqualifies me for my actions it isn't against the rules. Someone just didn't think it was right. Just like a 95mL infusion 12 hours and 5 minutes apart. 100% within the rules and it won't prevent people from labeling it unethical.

            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

            Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

            Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

            *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

             

            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

             

               

              Can you find me a rule where....

               

              USATF 2019 Competition Rules

               

              RULE 163
              RUNNING COMPETITION

               

              163.4. Any competitor or participant responsible for jostling, running across, or obstructing another competitor or participant so as to impede his or her progress shall be liable to disqualification in that event.

               

              NOTE: Some factors to be considered when determining a disqualification include safety, equitable competition, severity of the infraction and resulting consequence.

              Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
              We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


              Elite Jogger

                 

                Yes. It isn't against the rules to run Zs and Ws in front of you when you try to pass me. Unethical to you, but to me it's called racing. You think we should just let people pass each other because they're faster. I think actively blocking is within the rules of racing. Can you find me a rule where the Olympic distance races don't allow blocking, or even taking a turn wider so your competition has to work harder to get around you? There is a reason the 5K and 10K athletes have to pass on the outside and part of it is the runner ahead of them isn't giving them a free lane to pass on the inside.

                 

                If it was for 3rd place in the age group and disqualifies me for my actions it isn't against the rules. Someone just didn't think it was right. Just like a 95mL infusion 12 hours and 5 minutes apart. 100% within the rules and it won't prevent people from labeling it unethical.

                 

                This is getting ridiculous....if you want to be a dickhead and try to stop someone faster overtaking you at all costs then.....what can I say?

                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                Brewing Runner


                CIM FanBoi

                   

                  USATF 2019 Competition Rules

                   

                  RULE 163
                  RUNNING COMPETITION

                   

                  163.4. Any competitor or participant responsible for jostling, running across, or obstructing another competitor or participant so as to impede his or her progress shall be liable to disqualification in that event.

                   

                  NOTE: Some factors to be considered when determining a disqualification include safety, equitable competition, severity of the infraction and resulting consequence.

                   

                  All I needed to know.

                   

                  mikkey I'm using it as an example of not being against the actual rules. Just like a 95mL injection at 12 hours and 5 minutes not being against the rules. Some people look at the rules as a list of what you can do. Some look at it as a list of what you can't and if something isn't specifically prohibited it's allowed. I'm sure everyone here thinks I support what Alberto did, and never wants to race aainst me. I'm sure most are faster than me so it's irrelevant.

                  1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                  5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                  10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                  Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                  Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                  Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                  *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                   

                  2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                   

                  runnerswhirled


                     

                    Yeah, I forgot they have to be in specific locations. I mean....no one does an injection in their left shoulder or calves or under their toenails. I should start looking at runners more critically. Screw their personal opinion on body art. It’s a cover up for needle marks. Glad I’m not a professional cuz I’d be a prime target for some accusations of injections.

                     

                    cmon man!  the cat never said every athlete was using tattoos but you're being all snarky saying we need to ban all athletes with tattoos.

                     

                    How many patents did Dr. Brown treat that DIDN'T win gold medals?"

                     

                    what does this even mean?  if they didn't win gold, they couldn't have cheated?

                     

                    this Dr guy faked records so we don't know how much they got and you're using that evidence to prove they didn't cheat.

                     

                    Nike said?  you're using that too?  c'mon man!

                     

                    if you play in the grey you have to be ready for it to swing to the white or black.


                    Elite Jogger

                       

                      All I needed to know.

                       

                      mikkey I'm using it as an example of not being against the actual rules. Just like a 95mL injection at 12 hours and 5 minutes not being against the rules. Some people look at the rules as a list of what you can do. Some look at it as a list of what you can't and if something isn't specifically prohibited it's allowed. I'm sure everyone here thinks I support what Alberto did, and never wants to race aainst me. I'm sure most are faster than me so it's irrelevant.

                       

                      I’ll race against you...just as long as I’m not in the corral behind you. 😂

                      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                      flavio1980


                      weight loss complainer

                        @brewing - I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you advocating for or just stating a fact?

                        I understand your point that absent the law of men, the law of the jungle prevails. That's how humans operate since the dawn of time.

                        That is very prevalent in soccer for instance. Players diving to score breaks in the game or yellow cards against their opponents.

                        Defenders kicking the heels/back of knee of the offensive players when the ref is far away.

                        Players piercing another players' legs by stepping on them with their cleats while they're on the ground injured.

                        It's a nasty part of the sport and it makes watching it a lot less exciting.

                        Other examples outside of sports:

                        - Blasting stupid music at 80 decibels until 9:59:59PM because it's allowed before 10pm

                        - cutting the line to a concert/sports event

                        - pocketing a smartphone that somebody forgot behind because apparently something found was not stolen

                        - Sharing kid porn pictures to a server in a country where there's no specific law against it.

                        - Marrying a 11 yo child and effectively raping her in a country that allows underage marriage

                         

                        These are examples to show that such behaviour must be punished by the powers that be else society slowly descends into mayhem.

                        As much as people tend to be sheep, some people will just fall out of line and seek revenge for themselves.

                         

                        All that said, I think it's possible they caught Salazar with chump change charges because they couldn't find sufficient evidence to convict him of the likely more heinous crimes he did.

                        Just like they locked in Al Capone for tax evasion because they didn't have sufficient evidence to lock him in for all the murders he ordered.

                        PRs: 1500m 4:54.1 3K 10:34 5K 18:05 HM 1:24:25 - Up next: Chase the HM PR

                        Brewing Runner


                        CIM FanBoi

                          @brewing - I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you advocating for or just stating a fact?

                          I understand your point that absent the law of men, the law of the jungle prevails. That's how humans operate since the dawn of time.

                          That is very prevalent in soccer for instance. Players diving to score breaks in the game or yellow cards against their opponents.

                          Defenders kicking the heels/back of knee of the offensive players when the ref is far away.

                          Players piercing another players' legs by stepping on them with their cleats while they're on the ground injured.

                          It's a nasty part of the sport and it makes watching it a lot less exciting.

                          Other examples outside of sports:

                          - Blasting stupid music at 80 decibels until 9:59:59PM because it's allowed before 10pm

                          - cutting the line to a concert/sports event

                          - pocketing a smartphone that somebody forgot behind because apparently something found was not stolen

                          - Sharing kid porn pictures to a server in a country where there's no specific law against it.

                          - Marrying a 11 yo child and effectively raping her in a country that allows underage marriage

                           

                          These are examples to show that such behaviour must be punished by the powers that be else society slowly descends into mayhem.

                          As much as people tend to be sheep, some people will just fall out of line and seek revenge for themselves.

                           

                          All that said, I think it's possible they caught Salazar with chump change charges because they couldn't find sufficient evidence to convict him of the likely more heinous crimes he did.

                          Just like they locked in Al Capone for tax evasion because they didn't have sufficient evidence to lock him in for all the murders he ordered.

                           

                          stating a fact. Everything you stated is also a fact, and happens. I've had neighbors run their music to the last second. I lived with it because they weren't breaking the law. As I said, I'm glad I'm not a professional athlete because tattoos, while allowed, can mean you're hiding your track marks from doping and pushing the limit of legality might as well be cheating because you're doing everything you can to gain an advantage on your competition within the rules and other people just don't like it.

                           

                          JUST like Al Capone. Ron Goldman was at every single court hearing for OJ Simpson and finally "got justice" when OJ went to jail for stealing sports memorabilia he had signed for a guy. Because OJ was guilty even though the courts found him innocent and going to jail for theft is the same as murder. When OJ got out the news was ALL OVER that tiny little town in Nevada (probably wondering where DAFAWK they were) to report on it.

                          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                          Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                          Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                          Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                          *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                           

                          2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                           

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Clarification: If you win all the time people will say you're cheating because they can't seem to beat you. Since they're not beating you and can't figure out any way to beat you, you're obviously cheating. Knowing the rules DON'T say you CAN'T use a substance doesn't make it cheating. It makes you able to think outside the box, instead of staying inside where you focus on what the rules say you can't do. Difference between "I CAN ____ because the rules don't prohibit it" and "The rules say you can't" and the intent....is to win. Since most people aren't there when the rules are being discussed it is impossible to know the intent. Otherwise "shall not be infringed" would mean something.

                             

                            For example: Local race doesn't have rules. I CAN put my arms out, or start running Zs and Ws, to block someone from passing me because there isn't anything against it. The race might say I did something "unethical" an award the runner who couldn't pass me. I'm within the rules of racing and it is not MY fault someone got pissed off because they expected me to let them pass for the overall win in a local 5K. Maybe next time they'll think about someone actively trying to block them in a race for that top 3 age group podium finish.

                             

                            So....first of all.  Brewing - I honestly, seriously respect your position on this, even as I disagree with it.  I'm a big believer that every single person deserves a defense, and am a big fan of those who stick up for unpopular defendants because they perceive something unfair.

                             

                            So yeah, though I disagree with you here, I really appreciate the fact that you are raising these questions.  They need to be asked.

                             

                            As I understand it, your point is that Salazar flew very close to the line defined by USADA as allowed, but did not cross that line,  And your concern is that he is now being held guilty for crossing that line just because he was too close.  I disagree with your assessment.  He did cross the line.

                             

                            On a skim of the report, I see that the charges that were upheld by the panel include:

                            1) Salazar instructing his athletes to conceal some of the activity they had engaged in from USADA, thus subverting the USADA process;

                             

                            2) Salazar, as an "athletic support person" (i.e. coach) distributing a banned substance (testosterone) to third parties without a bona fide medical intent; and

                             

                            3) giving Steve Magness, the assistant coach, an IV infusion of 1000 ml - way above the permitted limit.  The argument here was not whether an infusion below the legal limit still broke the rules, it was whether an infusion that was clearly over the limit but administered to a non-elite athlete broke the rules (and also over whether Salazar was liable, since he didn't actually do the infusion himself).  The panel found that though Magness wasn't an elite athlete at the time, Magness was still a competing athlete, and so the infusion was illegal.  And even though Salazar did not physically administer the infusion, it was at his direction.  Hence the doping violation.

                             

                            These are not "almost violations" - these are violations.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            AmoresPerros


                            Options,Account, Forums

                               

                              Yes. It isn't against the rules to run Zs and Ws in front of you when you try to pass me. Unethical to you, but to me it's called racing. You think we should just let people pass each other because they're faster. I think actively blocking is within the rules of racing. Can you find me a rule where the Olympic distance races don't allow blocking, or even taking a turn wider so your competition has to work harder to get around you? There is a reason the 5K and 10K athletes have to pass on the outside and part of it is the runner ahead of them isn't giving them a free lane to pass on the inside.

                               

                              If it was for 3rd place in the age group and disqualifies me for my actions it isn't against the rules. Someone just didn't think it was right. Just like a 95mL infusion 12 hours and 5 minutes apart. 100% within the rules and it won't prevent people from labeling it unethical.

                               

                              Well, I think there aren't hardly any governing rules in mob road races, so I feel I must concede your point that it isn't against the rules.

                               

                              (It sounds, from further posting, that you weren't aware that it that is indeed against the rules of IAAF etc.)

                               

                              But, it does sound like you're tending to the line of "everything not illegal is ok" -- is that really what you're advocating?

                               

                              Would you advocate that it is okay to lie to a competitor's wife, trying to convince her that her husband is having an affair, in hopes of causing a family scene and throwing off his race the next day, as a tool to beat him? (Or seducing his child, assuming they are of a legal age, for that same purpose?)   Surely there's no rule written against that, and yet surely, most of us normal people would consider that unethical and nasty.

                               

                              I'm not sure if you're advocating that anything, no matter how nasty or evil, is okay to you, or if you are really just playing the devil's advocate and exaggerating your point to try to emphasize the existence of the gray area, that what is ethical does vary from person to person, which makes it not as simple as "following the governing rules", which is supposed to be an objective standard.

                              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                              Brewing Runner


                              CIM FanBoi

                                Gray area with heavy emphasis. I’m not going to try and block you to beat you in a race.

                                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                                Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                                Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                                Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                                *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                                 

                                2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon