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Lengthing one's stride (Read 318 times)

xhristopher


    I am working on pushing away from the ground with more force....hopefully this will increase my stride length without me reaching too far forward with each stride.

    Didn't we read somewhere that we were supposed to hit the ground with more force? I'm confused.

    JimR


       

      That's about as bad as a rick roll.

       

      I always thought Murray Langston was the unknown comic.

      bap


        Didn't we read somewhere that we were supposed to hit the ground with more force? I'm confused.

         

        I don't think that would be a good idea.

        Certified Running Coach
        Crocked since 2013


        Feeling the growl again

          I am working on pushing away from the ground with more force....hopefully this will increase my stride length without me reaching too far forward with each stride.

           

          For any given race distance, a runner has a maximum energy output that they can sustain.  Simply making one's stride length longer, pushing off harder, etc, by itself isn't going to make one finish the race significantly faster because at the end of the day it's your energy output per unit time which has the greatest impact on finishing time.

           

          With fixed energy output per unit time, the only way to get faster without getting fitter is to become more efficient.  Hence my prior comment about not trying to increase stride length; without greater energy output a longer stride will typically just cause you to bound more or over-extend, decreasing efficiency and having the opposite effect.

           

          When I left college as a mid-34 10K runner and about doubled my average mileage, my stride length actually got SHORTER at most paces, especially in training...as I cut 3+ minutes off my 10K.  The most efficient stride is the shortest that works for you at a given speed, as it reduces the vertical component of running...which is wasted energy.

           

          So with the goal of getting faster there is no use concerning one's self with lengthening stride.  Focus on fitness and as you need to go faster and have the fitness for it you will do it automatically.  That said, back to the whole "push off harder" thing, there is one component of this which has always interested me but which I have little real understanding of.  During my fittest and fastest times, running is very smooth and feels almost effortles even as I am at a very high exertion level.  I can remember my best 10K race clicking along mile after mile sub-5 and each stride felt like just a short, quick burst at pushoff followed by a much longer glide phase before the next landing and quick snap of the muscles to launch me off again.  Conversely, in times of less fitness and certainly when I have not been doing enough speed work it feels like I'm muscling through a larger part of the stride, taking longer to apply the force and push off.

           

          I only speculate that well-conditioned, somehow I find an efficiency in fast-twitch or neuromuscular training of slow twitch to provide a quicker, more efficient application of force in the stride.  Out of shape of without speedwork to provide the neuromusclar training I "muscle" my way through the motions.

           

          I don't know if there's anything to that, but the experience was pretty clear to me.  I'm not on board with the dude who used to come on here spouting about running being all about muscle fibers but I certainly believe there is some component to be contributed through neuromuscular training.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

          I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

           

          sport jester


          Biomimeticist

             

              The most efficient stride is the shortest that works for you at a given speed, as it reduces the vertical component of running...which is wasted energy.

            This is why I absolutely love your idiocy....

             

            Show me one study that  shortening stride to reduce  the vertical component of running decreases your energy consumption.

             

            Because you well know I can list a handfull that says your advice is complete BS.

             

            But then again, math never was your specialty, was it....

            Experts said the world is flat

            Experts said that man would never fly

            Experts said we'd never go to the moon

             

            Name me one of those "experts"...

             

            History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong


            Bruno

              How about spelling handful right before criticizing one of the more helpful people on this forum.  Spaniel has actually won races and still posts and responds to anyone needing help.  You have the distinction of being a troll obsessed with ostriches.

              bap


                This is why I absolutely love your idiocy....

                 

                Show me one study that  shortening stride to reduce  the vertical component of running decreases your energy consumption.

                 

                Because you well know I can list a handfull that says your advice is complete BS.

                 

                But then again, math never was your specialty, was it....

                 

                Is this what you are asking for

                 

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7961241?dopt=Abstract

                 

                http://blog.saucony.com/training/stride-rate-running/

                 

                http://www.kihu.fi/tuotostiedostot/julkinen/2007_num_factors_re_10000.pdf

                Certified Running Coach
                Crocked since 2013

                   

                  Rule #1. Don't feed the troll.

                  Rule #2. Don't forget Rule #1

                   

                  In fairness, SJ can't really be considered a troll. He believes in his ideas, and isn't trying to get emotional reactions from people.

                  He just has opinions that most of us don't agree with, or at the very least don't feel are sufficiently supported. The bottom line with sport jester is that I recall claims from him that his method would be significantly more economical, resulting in noticeably faster times. I don't throw out it's impossible, but until I see results with good or elite runners, I'm just not interested. If his method really works well, it shouldn't be difficult at all for him to grab some sub elite guys struggling to make it, or some  "no-name Kenyans" and really get some great results.

                   

                  But until there is real world proof with high level runners I don't have the inclination, or time, to go spending a bunch of time developing something I don't know works beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially when I am going to stick out like a sore thumb doing such.

                  They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                  JimR


                    meh

                    bap


                       

                      In fairness, SJ can't really be considered a troll. He believes in his ideas, and isn't trying to get emotional reactions from people.

                      He just has opinions that most of us don't agree with, or at the very least don't feel are sufficiently supported. The bottom line with sport jester is that I recall claims from him that his method would be significantly more economical, resulting in noticeably faster times. I don't throw out it's impossible, but until I see results with good or elite runners, I'm just not interested. If his method really works well, it shouldn't be difficult at all for him to grab some sub elite guys struggling to make it, or some  "no-name Kenyans" and really get some great results.

                       

                      But until there is real world proof with high level runners I don't have the inclination, or time, to go spending a bunch of time developing something I don't know works beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially when I am going to stick out like a sore thumb doing such.

                       

                      Renato Canova did a lot of work with John Korir (26:52 10K) and Daniel Rono (2:06:52 marathon) to reduce their stride-length, using (15% grade) short hill-sprints with high turnover.

                      Certified Running Coach
                      Crocked since 2013

                      xhristopher


                        This is why I absolutely love your idiocy....

                         

                        Show me one study that  shortening stride to reduce  the vertical component of running decreases your energy consumption.

                         

                        Because you well know I can list a handfull that says your advice is complete BS.

                         

                        But then again, math never was your specialty, was it....

                         

                        You have a way with words and the ease in which you authoritatively convey your research, facts and findings is intoxicating.

                         

                        Please, please, please submit your work to I Fucking Love Science for publication so we can share the stinking shit out of it with our running friends.

                          A weird thing happened when I worked on fixing some hip/glute/hamstring issues.  My average easy run quickly jumped almost 30 seconds faster but my intervals/speed workout gains were low/non-existent.   One would think that both would improve by the same relative percentage (assuming you are not being chased by a T-Rex or riding an Ostrich to Graceland).

                             

                            In fairness, SJ can't really be considered a troll. He believes in his ideas, and isn't trying to get emotional reactions from people.

                             

                            Agree to disagree.

                            Runners run

                              A weird thing happened when I worked on fixing some hip/glute/hamstring issues.  My average easy run quickly jumped almost 30 seconds faster but my intervals/speed workout gains were low/non-existent.   One would think that both would improve by the same relative percentage (assuming you are not being chased by a T-Rex or riding an Ostrich to Graceland).

                               

                              I had a similar experience, though not 30 seconds. Maybe 15-20 seconds on average, and I did see a much smaller increase in my interval/workout paces (and race paces for that matter) as well, though nothing near 15-20 seconds per mile.

                              Runners run

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