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What next - Ultra (50mi) or lots of marathons? (Read 1412 times)

    sorry for the delay, my lazy butt hasn't been on here much lately, or my treadmill for that matter!

     

    I really appreciate those time guidelines, I must admit after reading it the first time I had to look away.  Those are some long runs.  My longest training run as a 20mi and I think it was an 8:20 or 8:30 pace, so no where near that time.  Maybe I'm not cut out for it.  Or maybe I should just try it, getting longer and longer, to see if I can actually do it.  It's great to have this guideline.  I like your enthusiasm, I can't imagine loving that distance!

     

    To the comment about the book, I was about 1/3 through that one on my nook when you posted.  I read most of it, some parts were a little boring.  Definitely worth it, thanks for the recommendation. 

    DoppleBock


      I don't know - I went from a marathon right to a 50M - 2 weeks after a marathon with only marathon specific training and I did fine.  It is all about pacing, eating, drinking and salting.

       

      I feel there are 2 schools of thought on specific training:  1)  Do back to back longish runs (20/15 or 20/20 or 20/10) or 2)  Do longer runs ~ for me menas 30+ miles, but 25 is long.  I also like the thought of doing longer runs by time 4-6 hours.

       

      I like the longer run school of thought.  Once a month do 4 hour run and once a month a 5+ hour run.  That should be enough.  Also add training specific to you race ~ hills, trails etc.

       

      If it is a trail 50 - I like doing long out and back trail runs ~ who the heck cares how far.  Run out for 2 or 2.5 or 3 hours and turn around and come back.  Its more about a nice even effort level that you can maintain the whole way then how fast you are going.  Nothing worse than having 2 hours left and you are toast - cooked and done.  It gets to be a long slog back to the car.  The trails I run on have water available every hour or 2.  Practice eating what you will on race day.

       

      IF weather does not permit and you are mentally wired that way ~ long runs on the TM are ok - not as good as outside, but still really good.

      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

       

      Irun100s


        Hello again Aussie Girl,

         

        Not sure if you received the training program that I found and have used successfully.  Here is the link 50 Mile Training Program

         

        Irun100s

        JimR


          Is this all you can see for options, ultras and mararhons? Whittling down a 5k time or a mile, or cranking out a hot half. .these are all challenging goals.

            I don't know - I went from a marathon right to a 50M - 2 weeks after a marathon with only marathon specific training and I did fine.  It is all about pacing, eating, drinking and salting.

             

            I feel there are 2 schools of thought on specific training:  1)  Do back to back longish runs (20/15 or 20/20 or 20/10) or 2)  Do longer runs ~ for me menas 30+ miles, but 25 is long.  I also like the thought of doing longer runs by time 4-6 hours.

             

             

            That leads me to what was probably my underlying question, whether you need to be able to run that kind of distance week over week before even starting training for a 50mi.  I couldn't do a marathon one month after racing one, let alone two weeks later.  I don't know that i have the toughness I guess.

             

            I've heard that also, I guess a mix of both is good.  I've been working up to doubles and can see huge differences in my overall leg strength.  Or at least could when I was in the peak of my previous marathon training.

              Hello again Aussie Girl,

               

              Not sure if you received the training program that I found and have used successfully.  Here is the link 50 Mile Training Program

               

              Irun100s

               I didn't see that, thank you thank you!  I will take all of the programs and individual training plans I can get.

                Is this all you can see for options, ultras and mararhons? Whittling down a 5k time or a mile, or cranking out a hot half. .these are all challenging goals.

                 For some reason I have zero desire.  I even get bored during a half.  I can't muster up the motivation to really push myself because the distance is so short and do-able.  The 5k I don't like because out of laziness i don't like to push myself that hard.  I may do them to guage where I'm at, or because someone at work decides to put my name down in the corporate challenge, but not because I care to do them.

                 

                I've done our local 'most grueling' half twice now and it's a great race, but I don't even have a desire to do that anymore.  I may not have had amazing results, but I guess they were amazing enough in my mind to say...next.


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  That leads me to what was probably my underlying question, whether you need to be able to run that kind of distance week over week before even starting training for a 50mi.  I couldn't do a marathon one month after racing one, let alone two weeks later.  I don't know that i have the toughness I guess.

                  ...

                   

                  My guess is that that may be a matter of adaptation. 

                   

                  The first time one runs 10 miles, or 20km, or any new long distance, one can be exhausted, sore, and wake up even more sore the next day.

                   

                  Yet some time later, perhaps a year later, one may find oneself having adapted, and able to go run that much distance without any serious problem, and bounce up ready to run again the next day.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                  DoppleBock


                    If you went to a 50 mile trail race - You will see local or regional people that hike / jog the races and have a blast - These people are likely 5+ hour marathoners.  You can do a 50 mile off marathon training if you pace it right.  I am definately not into the back to back long runs (Although 2/3 of people are into them)  I would rather do 1 really long run every 2-3 weeks.  As a poster earlier suggested - Do these based on time and not distance - Specially if you are doing them on the trail.  I tend to switch between a "Longish" run - Say 3-4 hours and a really long run 5-6 hours ... so

                     

                    Week #1 3-4 hours

                    #2 normal marathon training

                    #3 normal marathon training

                    #4 5-6 hours

                    #5 normal marathon training

                    #6 normal marathon training

                    #7 3-4 hours

                     

                    Repeat - I do either 2 weeks apart of 3 weeks apart depending on how they fit into my schedule.  If you are going to do a hilly ultra on trails - try and hit the trails for an easy 60-90 minutes during the week + I would still do 1 speed workout each week.  Other days - easy efforts < = 1 hour (30/45 minutes is fine)  Just do not overthink it. 

                    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                     


                    Queen of 3rd Place

                      My guess is that that may be a matter of adaptation. 

                       

                      The first time one runs 10 miles, or 20km, or any new long distance, one can be exhausted, sore, and wake up even more sore the next day.

                       

                      Yet some time later, perhaps a year later, one may find oneself having adapted, and able to go run that much distance without any serious problem, and bounce up ready to run again the next day.

                       

                      This is very true, after you've done this for awhile your recovery times shorten and you can, for example, run marathons closer and closer together if you want to (unless you're really racing them as opposed to just trotting along at an easy pace), and it becomes easier to add longer training runs midweek. I'm a big believer in those mid-week longish runs.

                      2013 Valley Runner of the Year Series: Feb 16 5K (4 points out of 10) ... Mar 2 10K (20/30)... Mar 16 4Mi (21/30) ... Apr 6 10K (DNS) ... Apr 21 2Mi (5/10) ... May 11 5Mi (21/30)... Jun 8 1Mi (13/20) ... Jun 16 6Mi (22/30) ... Sep 28 10K (14/20) ... Oct 5 5K (7/10) ...Oct 12 5Mi (16/20) ... Oct 20 5K (0/10) = 3rd Place, Women's Senior Division

                        this is some really solid advice, thank you. 

                         

                        I've got a marathon in April, I may play around with these longer doubles and ridiculously long long-runs as I believe there's a gravel 50mi in October/November.  I know the first time you do a 16 it's not pretty, then it's an easy 16 followed by a horrid 2 on top, I wondered whether a 50mi was a continued progression of this or whether some are just not cut out for that distance.  One way to find out I guess. 

                          Screw it, you hear of people who haven't run a half yet sign up for an ultra, what's the worst than can happen?  I get that it could be the worst six hours (no idea how long it will take) of my life, but there's ibuprofin and alcohol.  I'm signing up!

                           

                          Anyway, I didn't see anyone post this, I discovered an ultra lookup page that seems to have a lot more than average

                           

                          http://ultrasignup.com/

                            woah nelly, one of the links you guys gave me says it takes an average of 10 hours the first time. 

                            DoppleBock


                              Time is dependent on the course - I am sure we can all give you courses that I doubt you could ever break 10 hours and others that you should be under 9 for your 1st 50M.

                               

                              My 1st was a pretty hard course - I was in 2:45 marathon shape and ran 7:50 - Missing the win by @ 1 minute.  I have also ran over 9 hours on the same course.

                               

                              In just 3:10 marathon shape I have ran @ 6:50 for a 2 out of 5 for hilliness, but paved 50 miler.

                               

                              For a flat 50M - Take marathon pace and add at least 1 minute per mile ~ 2 minutes per mile if you plan on regular walk breaks.

                               

                              You really cannot convert a technical trail ultra with lots of elevation gain / loss to a road marathon - I am usually pretty darn happy making 6 miles per hour on these kind of trails even when I could run 8 miles per hour on flat road for 50M.

                              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                               

                              DoppleBock


                                Also very dependent on how many trips to the woods to poop.

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                                 

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