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A question for owners of aggressive dogs (Read 1442 times)


Right on Hereford...

    I was enjoying my Saturday morning run today at the reservoir. Lots of people out in the beautiful sunshine and 50-degree weather. Suddenly, a dog came running at me, snarling and barking. I was in no mood to let it sink its sharp teeth into my calf muscle, so I gave it a good, swift kick to the middle, and it ran away. Meanwhile, the dog's owner went absolutely off his rocker. He charged toward me, screaming and no doubt intending to do me bodily harm. "I can't believe you just kicked my dog, you fucking asshole!" he yelled. I picked up my pace to stay a few steps away from his flailing arms as he tried to grab me. "I was just defending myself," I said, jogging along in front of him. "He's just a puppy," the man cried. He was practically sobbing in spite of his rage. "What kind of person would kick a 5-month-old puppy?" The dog, by the way, was reasonably large, did not look like a puppy at all, and certainly had sharp teeth. "Why don't you teach him not to run at people while growling and barking?" I asked. The man was still trying to chase me, but he was tiring quickly. It occurred to me that the dog's aggression mirrored its owner's. As the man fell further behind me, still cursing and screaming at me, I turned back for a last look and noticed that he was holding a dog leash. "Why don't you put your dog on a fucking leash?" I said. "He's certainly not under voice and sight control." The dog was now about 400 yards away from its owner. Dogs in this area, by the way, are allowed to be off-leash only if they have passed a special Voice and Sight Control training class, and are wearing a city-issued green tag to prove it. At this point, the man decided he was not going to be able to catch me, and optimistically made me a friendly offer: "Hey buddy, do you want to stop and talk about it?" Um, you just tried to chase me down and beat the shit out of me, and now you want me to come back and discuss it with you? No thanks. I ignored him and continued my run. So, my question for dog owners who may be reading this: what would you have done if you were the owner of the dog in this story, and why?
      I wouldn't let my collie off his leash in the first place. He doesn't snap, but he barks and jumps on people. There's no excuse for that!
        Ever since Christmas, dogs have been a fear of mine after a run where I was literally chased with the intent to make me Pedigree, by five different dogs. Last week, I was in Nashville running on one of the Greenways. I saw an older couple with a dog - not on a leash - and I got a bit shaky as any dog not on a leash as of late is a prime candidate of a vicious attack IMO. The owner simply called the dogs name and told it to sit, and it listened, to which I thanked him and continued my run. I love dogs and don't ever want to harm one, but I think you were spot on. If a dog is going to try to threaten me, as of late (within reason) I've been ready to stick my foot in the dogs head if it shows its teeth. If someone can't control their dog without a leash, they either need to get a leash, or get rid of the dog. It's like people who drive in the snow - if you can't control your car in the snow - don't drive.


        jules2

          I know exactly how you feel I had a rottweiller come for me and just veer off at the last moment. The owner said it was only playing and seemed amazed that I was upset, he then started on my wife who was on her bike and accused her of riding on a footpath when its actually a long distance cycle route. Two good quotes are Theres no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner. No wonder your dogs not near you its embarassed to have you as an owner. You have found the same as me dog owners can't run so you can afford to be brave.

          Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.

          OverAnalyzer


            Yikes! I feel bad for you and for the puppy. Obviously you felt threatened or you wouldn't have done what you did. And the dog obviously has drawn the short straw on owners.... I own two ginormous obnoxious canines. They are not dangerous in the least (unless you try to pick up the 80 lber...then she gets ticked and nippy). BUT I live a a neighbor hood of dogs and I have felt exactly as you have several times. Thankfully something/someone has always intervened before I had to physically encounter the dog. But I have a dog about 3 blocks away that I KNOW wants to eat my son. He is SO vicious spirited. And i know the difference, generally speaking, between barking and Barking, And if he ever got close enough to pose a legitimate threat to my child...you can bet he'd get a swift kick (or worse!) Anyway, to answer your question, I think IF I had been that owner w/my obviously untrained dog off its leash, I'd have been apologizing and hoping the dog didn't nip you, etc....and apologizing. BUT the problem with this question is that anyone who would have done those things probably wouldn't have taken an untrained dog off its leash, you know? My dogs are terrible on the leash. I have suffered some serious shoulder jerking from the one anytime she sees a squirrel. But I know this about her...and I don't take her out to places where she is going to cause trouble. Honestly, my biggest fear w/my dogs is that they are going to get too crazy on a trail and cross right in front of a bicyclist or runner who wasn't expecting it, and cause a big pileup. So we only run at home or at the dog park. They are too big.


            Hey, nice marmot!

              So, the dog tries to attack you, you kick the dog, and then the owner tries to attack you? You should have kicked the owner in the middle as well. Then again, the dog certainly would have been able to catch you, the owner, clearly not so much. It may make me a bad person, but your story did make me chuckle. The mental picture of a guy literally trying to chase you down and beat you up, and failing so quickly, it would seem. Then again, I suppose 1/10 of a mile at a 7:00 pace can take the fight out of a lot of people. His attempted negotiation to get you to stop was priceless. How to win friends and influence people indeed! IMO, you did the sensible thing. I personally carry pepper spray on my long runs for just such and occasion, although your method will also work when it's windy. As to your question, I don't care much for dogs, so I really can't put myself in the position of an aggressive dog owner. However, I would hope that if I ever were to own a dog, aggressive or not, I would keep it on a leash, for the sake of those around me. Personally, I think it's cool to consider others sometimes. Sorry it happened to you, but great story nonetheless.

              Ben

               

              "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens


              A Dance with Monkeys

                Despite some of the discourse on another thread, and this is coming from a life long dog owner, when a dog is coming at you baring its teeth, you MUST defend yourself. There are a hundred reasons why the dog may be chasing you, some benign and some nefarious. You cannot assume that doggy is coming to play. You have several choices for stopping the dog, and they all require you to place yourself clearly, quickly and decidedly in the alpha position. You can STOP, stare straight into the dog's eyes and scream or fake bark (this is what I do, it works 100% of the time); you can wait for the dog to get into your arm's range and hit or kick it (preferably just hard enough to stop it, often a smack to the snout will suffice), or you can grab the dog by its neck and throw your weight down on it. The last one is really to be reserved for dogs that won't stop and have already bitten you. This method is how wild dog pack leaders assert their alphaness. The first option, as I said, usually works well and won't piss off baddogowner. The other two methods will not make you friends, but will protect you. To your question, I would have been utterly horrified if I lost control of my dog that way and would have considered kicking her too, right after I kicked myself. Wink


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  I generally turn and shout as loud as I can at the dog, because I usually don't have a weapon with me. I'd like to someday find something metal and telescoping, with which to swing as hard as I can at any dog that charges me -- with the intent to hit it and break (or interfere with) the potential attack. When the dog is charging me, I think there is not time to attempt to distinguish the dog's intent -- I suspect there is a very short window in which to prevent it from getting its teeth in (and possibly putting me into the hospital). I've had a couple owners look sad and say, but it's just a puppy, when I shouted "bad dog" as loud as I could at their dogs. I suppose when I have a weapon and use that, they're going to react even more negatively.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                  Imminent Catastrophe

                    I would have been extremely embarrassed and would have profusely apologized. I run past a couple of houses that have obnoxious dogs that chase me sometimes. One house has two beagles that charge me but stop at the property line, and I know them well enough so it doesn't bother me so much, they're doing their jobs. However, they had puppies who are now old enough so they chase after me and don't stop. Right into the road. So today I ran past with Daisy (75-lb Doberman) on a leash, of course, and they came after me, and I pepper sprayed them. Just a bit, just enough to make them stop and think about it. Yes, I pepper sprayed puppies. They are almost adult size, however. And it worked, on my return trip they kept their distance and stayed on their yard. These dogs learned a valuable lesson today. This was good for them. First, they learned not to chase me, which means I (and other passers-by) will probably not have to worry about them from now on. Two, these young dogs were running into the road when they went after me. Maybe I've prevented them from getting hit by a car. Their irresponsible owners certainly haven't done anything.

                    "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                     "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                    "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                     

                    √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

                    Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

                    Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014

                      Well, I don't own an aggressive dog, but I do own an 80lb. rottie / pit mix that scares the bejeesus out of many people. For this reason, he doesn't go off leash EVER. I think you had every right to defend yourself and I've done the same when defending me and my dog. He's been attacked by an aggressive yorkie, a shih tzu , and a pug. How's that for irony?


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        Well, I don't own an aggressive dog, but I do own an 80lb. rottie / pit mix that scares the bejeesus out of many people. For this reason, he doesn't go off leash EVER. I think you had every right to defend yourself and I've done the same when defending me and my dog. He's been attacked by an aggressive yorkie, a shih tzu , and a pug. How's that for irony?
                        Did you let him defend himself against them? How'd it work out in those three cases?

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                          Two, these young dogs were running into the road when they went after me. Maybe I've prevented them from getting hit by a car. Their irresponsible owners certainly haven't done anything.
                          This reminds me of a story from Thanksgiving. I was running at the fiance's family's house...I have a three mile loop there that I USED to run. I was running by a house that always has lots of dogs and I've never had any problem with them (there are usually about 6 dogs in the yard). I noticed a van coming toward me, and it politely moved into the other lane to give me enough room. As it approached, I heard a bark and saw this stupid dog come running at me. As it dove over the ditch separating its yard from the road, in midair it met the front of the van's tire and went flying into the ditch. I happened to look back and saw its leg flopping from what I am assuming was the nerves. It shook me up, because I obviously wouldn't want that to happen to any family's dog, but the other side of me was saying, "Well, that's what happens when you don't control your dogs..." Thus, Christmas day I was running there again, and the remaining 5 dogs came and chased me, one of which got on his hind legs and showed his teeth whenever I stopped and turn to sprint. It blows my mind that some people are either a.) so inconsiderate or b.) so stupid that they don't control their dogs.
                          xor


                            <tangent> I have been chased by dogs before. Not as much in Seattle. Lots in Texas. Especially when running before sun-up. Good way to get in some speedwork, I suppose. But I have also been tripped by on-leash dogs. Actually, much more often. Especially people that use those expanding/zippy line leashes that go out 12-16 feet. I am running by and the dog decides to cross the path in front of me, while the owner is oblivious that this might be a problem. BAM. Man down! Man down! Or, you get right next to the leashed dog on the crowded path, and he lunges for you. YOIPS! (I suppose this is one of those things like ipods and cellphones. They are bad, but you can always find someone doing the 'correct thing' and something else bad can happen. Anyway, outside of my own yard or the dog park, my dogs are ALWAYS leashed... and aggressive dogs are bad bad experiences, always) Ok then,</tangent>

                             

                              Did you let him defend himself against them? How'd it work out in those three cases?
                              Yorkie: he kinda picked it up and flung it away, but when the yorkie came back I kicked him away. Eventually the owner grabbed him. Shih-tzu (sp?) : my dog had him pinned for a few seconds. Then the owner came running so I pulled my dog away and the owner grabbed the shih tzu. I should add, this interaction began very politely, they were both sniffing, then the shih tzu bit my dog's snout. And the reason this shih tzu was running amuck around the neighborhood was b/c his owner dropped the damn flexi lead. I hate those things too Senor Lopez. Evil grin Pug: I gave him a slight kick away and yoked my dog up before any pinning or flinging could happen. It's a really scary position for us to be in. In each instance my dog was provoked but if he had injured or killed any one of these dogs while defending himself it would turn into a media frenzy because of his breed and I'm sure he'd be euth'd without a moment's hesitation. It makes me feel better knowing that he really could've snapped anyone of those dogs in seconds flat and didn't. I believe that's called bite inhibition and it's a good quality for him to have!
                                I was enjoying my Saturday morning run today at the reservoir. Lots of people out in the beautiful sunshine and 50-degree weather. Suddenly, a dog came running at me, snarling and barking. I was in no mood to let it sink its sharp teeth into my calf muscle, so I gave it a good, swift kick to the middle, and it ran away. Meanwhile, the dog's owner went absolutely off his rocker. He charged toward me, screaming and no doubt intending to do me bodily harm. "I can't believe you just kicked my dog, you fucking asshole!" he yelled. I picked up my pace to stay a few steps away from his flailing arms as he tried to grab me. "I was just defending myself," I said, jogging along in front of him. "He's just a puppy," the man cried. He was practically sobbing in spite of his rage. "What kind of person would kick a 5-month-old puppy?" The dog, by the way, was reasonably large, did not look like a puppy at all, and certainly had sharp teeth. "Why don't you teach him not to run at people while growling and barking?" I asked. The man was still trying to chase me, but he was tiring quickly. It occurred to me that the dog's aggression mirrored its owner's. As the man fell further behind me, still cursing and screaming at me, I turned back for a last look and noticed that he was holding a dog leash. "Why don't you put your dog on a fucking leash?" I said. "He's certainly not under voice and sight control." The dog was now about 400 yards away from its owner. Dogs in this area, by the way, are allowed to be off-leash only if they have passed a special Voice and Sight Control training class, and are wearing a city-issued green tag to prove it. At this point, the man decided he was not going to be able to catch me, and optimistically made me a friendly offer: "Hey buddy, do you want to stop and talk about it?" Um, you just tried to chase me down and beat the shit out of me, and now you want me to come back and discuss it with you? No thanks. I ignored him and continued my run. So, my question for dog owners who may be reading this: what would you have done if you were the owner of the dog in this story, and why?
                                I was bitten by a dog that was wagging her tail and looked like she wanted me to play with her. I reached down to pet her and she chomped on my arm. Since then, I could give a shit about the dog or owner, if it appears aggressive it is going to get a foot full and more. If the dog actually gets me, the OWNER is getting a date in the court room. I am so tired of asshole owners that get mad when THEIR badly behaved dog goes after somebody. If I am on public roads/property, I should expect dog owners to protect me from their beasts.
                                Sam Edmond, Oklahoma 2009 Goals: 1. 1/2 Marathon (DONE Jan 2) 2. Hike to the top of Horn Peak, CO (13,450 ft) in July 3. Run a full marathon by the end of 2009 4. Keep running and no significant injuries 5. Run at least 1500 miles for the year 6. Play more golf with a stroke average in the 70's
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