2024 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread (Read 183 times)

Marky_Mark_17


     

    Was that Haoting?

     

    The messed up turnaround was "turnaround 3" on the course map at about 32km.  They got directed to turnaround 1 in error.  Clearly at least one of them knew they were going to the wrong turnaround.

     

    Yeah, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about because he's changed his tune a bit now.

     

    It doesn't help that I don't have a very high opinion of him lol.  He signed up to pace Rotorua Marathon a couple of years ago (either 3:00 or 3:30, I can't recall), started despite having shin splints, and had to bail after about 20km or so.  I know most of us know never to trust the pacers unless you actually know them in most NZ races, but IDK, bailing mid-race on people who are relying on you still seems pretty bad to me.  Back in the Takapuna Harriers days he said some comedically stupid things on the group chat too lol.

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

    Up next: Still working on that...

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    Half Crazy K 2.0


      My week:

      Monday upper body strength

      Tuesday 6.7 easy pm lower body strength

      Wednesday am 3 easy pm upper body strength

      Thursday am 6 with 6x200 + 4 x 300

      Friday am 6 with 20 minutes tempo, pm lower body strength

      Saturday 3 easy

      Sunday 3 easy with strides

       

      Played around a but with how I arranged my runs since I do not get up early enough on the weekends to beat the heat. I know in some of Daniel's plans he has back to back quality days, so figured why not give it a try.

       

      mmerkle, sounds like you missed the worst of it. I saw there was an area around Liberty reservoir with a lot of damage. I live within a mile of Gunpowder State Park, I tend to only go there in winter. It's overgrown in the summer and too many bugs, and who knows what else (like snakes).

       

      Mark, runs where you need to do a double take because the pace is faster than expected are so nice.

       

      Steve, the weaving at the end of the race sounds frustrating. I know you switched shoes, I think it was Endorphin Pros to a different Saucony? Do you wear the race shoes for your long runs? Hopefully you have a nice break planned.

       

      Hash, I guess the oblvious runners are universal. I have found that in the smaller races that I prefer, there are fewer. Probably because there is less on course cheering, minimal swag, etc. I also wonder what the point is of running with someone when both have headphones on.

       

      Watson, hope you are feeling better.

       

      James, hearing 98 degrees and not too bad blows my mind. Even with a low dewpoint, that's hot.

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        Mark - I didn't get the impression he was saying it was the first turnaround.  What I don't get is what the marshals at the turnaround were doing.  There were obvious cones and marshals there, it just seems amazing to me that they wouldn't have been there by the time the marathon leaders got there about 1:50 into the race.  I can't remember what that turnaround looked like the first time I went past it though, all I knew that it was where all the half runners were turning the second time.  The half leader would have been 15 mins or so away from getting to that turnaround when the marathon leaders got there though.

         

        Turnaround 2 wasn't at the start/finish, it was about 1km before that point which is why the first turnaround was further out.

         

        Even if the leaders hadn't yelled at the lead bike, I'd put 80% of the blame on the officials.  Given that they did, I'm going with 99% of the blame.  If the cones and signage weren't there, you'd have no way of knowing exactly where you're supposed to turn.

         

        I think they also need marshals all along Cobham Drive telling half runners to keep left.  I should note that at least half of them either did keep left or moved when they heard you coming.  A lot also yelled support which was really nice.

         

        Half Crazy - Yep, I went with Saucony Tempus which I used for long runs.

        5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

         

        2024 Races:

        Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

        Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

        Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

        Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

        Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

        Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

        Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          I should note that Haoting ran the race so will have a pretty good idea of how the course was set up.

          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

           

          2024 Races:

          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

          Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

          Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

          Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

          Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

          Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

          Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

          Marky_Mark_17


            I should note that Haoting ran the race so will have a pretty good idea of how the course was set up.

             

            Trust me, if you had been on that Takapuna Harriers group chat you would struggle to believe he had any good ideas about anything.

             

             

            Even if the leaders hadn't yelled at the lead bike, I'd put 80% of the blame on the officials.  Given that they did, I'm going with 99% of the blame.  If the cones and signage weren't there, you'd have no way of knowing exactly where you're supposed to turn.

             

             

            To be clear, I think 100% of the blame rests with the officials in the circumstances. I just don't think that should then become a fallback for runners to blame any course error on poor marshalling.  Haoting was inferring that elite runners going at 3:00/km should somehow be escorted around the course because they're going so fast their brains don't work.  Aside from that being patently untrue for elite runners who likely spend MORE time looking at the course map to figure out their race strategy, it also suggests that it's somehow different for a slower runner who might still nevertheless be working right at the limits of their capacity.   That was probably the bit that annoyed me, the inference that somehow lead runners are somehow exempt from knowing the course because they're elite.

             

            To be blunt, I've been at or near the front in races and I knew exactly where I was going because I knew the race might depend on it.  The one time I made a course error was back in 2018, it was my own fault because I followed the guy in front of me.  Luckily it didn't cost me anything but lesson learned.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

            Up next: Still working on that...

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Yep, I definitely agree that it's silly to say a runner could never be blamed for a course error.  In this case though, I think we agree clearly who is at fault.

               

              I think that mental fatigue argument does apply to everyone in the field, and race directors should be doing what they can to make sure runners who have been going 30km+ should have to do the least thinking possible (and here's a novel idea, NOT having to weave through slower runners on a narrow path where there is a 1 foot drop to a garden if you step off).  But I also agree that you should have a pretty good understanding of the course whether you're at the front or not.  At my first Park Run I went to the first timers briefing and studied the map especially hard because I knew it was possible I'd be close to the front.  As it turned out I was second, about 10 seconds behind the leader which was perfect for not having to think in those sucky last 2km.

               

              Haoting seems like an interesting guy.  If he is who I think he is, he's turned up to the start line in ChCh and Wellington with no shirt on for Autumn/Winter races.  So he's clearly somewhat deranged.

              5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

               

              2024 Races:

              Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

              Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

              Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

              Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

              Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

              Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

              Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

              Marky_Mark_17


                 

                Haoting seems like an interesting guy.  If he is who I think he is, he's turned up to the start line in ChCh and Wellington with no shirt on for Autumn/Winter races.  So he's clearly somewhat deranged.

                 

                Yep, that's him.  Add Rotorua to that list (it was about 5 degrees at the start).

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                Up next: Still working on that...

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                   

                  To be clear, I think 100% of the blame rests with the officials in the circumstances. I just don't think that should then become a fallback for runners to blame any course error on poor marshalling.  Haoting was inferring that elite runners going at 3:00/km should somehow be escorted around the course because they're going so fast their brains don't work.  Aside from that being patently untrue for elite runners who likely spend MORE time looking at the course map to figure out their race strategy, it also suggests that it's somehow different for a slower runner who might still nevertheless be working right at the limits of their capacity.   That was probably the bit that annoyed me, the inference that somehow lead runners are somehow exempt from knowing the course because they're elite.

                    

                  I think the biggest issue for those commenting on social media (who were not actually affected with this SNAFU) is that there wasn't, as far as I know, any kind of official comment about it. If the race organisers had come out straight away and made an announcement along the lines of "Yeah, we messed up. We didn't brief our lead cyclist as well as we should have, and we our signage should have been better"  then maybe everyone would have understood why it happened. When there's a vacuum of knowledge from leaders, there are plenty of people out there ready to fill that vacuum with their own ideas.

                   

                  Steve - What was your experience with the special drink stations?

                  50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                  2024 Goals: Road/Track 10km Sub 38:00 - 5km Sub 18:30

                   

                   

                  watsonc123


                    It's just as as hard for the mid to slower runners.

                     

                    It is possibly hardest for someone who's having a huge fade.

                     

                    The marshals at turn around three also should have pointed out to the bike that this was the turn around too.

                     

                    It was a really bad stuff up.

                     

                    Several people running the half, knew Ed was running the full (first over the line, downgraded to fourth).  And saw the strange sight of him being ahead of the lead bike

                     

                    I've seen Hoating at several races.  By memory he was at Hawkes Bay Full 2023, topless at the start when it was roughly 3 degrees Celsius.

                    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                     

                    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                     

                    2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                     

                    2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                    Half Crazy K 2.0


                      That sounds so messy with the race. I'd think they may need to just declare 2 winners along with a lot of apologies. At least the officials do seem to be taking responsibility. I've seen ones that seem to lean into the runners' responsibility to know the course and forget there is usually something in the waiver about following directions of course officials.

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        Hash - The race director commented on the original Facebook post saying not to blame volunteers, blame him for not preparing them properly.

                         

                        The special drinks weren't what I expected.  At Christchurch if they see a marathon bib someone in front of the aid station yells the number and they quickly find the drink.  As I approached the first one in Wellington I quickly discovered I had to find it myself.  It was okay, mine were obviously labelled with a gel attached with a rubber band.  Overall it was fine though, once I knew I had to find it myself.  If they'd all been identical and you had to find your race number on it, it would have been a debacle.

                        5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

                         

                        2024 Races:

                        Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                        Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

                        Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

                        Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

                        Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

                        Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                        Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

                        watsonc123


                          Chch special drinks were excellent.

                          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                           

                          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                           

                          2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                           

                          2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Put my application in to pace the sub-1:30 half marathon at Auckland this year.  I'm really hoping to get it - Auckland HM 2015 was kinda where it all started for me with a goal of running sub-1:30 (things kind of escalated from there!!) so it'd be nice to help some others get there too. 

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                            Up next: Still working on that...

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              Hash - The race director commented on the original Facebook post saying not to blame volunteers, blame him for not preparing them properly.

                               

                              The special drinks weren't what I expected.  At Christchurch if they see a marathon bib someone in front of the aid station yells the number and they quickly find the drink.  As I approached the first one in Wellington I quickly discovered I had to find it myself.  It was okay, mine were obviously labelled with a gel attached with a rubber band.  Overall it was fine though, once I knew I had to find it myself.  If they'd all been identical and you had to find your race number on it, it would have been a debacle.

                               

                               Steve - I did see the RD's FB post, but to me that doesn't really explain how an experienced RD doesn't prep his team property. This is not an insignificant error.

                               

                              The reason I asked about the special drinks was that I'm closely connected to the group that were manning the drink stations (who are just parents from our local playcentre - the only runner in the group being me). I'm a little surprised that the race offer's that service and yet obviously failed to brief the actual runners using it on what to expect. The drink stationers were only told that the marathoners would find their own special drinks (I did have a chat with one of the parents the previous night who was a little worried about how this was going to work). Interestingly, their feedback was similar to yours - often times they were holding out drinks for marathoners only for a walker or shorter distance runner to cut in and grab it. It kinda seems that a lot more could be done to brief runners on certain aspects of the race.

                              50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                              2024 Goals: Road/Track 10km Sub 38:00 - 5km Sub 18:30

                               

                               

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                Mark - That should be great fun, I might look to pace the Selwyn Running Festival again in November.

                                 

                                Hash - That's interesting that the people on the table knew but we didn't.  The first table I got to someone said "marathon drinks on the last table" but every other time I had to work out which table it was before working out which drink.  It didn't slow me down much, Kate who I was running with just grabbed a standard drink and was only a couple of metres ahead after each station so I could easily get back.  The congestion is my main issue, I'd be interested to know if half and 10km runners were briefed to keep left.  A guy in my coaching group did the half and had similar problems with the 10km runners that I had with the half, although it can't have been quite as bad because the 10km didn't go to Cobham Drive.

                                5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

                                 

                                2024 Races:

                                Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                                Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

                                Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

                                Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

                                Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

                                Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                                Timaru Ten October 26, 2024